The finalists for the Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2010 were announced on Friday, with three first-year eligible players heading the group:
Jerry Rice – Wide Receiver – 1985-2000 San Francisco 49ers, 2001-04 Oakland Raiders, 2004 Seattle Seahawks
Emmitt Smith – Running Back – 1990-2002 Dallas Cowboys, 2003-04 Arizona Cardinals
Tim Brown – Wide Receiver/Kick Returner – 1988-2003 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders, 2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Cris Carter – Wide Receiver – 1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins
Don Coryell – Coach – 1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers
Roger Craig – Running Back – 1983-1990 San Francisco 49ers, 1991 Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-93 Minnesota Vikings
Dermonti Dawson – Center – 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers
Richard Dent – Defensive End – 1983-1993, 1995 Chicago Bears, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1996 Indianapolis Colts, 1997 Philadelphia Eagles
Russ Grimm – Guard – 1981-1991 Washington Redskins
Charles Haley – Defensive End/Linebacker – 1986-1991, 1999 San Francisco 49ers, 1992-96 Dallas Cowboys
Rickey Jackson – Linebacker – 1981-1993 New Orleans Saints, 1994-95 San Francisco 49ers
Cortez Kennedy – Defensive Tackle – 1990-2000 Seattle Seahawks
John Randle – Defensive Tackle – 1990-2000 Minnesota Vikings, 2001-03 Seattle Seahawks
Andre Reed – Wide Receiver – 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins
Shannon Sharpe – Tight End – 1990-99, 2002-03 Denver Broncos, 2000-01 Baltimore Ravens
A few names from our original guess at the 2010 Hall of Fame finalists were left off of the list–most noticeably first year cornerback Aeneas Williams and former commissioner Paul Tagliabue, along with Terrell Davis (which might make sense, given the inclusion of one questionable Bronco running back on the ballot), and my wildcard Art Modell (any Cleveland fans reading the board can breathe a sigh of relief).
Making the finalist list in their place were Roger Craig, Rickey Jackson, Charles Haley and Don Coreyell.
Tagliabue was the only 2009 finalist not to make this year’s cut, which is a rare occurrence from my limited research–one wonders if the current labor situation, combined with some of the alleged performance enhancement usage and the comparatively strong policies enacted by current commissioner Roger Goodell led to Tagliabue falling in the eyes of voters.
As for those projections, I’m actually not going to change my list–I think in a rare year where you have arguably the best RB of all time in Smith, and the arguably best player of all time in Rice, it wouldn’t be surprising to see a small class get elected–so I’ll stick with Rice, Smith, Sharpe and Dawson. (If I were being forced to pick a new #5 inductee, I’d go with John Randle–or possibly Haley, or maybe even Kennedy–but definitely a defensive player).
I also suspect that just one of the senior candidates will make it–and I suspect it will be LeBeau getting in on his coaching credentials.
What does the Zoneblitz audience think of the finalist list? Who will make it? Put your guess in the comments below–if enough people make guesses, we might just come up with a prize for the person who is closest…
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I think that you are right on with your first three choices of Smith, Rice and Sharpe. But I think that the OL getting in this year will be Grimm and not Dawson, mainly because folks will think that it basically is his turn. The Hogs aren’t getting younger and none of what many believe is the greatest OL in history are in the Hall. I think this is Grimm’s year. Dawson, who in my opinion should have been a first ballot guy, is going to have to wait another year.
That leaves 1 spot, which despite Richard Dent deserving the spot (or Charles Haley another player I don’t understand why it has taken him this long to get in, oh wait yes I do, a HOF All QB class in 2005), I think it goes to Don Coryell. He of the 111-83 career record with 0 SB victories. Because he is 85 years old and it took him so long to get this far in the process. This is going to be like Hank Stram’s in 2003, now or never.
