2011 Pro Football Hall of Fame Inductees

211 Comments

1. Brad on February 9, 2010 at 8:58 pm

   Why isn’t Curtis Martin in the list for the finalists? He has the 4th most rushing yards and he is the oldest player to have a rushing title. He also scored 100 TD’s. And he has 10 straight seasons with 1,000+ rushing yards to start a career, NFL record.

2. Patrick on February 9, 2010 at 10:54 pm

   From your class of 2011 I would suggest that Reed replaces Brown

3. Tony - Zoneblitz on February 9, 2010 at 10:58 pm

   Brad – I knew you wouldn’t like it, but did you even read the full post, or just the list? :-)

   Oldest to win a rushing title and 10 straight seasons with 1,000+ rushing yards to start a career probably will mean little to voters. The 100 TD’s are nice, but Faulk has more–and more total yards (and is less than 2,000 yards back rushing), and has a better postseason mix.

   If you go with the premise that all of the previous finalists make it again (not 100% to happen, but a high & will for sure), then that leaves five spots–I don’t think five first year guys make the finalist cut.

   If Coryell and/or Craig are dropped from the finalists, there’s a good chance he’ll make it. And I still think he will be a HOF at some point. But even as a finalist, I don’t see any way he makes it all the way to the Hall in year 1.

4. Tony on February 9, 2010 at 11:02 pm

   Patrick – You may be right, based on this year the voters may have Reed ahead of Brown. But I don’t see it, even though I was a huge Reed fan when he played. I won’t be disappointed if it happens that way, but I see Reed as borderline HOF, and Brown as a sure thing.

5. boardgame on February 9, 2010 at 11:56 pm

   I’ve been swayed to Andre Reed’s side in the log jam of three receivers. He seems to have the monumental stats that you’ll need anyway as a recent era WR and he leaves a legacy of playing on the Bills teams that went to four straight SB’s.

   He also went to seven straight pro-bowls and has great over-all numbers in the post-season that helped the bills got to those SB’s; third in post season receptions behind Jerry Rice and Michael Irvin, top 5 in post season receiving yardage and tied for third in post season 100 receiving yard games….trailing again Irvin and Rice.

   Also, add in that he and Jim Kelly had the all-time record for most career completions and career passing yardage from a QB to a WR until those marks were broken by the Manning to Harrison combo in 2005.

   Reed also just ranks behind Rice in all-time YAC, showing he wasn’t just catching passes but also making his own yardage too. He gets my vote right now over Carter and Brown.

   I still don’t know how Don Coryell isn’t in the HOF with all his influence on the game. ‘Air Coryell’ alone will live forever. BTW, just take a guess where ‘The Greatest Show On Turf’ got its roots from. Coryell was a good coach who completely turned around things in St. Louis and San Diego. He also as the first coach to win 100 games in college and the pros.

   One should just do their own research and come to their own conclusion about Coryell’s legacy when it focuses on the I formation, the H-back, TE split wide, 4 and 5 WR sets, three digit play calling system, much less his impact on the ‘Nickel’ and ‘Dime’ defenses.

   His coaching tree is filled with HOF coaches and coordinators that implemented his system leading to SB titles with the Redskins, Cowboys and Rams.

   I also don’t understand how Haley isn’t already in with his 5 SB rings; that’s more than any other player. Also, Haley got his 12.5 sack in the SB vs Pitt in 1996 which gave him the record at the time for all time post season sacks. He was a force on two teams that won back to back SB’s in SF and Dall with some believing him the player wo put the cowboys over the top and on their way to a dynasty.

   Haley has enough stats and credentials for the HOF and was a stud on two differnet all-time teams. He leaves a legacy for most SB rings by one player and by playing a significant role in two dynasties that will live forever, the 80’s 49er’s and the 90’s Cowboys.

   Shannon Sharpe should be in as soon as possible with him at one time holding the record for TE’s in rec, rec yards and rec TD’s. He also has three SB rings including back to back titles with Denver.

   Like him or not Deion Sanders is a 1st ballot lock for the HOF.

   My five modern inductees next year would then read:

   Andre Reed, Deion Sanders, Charley Haley, Don Coryell and Shannon Sharpe

   My ‘just misses’ would be Carter, Brown, Dawson, Roaf, Faulk and Williams. I believe all these will make the HOF eventually. Faulk is the best of the bunch but i don’t quiet see him as a first ballot HOF.

   50/50: Dent and Craig

   I’m still wondering if Craig has the over-all numbers for a HOF RB because he certainly has the legacy with the 80’s 49er’s and the first back to go 1,000/1,000.

   Dent to me will never rank as an all-time great player like a Bruce Smith or Reggie White, but he clearly will be Hall of Very Good. I can see a case for him if he left a lasting impact along with it to bump him over the top. Though he’s part of a team that will never die in the 85 bears and a ’46 defense’ that pause the game of football in 1985, I’m not sure one season of system and team dominace is enough to validate him for the HOF.

