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	<title>Comments on: Hall of Fame Announces 2010 Finalists</title>
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		<title>By: Tony P</title>
		<link>http://www.zoneblitz.com/2010/01/08/hall-of-fame-2010-finalists/#comment-2604</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 05:37:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoneblitz.com/?p=1191#comment-2604</guid>
		<description>Lets pick the 5 players with the best acolades: Rice, E. Smith, S. Sharpe, Randle and Dawson. Not a bad class?  Defense gets shorted once again. It&#039;s a lot easier to pick Offense.           Why are so many WR&#039;s in the Finals in the year of Rice? Seems like a lot of folks really respect what Timmy Brown did over his career.  It would be something if he made it on 1st ballot.

1 final Tim Brown WR 1988 2004 0 9  
2 final Cris Carter WR 1987 2002 2 8 
3 final Don Coryell Coach                        
4 final Roger Craig RB 1983 1993 1 4 
5 final Dermontti Dawson C 1988 2000 6 7            
6 final Richard Dent DE 1983 1997 1 4                 
7 final Russ Grimm G 1981 1991 3 4                 
8 final Charles Haley DE 1986 1999 2 5                  
9 final Rickey Jackson LB 1981 1995 0 6                  
10 final Cortez Kennedy DT 1990 2000 3 8                 
11 final John Randle DT 1990 2003 6 7                  
12 final Andre Reed WR 1985 2000 0 7  
13 final Jerry Rice WR 1985 2004 10 13 
14 final Shannon Sharpe TE 1990 2003 4 8
15 final Emmitt Smith RB 1990 2004 4 8  
  
Looks to me like Doleman, Greene, Guy, Branch and Aeneas Williams got short shrifted.  I thought Williams should go into the HOF on the 1st ballot. 
 
16 semi Cliff Branch WR 1972 1985 3 4  
17 semi Terrell Davis RB 1995 2001 3 3 
18 semi Chris Doleman DE 1985 1999 2 8               
19 semi Kevin Greene LB 1985 1999 2 5                 
20 semi Ray Guy P 1973 1986 3 7      
21 semi Lester Hayes DB 1977 1986 1 5               
22 semi Art Modell Owner                        
23 semi Paul Tagliabue Commissioner                        
24 semi Steve Tasker WR 1985 1997 0 7 
25 semi Aeneas Williams DB 1991 2004 3 8                  
    
26 senior Dick LeBeau DB 1959 1972 0 3                
27 senior Floyd Little RB 1967 1975 1 5 

Copyright © 2000-2010 Sports Reference LLC. All rights reserved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lets pick the 5 players with the best acolades: Rice, E. Smith, S. Sharpe, Randle and Dawson. Not a bad class?  Defense gets shorted once again. It&#8217;s a lot easier to pick Offense.           Why are so many WR&#8217;s in the Finals in the year of Rice? Seems like a lot of folks really respect what Timmy Brown did over his career.  It would be something if he made it on 1st ballot.</p>
<p>1 final Tim Brown WR 1988 2004 0 9<br />
2 final Cris Carter WR 1987 2002 2 8<br />
3 final Don Coryell Coach<br />
4 final Roger Craig RB 1983 1993 1 4<br />
5 final Dermontti Dawson C 1988 2000 6 7<br />
6 final Richard Dent DE 1983 1997 1 4<br />
7 final Russ Grimm G 1981 1991 3 4<br />
8 final Charles Haley DE 1986 1999 2 5<br />
9 final Rickey Jackson LB 1981 1995 0 6<br />
10 final Cortez Kennedy DT 1990 2000 3 8<br />
11 final John Randle DT 1990 2003 6 7<br />
12 final Andre Reed WR 1985 2000 0 7<br />
13 final Jerry Rice WR 1985 2004 10 13<br />
14 final Shannon Sharpe TE 1990 2003 4 8<br />
15 final Emmitt Smith RB 1990 2004 4 8  </p>
<p>Looks to me like Doleman, Greene, Guy, Branch and Aeneas Williams got short shrifted.  I thought Williams should go into the HOF on the 1st ballot. </p>
<p>16 semi Cliff Branch WR 1972 1985 3 4<br />
17 semi Terrell Davis RB 1995 2001 3 3<br />
18 semi Chris Doleman DE 1985 1999 2 8<br />
19 semi Kevin Greene LB 1985 1999 2 5<br />
20 semi Ray Guy P 1973 1986 3 7<br />
21 semi Lester Hayes DB 1977 1986 1 5<br />
22 semi Art Modell Owner<br />
23 semi Paul Tagliabue Commissioner<br />
24 semi Steve Tasker WR 1985 1997 0 7<br />
25 semi Aeneas Williams DB 1991 2004 3 8                  </p>
<p>26 senior Dick LeBeau DB 1959 1972 0 3<br />
27 senior Floyd Little RB 1967 1975 1 5 </p>
<p>Copyright © 2000-2010 Sports Reference LLC. All rights reserved.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony P</title>
		<link>http://www.zoneblitz.com/2010/01/08/hall-of-fame-2010-finalists/#comment-2603</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 04:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoneblitz.com/?p=1191#comment-2603</guid>
		<description>bachslunch,
glad to see your comments again. I liked your analysis of the three LB&#039;s. I too don&#039;t see how the voters can pick one over the other for the HOF. 