So with both senior candidates going through (LeBeau is a shoo in, particularly with his coordinating credentials and whether Little is deserving or not, he’s a Bronco, the most underrepresented team in the HOF which will carry some weight), your class is…
Jerry Rice
Emmitt Smith
Shannon Sharpe
Russ Grimm
Don Coryell
Dick LeBeau
Floyd Little
While I studied the list for this year the only thing I could think about was the fact that there is no way the voters should let Rice and Smith share the spotlight with a big crowd. You have not only the best players at their respective positions but arguably 2 of the top 5 players of all-time, period. I am going to go out on a limb and say the Hall only goes with 4 this year and put Sharpe in, who at the time of his retirement was in the top 10 all-time in receptions while dominating his position statistically and arguably the best TE in the Hall until Gonzalez and/or Gates gets there. Sharpe is more than deserving in comparison to all other TE’s already there. It is interesting how little respect TE’s had gotten from voters throughout history and almost insulting that the quickest one there was Kellen Winslow and then they voted in Charlie Sanders who may be the most undeserving member in the Hall. That Winslow got in before Newsome should have been a crime. Winslow played more than 10 games in only 5 of his 9 seasons and amassed well more than half of his Receptions, Yards, and Touchdowns during 3 very good seasons (one of which ended with an Oscar nomination for Winslow’s “tired” acting job against the Dolphins) but in two of those seasons Fouts threw the ball 600 times. Placing Sanders (Charley that is–maybe they thought they were voting for Barry twice) in is unforgivable. I would have to check a lot of stats but I would not be far off in saying that the 4th or 5th best TE in the AFC during his same playing career is statistically equivalent or better (probably Trumpy or Barkum). In fact, I remember my Dad complaining that Bob Tucker was better than Sanders and the stats back him up.
The other one I think gets in is Dick Lebeau. I am not old enough to have seen him play but know he was considered a real hard-nosed player, sure tackler and had a nose for the ball. While his playing career looks impressive with the 60+ int’s (I am sure those Detroit D’s spent a lot of time on the field) his biggest contribution has been coaching. I did not see him play but I am more than familiar with his coaching. He has been a part of 5 (maybe 6) Super Bowl coaching staffs and D Coordinator for 4 of those.
The reasoning behind these choices is a little different than you might think. By voting in Rice, Smith and Sharpe you have arguably the 3 best players in history at their position at the time of their retirement. There is a lack of defense in my choices for good reason. The candidates on D are Haley, Dent, Jackson, Kennedy, and Randle (who all played during the tenure of the 3 mentioned above). While all these guys (except Kennedy) will probably get in somewhere down the road can you say which one stands out? They ALL had significant team failures against the offensive players above. Sure Dent’s 85 Bears had success against Rice’s Niners but that was short lived, Haley had great games with and against both the Cowboys and the Niners but also suffered big losses, Randle had a very distinguished career but played in very few meaningful games (maybe 3 or 4 playoff games) and the two I remember most he was a no show (’00 Giants 41-0–and ’98 Anderson choke), Jackson was the same (although he did get a “courtesy ring” as a Niner in’94), and Kennedy should not even be mentioned with these guys. Michael Dean Perry had as good of a career as this guy.
The bottom line is – while playing against these guys Rice and Smith amassed a total of 45,000 yards (Number 1 and 2 all-time) and 380 TD’s (Number 1 and 2 all-time) and Sharpe added 800 rec., 10000 yards and 60+ TD’s. While I know it is not fair to hold these guys solely responsible for these 3 players accomplishments it would not be fair for these 3 to share a stage with any of their counterparts.
Part of the reason LeBeau goes in (as he deserves) is that it does not interfere with these 3 being recognized as truly the best players in their era and arguably history at their position.
Here are my picks:
WR Jerry Rice
RB Emmitt Smith
C: Dermonti Dawson
TE: Shannon Sharpe
DE: Richard Dent
DB: Dick LeBeau
I like your picks Brad. Those might be the six. :)
I’d prefer Charles Haley over Dent.
Charles Haley is a fine pick. I just think Richard Dent has waited a good amount of time.
Richard Dent was a big part of the Bears Defense in the 1980’s. He has 137.5 sacks vs Haley’s 100.5. He has led the NFL in sacks in 1985 with 17.0. He has 2 seasons with 17+ sacks. Haley had a season with 16.0 sacks and 12.5 sacks in another. For what it’s worth, Dent has 8 Int’s as a DE vs Haley’s 2 Ints as a LB/DE. Dent has 677 tackles vs Haley’s 498 tackles. Dent has a Super Bowl MVP. I understand Haley has 5 rings. But thats mostly a team award. SB MVP is an individual award. And the HOF is about the individual, not what team he was on. Charles Haley and Richard will both make the HOF IMO
The reasons why i picked Jerry Rice, Emmitt Smith, Dermonti Dawson, Shannon Sharpe, Richard Dent, and Dick LeBeau:
Jerry Rice: If I were to list half of his accomplishments, It would be forever. Enough said.