   I don’t really see Kennedy and Doleman as HOF’s. They both to me are Hall of Very Good types that really leave no lasting legace like atleast Dent does in a smaller fashion. Kennedy gets a lot of support though. I just don’t remember watching him and thinking to myself he’s a HOF.

   In fact, I always thought that Michael Dean Perry was pretty much the equal to Kennedy and he’s never sniffing Canton.

6. Andy on February 10, 2010 at 12:05 am

   Interesting. There’s a name I haven’t seen thrown out much, if at all, since we started this thing. I was about to say no way to Michael Dean Perry. Then I looked him up at profootballreference.com (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PerrMi00.htm) and to my surprise he went to six pro bowls and was twice first-team All Pro. He had a couple of pretty dominant looking seasons, at least by the numbers, and several very solid ones.

   I don’t know enough about him to guess whether he ever gets consideration for the hall. But his career was certainly stronger than I gave it credit for.

7. boardgame on February 10, 2010 at 5:21 am

   A correction on Haley’s sack total in the post season. It’s 11 sacks instead of 12.5

   The current leaders all-time in the post season(I think) are Bruce Smith(14.5), Reggie White(12) and Haley(11).

   As far as who might be the two senior nominees for 2011, my top picks would be Chuck Howley and Otis Taylor. The SB is in Dallas next year so I wonder if that will have anything to do with the senior committee possibly selecting a cowboy.

   Jerry Kramer, Johnny Robinson, Jim Patton, Cliff Harris, Tommy Nobis, Pete Retzlaf are other possible options. Maybe that old time Eagle that finally got on the Eagles Honor Roll this year will finally get selected as well.

   I just hope the picks are much better than last year!!

8. Patrick on February 10, 2010 at 10:27 am

   If the voters thought Brown was a sure thing he would have been voted in this year. But it appears the voters who have been considering Reed for the last several years are moving closer to voting him in. Either way it is quite clear that within the next few years Brown, Reed, and Carter will make it in. Election is a numbers game and ultimately what matters is not whether one gets in first or when, but that they all get in eventually. If it was me voting I would put in Carter and Reed before Brown.

9. Patrick on February 10, 2010 at 10:31 am

   The has also been a concern discussed in recent years over the underrepresentation of defensive players in the HOF, I think that has influenced voting in recent years (including Jackson and Randle this year), which leaves me to believe that Sanders and Dent will both be among the five (with Reed, Sharpe, and Dawson) next year.

10. Patrick on February 10, 2010 at 10:36 am

    It will also be interesting to see how voters handle the three new running backs; Martin, Bettis, and Faulk who rank 4th, 5th, and 9th all time in career rushing. All other retired top ten backs are already in HOF and Tomlinson (8th) is a certain HOFer.

11. Tony P on February 10, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    Andy and Tony,
    Great post guys! I agree with Deion Sanders, Willie Roaf, and Marshall Faulk, in fact I think they could be first ballot. I know that will be tough for Roaf since McDaniel wasn’t but maybe since he was a LT which is the highest profile lineman he gets in there on his first crack.

    I thought CB Aeneas Williams should od been a first ballot last time so I feel confident he will get in this time around. I think Dent a 6-time Finalist will be put on the shelf for awhile now. Same for Don Coryell who was a stretch for sure. Like Tags they tested the water and there wasn’t enough support.

    Against Martin are some of his career rushing averages which are rather pedestrian and his career total is only 4.0 which isn’t too exciting. He definetly belongs in the HOF but I fear many will remember him as the journeyman workhorse with a very good Jets OL and not remember the dynamic back he was with the Pats and Jets for the first five years of his career. For the first half of his career he was one of the best RB’s I’ve ever seen. Amazing ability to run and catch the ball. And later he was remarkably productive if not the same flashy back. He’s going to wait a while but IMO he goes in before Bettis. Maybe Bettis doesn’t go in at all?

    Lots of support for Lester Hayes so you might see his name pop up again.

    Here’s your list with modifictions.

    WR Tim Brown
    WR Cris Carter HOF!! errrrr!

    Coach Don Coryell Out! — In! Jerome Bettis

    RB Roger Craig Out! — In!! Kevin Greene
    C Dermonti Dawson

    DE Richard Dent Out!– In! Curtis Martin

    DE Charles Haley HOF!! tough call

    DT Cortez Kennedy
    WR Andre Reed

    TE Shannon Sharpe HOF !!
    CB Deion Sanders HOF!!

    T Willie Roaf

    RB Marshall Faulk HOF!! tough call

    CB Aeneas Williams

    DE Chris Doleman nope! WR Cliff Branch – last year eligible!