 Seems odd that Jackson never made the All-Pro Team. He&#039;s got a shot since he&#039;s made it this far and maybe the Saints good feelings will get him over the line. Greene starred with three teams and would be my pick.

Correction on my previous comments about Johnny Robinson. Of course he excelled as a  Safety not CB for most of his Pro Career and to be more correct he was a flankerback for the Texan&#039;s Offense from 1960-61.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bachslunch,<br />
glad to see your comments again. I liked your analysis of the three LB&#8217;s. I too don&#8217;t see how the voters can pick one over the other for the HOF. </p>
<p> Seems odd that Jackson never made the All-Pro Team. He&#8217;s got a shot since he&#8217;s made it this far and maybe the Saints good feelings will get him over the line. Greene starred with three teams and would be my pick.</p>
<p>Correction on my previous comments about Johnny Robinson. Of course he excelled as a  Safety not CB for most of his Pro Career and to be more correct he was a flankerback for the Texan&#8217;s Offense from 1960-61.</p>
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		<title>By: bachslunch</title>
		<link>http://www.zoneblitz.com/2010/01/08/hall-of-fame-2010-finalists/#comment-2597</link>
		<dc:creator>bachslunch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 20:17:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoneblitz.com/?p=1191#comment-2597</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s been a very good series of articles over in the blog section of pro-football-reference.com about all the finalists and semi-finalists this year. The last such entry was on Floyd Little, and the others can be linked to from that entry:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=4837

It&#039;s in fact quite damning, and I think very rightly so, of the HoF worth of the two Senior nominees. Good reading, with lots of specifics to back things up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s been a very good series of articles over in the blog section of pro-football-reference.com about all the finalists and semi-finalists this year. The last such entry was on Floyd Little, and the others can be linked to from that entry:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=4837" rel="nofollow">http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=4837</a></p>
<p>It&#8217;s in fact quite damning, and I think very rightly so, of the HoF worth of the two Senior nominees. Good reading, with lots of specifics to back things up.</p>
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		<title>By: bachslunch</title>
		<link>http://www.zoneblitz.com/2010/01/08/hall-of-fame-2010-finalists/#comment-2596</link>
		<dc:creator>bachslunch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 20:14:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoneblitz.com/?p=1191#comment-2596</guid>
		<description>Am not clear as to why Charles Haley is a better HoF LB pick than Kevin Greene or Rickey Jackson. And please leave the &quot;5 Super Bowl rings&quot; argument at home, as no defensive player has gotten that kind of boost into the HoF from this argument, and in fact it&#039;s mostly QBs who do -- it&#039;s not relevant.

These three folks in fact have very similar postseason honors numbers (Greene and Haley 2/5, Jackson 0/6) and only Greene is a member of an all-decade team from this group. For what it&#039;s worth, Haley also has fewer career sacks and fumble recoveries that the other two. I can get behind any and all of them for the HoF, but don&#039;t see a clear standout from this logjam.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Am not clear as to why Charles Haley is a better HoF LB pick than Kevin Greene or Rickey Jackson. And please leave the &#8220;5 Super Bowl rings&#8221; argument at home, as no defensive player has gotten that kind of boost into the HoF from this argument, and in fact it&#8217;s mostly QBs who do &#8212; it&#8217;s not relevant.</p>
<p>These three folks in fact have very similar postseason honors numbers (Greene and Haley 2/5, Jackson 0/6) and only Greene is a member of an all-decade team from this group. For what it&#8217;s worth, Haley also has fewer career sacks and fumble recoveries that the other two. I can get behind any and all of them for the HoF, but don&#8217;t see a clear standout from this logjam.</p>
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		<title>By: bachslunch</title>
		<link>http://www.zoneblitz.com/2010/01/08/hall-of-fame-2010-finalists/#comment-2595</link>
		<dc:creator>bachslunch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 20:05:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoneblitz.com/?p=1191#comment-2595</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know where the idea that Shannon Sharpe was a good blocker comes from. Not only was he not a good blocker, he clearly didn&#039;t like to do so and thought it was beneath him. Here are his thoughts on the subject:

&quot;You don&#039;t make any money if you block. They call you a servant if you block. You make minimum plus tips.&quot;

Source:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1024197/index.htm

That being said, I think he belongs in the HoF, and may get elected as early as this year. The TEs in the HoF all have a specialty in pass catching relative to their era&#039;s norms -- and some could block pretty well while others weren&#039;t much in that department. There&#039;s plenty of good precedent for Shape being elected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know where the idea that Shannon Sharpe was a good blocker comes from. Not only was he not a good blocker, he clearly didn&#8217;t like to do so and thought it was beneath him. Here are his thoughts on the subject:</p>
<p>&#8220;You don&#8217;t make any money if you block. They call you a servant if you block. You make minimum plus tips.&#8221;</p>
<p>Source:</p>
<p><a href="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1024197/index.htm" rel="nofollow">http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1024197/index.htm</a></p>
<p>That being said, I think he belongs in the HoF, and may get elected as early as this year. The TEs in the HoF all have a specialty in pass catching relative to their era&#8217;s norms &#8212; and some could block pretty well while others weren&#8217;t much in that department. There&#8217;s plenty of good precedent for Shape being elected.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony B</title>
		<link>http://www.zoneblitz.com/2010/01/08/hall-of-fame-2010-finalists/#comment-2593</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 06:13:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoneblitz.com/?p=1191#comment-2593</guid>
		<description>While you were talking about Lebeau and mentioned he had Night Train Lane and Yale Larry along with a good front 7-- that only covered half his career. Lem Barney more than &quot;covered&quot; the second half of his career. Lebeau had 30 of those int&#039;s between &#039;67 and &#039;71. Barney had 35 during the same period. Wow! Has there ever been 2 players with 65 int&#039;s in a 5 year period in the same defensive backfield? That being said, I think you need to give credit where credit is due, Lebeau and Barney saw more &quot;action&quot; playing in those secondaries than Karras&#039;s and Hornung&#039;s bookie. They must have risen to the task at hand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While you were talking about Lebeau and mentioned he had Night Train Lane and Yale Larry along with a good front 7&#8211; that only covered half his career. Lem Barney more than &#8220;covered&#8221; the second half of his career. Lebeau had 30 of those int&#8217;s between &#8217;67 and &#8217;71. Barney had 35 during the same period. Wow! Has there ever been 2 players with 65 int&#8217;s in a 5 year period in the same defensive backfield? That being said, I think you need to give credit where credit is due, Lebeau and Barney saw more &#8220;action&#8221; playing in those secondaries than Karras&#8217;s and Hornung&#8217;s bookie. They must have risen to the task at hand.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony B</title>
		<link>http://www.zoneblitz.com/2010/01/08/hall-of-fame-2010-finalists/#comment-2589</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 20:52:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoneblitz.com/?p=1191#comment-2589</guid>
		<description>If Richard Dent is HOF he should give all due credit to a system where all interior players needed to get double teamed and he did not. The strength of all those D&#039;s were McMichael, Perry and Singletary. Singletary (as an ILB or MLB) and McMichael took on more double teams as well as their interior linemen which enabled Dent playing strongside stand-up to have the career he did. In my opinion McMichael needs to be alongside Dent in the Hall because double-teaming him allowed Dent to have the career he had. Just my opinion. Tackles today do not have nearly the impact (or stats) they did because teams give up on the run game and throw more short passes to avoid animals (in a good sense) in the middle.
I am still under the belief that no D players from this era should go in with this class. Rice, Smith and Sharpe deserve a stage of their own and LeBeau is a nice touch for sentimentals. If any group deserved a short class it is this one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Richard Dent is HOF he should give all due credit to a system where all interior players needed to get double teamed and he did not. The strength of all those D&#8217;s were McMichael, Perry and Singletary. Singletary (as an ILB or MLB) and McMichael took on more double teams as well as their interior linemen which enabled Dent playing strongside stand-up to have the career he did. In my opinion McMichael needs to be alongside Dent in the Hall because double-teaming him allowed Dent to have the career he had. Just my opinion. Tackles today do not have nearly the impact (or stats) they did because teams give up on the run game and throw more short passes to avoid animals (in a good sense) in the middle.<br />
I am still under the belief that no D players from this era should go in with this class. Rice, Smith and Sharpe deserve a stage of their own and LeBeau is a nice touch for sentimentals. If any group deserved a short class it is this one.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony P</title>
		<link>http://www.zoneblitz.com/2010/01/08/hall-of-fame-2010-finalists/#comment-2560</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 07:10:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoneblitz.com/?p=1191#comment-2560</guid>
		<description>Do you know who was beating LeBeau for all of the Pro Bowls and All-Pros in the 60&#039;s?? Might be more justification if there were two or three really great players beating him out every year.  Like the WR position in the 90&#039;s with Jerry Rice. He was a lock for one spot every year. Doesn&#039;t mean other great WR with HOF ability weren&#039;t playing.