Emmitt Smith: Read what I wrote for Jerry Rice.
Dermonti Dawson: He has 7 Pro Bowls, along with 6 1st Team All Pros. He barley missed games for the most part. He was the successor of Mike Webster(Hall of Famer).
Shannon Sharpe: He was regarded as one of the greatest TE’s ever to play. He made 8 Pro Bowls. He has 3 Super Bowl Rings. At the time of retirement, he held virtually every TE record. He was a great blocker.
Richard Dent: Read above if you haven’t already.
Dick LeBeau: He had 63 Int’s which ranked somewhere around 4th all time at the time of retirement. The only players ahead of him are in the HOF( Dick Night Train Lane, Paul Krause, and Emlen Tunnell). His career AV is 83 which is 304th all time since 1950. I guess thats good? I don’t know. Plus, its been over 30 years since he played. I think you induct him because he was a work horse, and the younger guys will have a chance to get in. But, you induct the veterans first.
Do you know who was beating LeBeau for all of the Pro Bowls and All-Pros in the 60’s?? Might be more justification if there were two or three really great players beating him out every year. Like the WR position in the 90’s with Jerry Rice. He was a lock for one spot every year. Doesn’t mean other great WR with HOF ability weren’t playing.
My theory is that LeBeau had such a great Defense in front of him that the pressure led to many of ints. If you have a QB under pressure all the time you can play a little more centerfied as ducks and poor throws come your way. Also who played opposite LeBeau? They must of thrown on him a lot for him to get all of those ints. Maybe he wasn’t the best cover guy. I’m just playing devils advocate. 3 PB’s aren’t many. You would think he’d get 1 AP along the way. He was only a 5th rd pick.
Krause was an 8/3 and Tunnel was a 9/4 and clearly deserving of the HOF. Even at that Krause waited forever. LeBeau played half of his career in the Detroit secondary alongside two great HOFers in one of the scariest hitters of all-time in Dick Night train Lane 7/3 and the versatile Yale Lary 9/3. No doubt LeBeau got a lot of noteriety playing beside the HOFer for 7 years. Are we going to have 3 HOFers from the same secondary. That might be a first? If Lebeau gets in what about Jake Scott and Dick Anderson? Ints make that big a difference? Yale Lary only had 50 ints. No doubt with two HOFers in the secondary that LeBeau was getting picked on all the time. I wonder how many times he got burned in his first 4 or 5 years?
You know I believe Johnny Robinson with his 57 ints was a much better player than LeBeau. :) He was drafted number 3 in the 1st rd by the Lions a year later. Of course he was a Halfback than and not a CB until later. He played both ways for LSU and was a great athlete. I don’t want LeBeau to get in but maybe I should if it help Johnny to make it.
If Richard Dent is HOF he should give all due credit to a system where all interior players needed to get double teamed and he did not. The strength of all those D’s were McMichael, Perry and Singletary. Singletary (as an ILB or MLB) and McMichael took on more double teams as well as their interior linemen which enabled Dent playing strongside stand-up to have the career he did. In my opinion McMichael needs to be alongside Dent in the Hall because double-teaming him allowed Dent to have the career he had. Just my opinion. Tackles today do not have nearly the impact (or stats) they did because teams give up on the run game and throw more short passes to avoid animals (in a good sense) in the middle.
I am still under the belief that no D players from this era should go in with this class. Rice, Smith and Sharpe deserve a stage of their own and LeBeau is a nice touch for sentimentals. If any group deserved a short class it is this one.
While you were talking about Lebeau and mentioned he had Night Train Lane and Yale Larry along with a good front 7– that only covered half his career. Lem Barney more than “covered” the second half of his career. Lebeau had 30 of those int’s between ’67 and ’71. Barney had 35 during the same period. Wow! Has there ever been 2 players with 65 int’s in a 5 year period in the same defensive backfield? That being said, I think you need to give credit where credit is due, Lebeau and Barney saw more “action” playing in those secondaries than Karras’s and Hornung’s bookie. They must have risen to the task at hand.