My theory is that LeBeau had such a great Defense in front of him that the pressure led to many of ints. If you have a QB under pressure all the time you can play a little more centerfied as ducks and poor throws come your way.  Also who played opposite LeBeau? They must of thrown on him a lot for him to get all of those ints. Maybe he wasn&#039;t the best cover guy.  I&#039;m just playing devils advocate. 3 PB&#039;s aren&#039;t many. You would think he&#039;d get 1 AP along the way. He was only a 5th rd pick.  

Krause was an 8/3 and Tunnel was a 9/4  and clearly deserving of the HOF.  Even at that Krause waited forever.  LeBeau played half of his career in the Detroit secondary alongside  two great HOFers in one of the scariest hitters of all-time in Dick Night train Lane 7/3 and the versatile Yale Lary 9/3.  No doubt LeBeau got a lot of noteriety playing beside the HOFer for 7 years. Are we going to have 3 HOFers from the same secondary.  That might be a first? If Lebeau gets in what about Jake Scott and Dick Anderson? Ints make that big a difference?  Yale Lary only had 50 ints.  No doubt with two HOFers in the secondary that LeBeau was getting picked on all the time.  I wonder how many times he got burned in his first 4 or 5 years?

 You know I believe  Johnny Robinson with his 57 ints was a much better player than LeBeau. :) He was drafted number 3 in the 1st rd by the Lions a year later. Of course he was a Halfback than and not a CB until later. He played both ways for LSU and was a great athlete. I don&#039;t want LeBeau to get in but maybe I should if it help Johnny to make it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you know who was beating LeBeau for all of the Pro Bowls and All-Pros in the 60&#8242;s?? Might be more justification if there were two or three really great players beating him out every year.  Like the WR position in the 90&#8242;s with Jerry Rice. He was a lock for one spot every year. Doesn&#8217;t mean other great WR with HOF ability weren&#8217;t playing.</p>
<p>My theory is that LeBeau had such a great Defense in front of him that the pressure led to many of ints. If you have a QB under pressure all the time you can play a little more centerfied as ducks and poor throws come your way.  Also who played opposite LeBeau? They must of thrown on him a lot for him to get all of those ints. Maybe he wasn&#8217;t the best cover guy.  I&#8217;m just playing devils advocate. 3 PB&#8217;s aren&#8217;t many. You would think he&#8217;d get 1 AP along the way. He was only a 5th rd pick.  </p>
<p>Krause was an 8/3 and Tunnel was a 9/4  and clearly deserving of the HOF.  Even at that Krause waited forever.  LeBeau played half of his career in the Detroit secondary alongside  two great HOFers in one of the scariest hitters of all-time in Dick Night train Lane 7/3 and the versatile Yale Lary 9/3.  No doubt LeBeau got a lot of noteriety playing beside the HOFer for 7 years. Are we going to have 3 HOFers from the same secondary.  That might be a first? If Lebeau gets in what about Jake Scott and Dick Anderson? Ints make that big a difference?  Yale Lary only had 50 ints.  No doubt with two HOFers in the secondary that LeBeau was getting picked on all the time.  I wonder how many times he got burned in his first 4 or 5 years?</p>
<p> You know I believe  Johnny Robinson with his 57 ints was a much better player than LeBeau. <img src='http://www.zoneblitz.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  He was drafted number 3 in the 1st rd by the Lions a year later. Of course he was a Halfback than and not a CB until later. He played both ways for LSU and was a great athlete. I don&#8217;t want LeBeau to get in but maybe I should if it help Johnny to make it.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad</title>
		<link>http://www.zoneblitz.com/2010/01/08/hall-of-fame-2010-finalists/#comment-2555</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 04:52:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoneblitz.com/?p=1191#comment-2555</guid>
		<description>Charles Haley is a fine pick. I just think Richard Dent has waited a good amount of time. 