I don’t know where the idea that Shannon Sharpe was a good blocker comes from. Not only was he not a good blocker, he clearly didn’t like to do so and thought it was beneath him. Here are his thoughts on the subject:
“You don’t make any money if you block. They call you a servant if you block. You make minimum plus tips.”
Source:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1024197/index.htm
That being said, I think he belongs in the HoF, and may get elected as early as this year. The TEs in the HoF all have a specialty in pass catching relative to their era’s norms — and some could block pretty well while others weren’t much in that department. There’s plenty of good precedent for Shape being elected.
Am not clear as to why Charles Haley is a better HoF LB pick than Kevin Greene or Rickey Jackson. And please leave the “5 Super Bowl rings” argument at home, as no defensive player has gotten that kind of boost into the HoF from this argument, and in fact it’s mostly QBs who do — it’s not relevant.
These three folks in fact have very similar postseason honors numbers (Greene and Haley 2/5, Jackson 0/6) and only Greene is a member of an all-decade team from this group. For what it’s worth, Haley also has fewer career sacks and fumble recoveries that the other two. I can get behind any and all of them for the HoF, but don’t see a clear standout from this logjam.
There’s been a very good series of articles over in the blog section of pro-football-reference.com about all the finalists and semi-finalists this year. The last such entry was on Floyd Little, and the others can be linked to from that entry:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=4837
It’s in fact quite damning, and I think very rightly so, of the HoF worth of the two Senior nominees. Good reading, with lots of specifics to back things up.
bachslunch,
glad to see your comments again. I liked your analysis of the three LB’s. I too don’t see how the voters can pick one over the other for the HOF.
Seems odd that Jackson never made the All-Pro Team. He’s got a shot since he’s made it this far and maybe the Saints good feelings will get him over the line. Greene starred with three teams and would be my pick.
Correction on my previous comments about Johnny Robinson. Of course he excelled as a Safety not CB for most of his Pro Career and to be more correct he was a flankerback for the Texan’s Offense from 1960-61.
Lets pick the 5 players with the best acolades: Rice, E. Smith, S. Sharpe, Randle and Dawson. Not a bad class? Defense gets shorted once again. It’s a lot easier to pick Offense. Why are so many WR’s in the Finals in the year of Rice? Seems like a lot of folks really respect what Timmy Brown did over his career. It would be something if he made it on 1st ballot.
1 final Tim Brown WR 1988 2004 0 9
2 final Cris Carter WR 1987 2002 2 8
3 final Don Coryell Coach
4 final Roger Craig RB 1983 1993 1 4
5 final Dermontti Dawson C 1988 2000 6 7
6 final Richard Dent DE 1983 1997 1 4
7 final Russ Grimm G 1981 1991 3 4
8 final Charles Haley DE 1986 1999 2 5
9 final Rickey Jackson LB 1981 1995 0 6
10 final Cortez Kennedy DT 1990 2000 3 8
11 final John Randle DT 1990 2003 6 7
12 final Andre Reed WR 1985 2000 0 7
13 final Jerry Rice WR 1985 2004 10 13
14 final Shannon Sharpe TE 1990 2003 4 8
15 final Emmitt Smith RB 1990 2004 4 8
Looks to me like Doleman, Greene, Guy, Branch and Aeneas Williams got short shrifted. I thought Williams should go into the HOF on the 1st ballot.
16 semi Cliff Branch WR 1972 1985 3 4
17 semi Terrell Davis RB 1995 2001 3 3
18 semi Chris Doleman DE 1985 1999 2 8
19 semi Kevin Greene LB 1985 1999 2 5
20 semi Ray Guy P 1973 1986 3 7
21 semi Lester Hayes DB 1977 1986 1 5
22 semi Art Modell Owner
23 semi Paul Tagliabue Commissioner
24 semi Steve Tasker WR 1985 1997 0 7
25 semi Aeneas Williams DB 1991 2004 3 8
26 senior Dick LeBeau DB 1959 1972 0 3
27 senior Floyd Little RB 1967 1975 1 5
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