Richard Dent was a big part of the Bears Defense in the 1980&#039;s. He has 137.5 sacks vs Haley&#039;s 100.5. He has led the NFL in sacks in 1985 with 17.0. He has 2 seasons with 17+ sacks. Haley had a season with 16.0 sacks and 12.5 sacks in another. For what it&#039;s worth, Dent has 8 Int&#039;s as a DE vs Haley&#039;s 2 Ints as a LB/DE. Dent has 677 tackles vs Haley&#039;s 498 tackles. Dent has a Super Bowl MVP. I understand Haley has 5 rings. But thats mostly a team award. SB MVP is an individual award. And the HOF is about the individual, not what team he was on. Charles Haley and Richard will both make the HOF IMO

The reasons why i picked Jerry Rice, Emmitt Smith, Dermonti Dawson, Shannon Sharpe, Richard Dent, and Dick LeBeau:

Jerry Rice: If I were to list half of his accomplishments, It would be forever. Enough said. 

Emmitt Smith: Read what I wrote for Jerry Rice.

Dermonti Dawson: He has 7 Pro Bowls, along with 6 1st Team All Pros. He barley missed games for the most part. He was the successor of Mike Webster(Hall of Famer). 

Shannon Sharpe: He was regarded as one of the greatest TE&#039;s ever to play. He made 8 Pro Bowls. He has 3 Super Bowl Rings. At the time of retirement, he held virtually every TE record.  He was a great blocker.

Richard Dent: Read above if you haven&#039;t already.

Dick LeBeau: He had 63 Int&#039;s which ranked somewhere around 4th all time at the time of retirement. The only players ahead of him are in the HOF( Dick Night Train Lane, Paul Krause, and Emlen Tunnell). His career AV is 83 which is 304th all time since 1950. I guess thats good? I don&#039;t know. Plus, its been over 30 years since he played. I think you induct him because he was a work horse, and the younger guys will have a chance to get in. But, you induct the veterans first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charles Haley is a fine pick. I just think Richard Dent has waited a good amount of time. </p>
<p>Richard Dent was a big part of the Bears Defense in the 1980&#8242;s. He has 137.5 sacks vs Haley&#8217;s 100.5. He has led the NFL in sacks in 1985 with 17.0. He has 2 seasons with 17+ sacks. Haley had a season with 16.0 sacks and 12.5 sacks in another. For what it&#8217;s worth, Dent has 8 Int&#8217;s as a DE vs Haley&#8217;s 2 Ints as a LB/DE. Dent has 677 tackles vs Haley&#8217;s 498 tackles. Dent has a Super Bowl MVP. I understand Haley has 5 rings. But thats mostly a team award. SB MVP is an individual award. And the HOF is about the individual, not what team he was on. Charles Haley and Richard will both make the HOF IMO</p>
<p>The reasons why i picked Jerry Rice, Emmitt Smith, Dermonti Dawson, Shannon Sharpe, Richard Dent, and Dick LeBeau:</p>
<p>Jerry Rice: If I were to list half of his accomplishments, It would be forever. Enough said. </p>
<p>Emmitt Smith: Read what I wrote for Jerry Rice.</p>
<p>Dermonti Dawson: He has 7 Pro Bowls, along with 6 1st Team All Pros. He barley missed games for the most part. He was the successor of Mike Webster(Hall of Famer). </p>
<p>Shannon Sharpe: He was regarded as one of the greatest TE&#8217;s ever to play. He made 8 Pro Bowls. He has 3 Super Bowl Rings. At the time of retirement, he held virtually every TE record.  He was a great blocker.</p>
<p>Richard Dent: Read above if you haven&#8217;t already.</p>
<p>Dick LeBeau: He had 63 Int&#8217;s which ranked somewhere around 4th all time at the time of retirement. The only players ahead of him are in the HOF( Dick Night Train Lane, Paul Krause, and Emlen Tunnell). His career AV is 83 which is 304th all time since 1950. I guess thats good? I don&#8217;t know. Plus, its been over 30 years since he played. I think you induct him because he was a work horse, and the younger guys will have a chance to get in. But, you induct the veterans first.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony P</title>
		<link>http://www.zoneblitz.com/2010/01/08/hall-of-fame-2010-finalists/#comment-2554</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 20:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoneblitz.com/?p=1191#comment-2554</guid>
		<description>I like your picks Brad.  Those might be the six. :)

 I&#039;d prefer Charles Haley over Dent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like your picks Brad.  Those might be the six. <img src='http://www.zoneblitz.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p> I&#8217;d prefer Charles Haley over Dent.</p>
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