12. boardgame on February 10, 2010 at 8:04 pm

    I would rank the three log jam WR’s in this order as far as makiing the HOF:

    (1)Andre Reed

    (2)Cris Carter(130 TD’s)

    (3)Tim Brown(I wonder if his Heisman Trophy will help him even more get in)

    I think that Larry Allen has the best chance of being a first ballot HOF of the upcoming eligible lineman that include Will Shields, Jonathan Ogden and Willie Roaf. Their all stellar candidates though!

    Roaf and Allen both made the all-decade teams in the 90’s and 00’s. Allen though was more versatile than the others, making the pro bowl at three different positions. In fact, for six straight years, Allen made the pro bowl and AP first team all-pro at three different postions….LG, RG and LT.

    Allen also was stellar at RT in 1994 when he replaced an injured Erik Williams(car crash) and would’ve made pro bowl that year if he played in enough games.

    Allen was the best player on those great Cowboy Offensive Lines that we’re always hearing about that paved the way for Emmit Smith. I would be shocked if Larry Allen is not a first ballot HOF.

    I think Faulk is the best of the three RB’s, with Martin an edge over Bettis.

    I’m also surprised that Bill Parcells isn’t already in the HOF. The legacy he has with the Giants, maybe the two greatest coaching turn-arounds ever with the pats and jets, making the Cowboys respectable again and leaving them with players like Tony Romo, MB3, Demarcus Ware, Jason Witten, Jay Ratliff and Miles Austin….most of these players being draft day steals, including amazingly Ratliff a 7th round pick with Romo and Austin NOT EVEN DRAFTED BY ANY TEAM.

    Now as a GM, he goes to Miami the first year and they go to the playoffs off of a 1-15 record the year before. They were also respectable this year but the injuries to their starting QB and especially Ronnie Brown dented their season.

    Parcells is a HOF’er.

13. Tony P on February 11, 2010 at 4:57 am

    Allen might be one of the few OL to be on a first ballot.

    I know he was joked about and got into trouble but I would think Nate Newton would have a shot. The whole Cowboy line was great at opening huge holes. The C – Mark Stepnoski was on 90’s Decade Team but I don’t think he has a shot. Tuinay ? was solid. Eric Williams was a dirty rotten scoudrel so he won’t make it. I just can’t imagine 2 OL players not makig it off such a good line.

    I think Parcells has to retire first?

    Don’t forget about Walter Jones of the group of great OL.

    Timmy Brown was the best athlete of the three. I think Reed will have to wait at least as long as Art Monk.

14. Brad on February 11, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    Will Ruben Brown make the HOF?

15. bachslunch on February 11, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    Bill Parcells is not in the HoF primarily because he isn’t eligible yet. As of a couple years ago, the HoF made it a requirement that all coaches need to be retired for 5 years before being eligible for consideration. For Parcells, that won’t happen for another two years, assuming he doesn’t coach again before then. In fact, I’ve seen good speculation that the 5 year waiting period for coaches was instituted because of Parcells’s penchant for retiring and un-retiring several times (note that there didn’t used to be a waiting period for coaches).

    No, I don’t think Ruben Brown makes the HoF. Am thinking more postseason honors decorated guards such as Will Shields and Alan Faneca may struggle enough to be elected on their own — and given how hard it can be for guards to make the HoF in general, I don’t think Brown has much of a chance.

    Am thinking much of the reason Don Coryell isn’t in the HoF is that his head coaching W-L record isn’t that distinguished, his postseason coaching accomplishments are nil, and his defenses usually were lousy. If he gets in, it will be more as contributor/innovator for what he accomplished coaching on the offensive side of things. Perhaps that’s enough — hard to say.

    And as has been discussed here on other threads, Super Bowl rings and NFL Championships often make a difference for Hall of the Very Good level QBs (Bobby Layne, Joe Namath, Bob Griese, Terry Bradshaw, Troy Aikman), rarely for HotVG offensive players otherwise (Lynn Swann, Paul Hornung), and never for defensive players. One can see Charles Haley stuck in a logjam of strong if not elite HoF level LBs/DEs/hybrid types from the 80s and 90s such as Andre Tippett, Rickey Jackson, Kevin Greene, Chris Doleman, Derrick Thomas, and Harry Carson. Given that

    -about half of these have been elected so far, thus establishing clear precedent for players at this level as HoF worthy

    and

    -Haley was a finalist this year and a semifinalist the last couple years prior

    I’d say the chances Haley gets elected sooner or later is very good. If Haley had gotten in and none of the rest had, I’d have a problem with that — but given the realities, I’m fine with him getting elected.

16. Patrick on February 12, 2010 at 11:11 am

    “I think Dent a 6-time Finalist will be put on the shelf for awhile now.”

    Tony, I would disagree as the normal tradition is that players that stay on the list of 15 finalists, especially those that advance to the top 10, and will continue to be finalists and move forward towards eventual selection. My guess is that Dent falls into that group and will be a finalist and elected within the next few years.

    If you go back the last several years the vast majority of players who stayed on as a 15 finalists ultimately were elected. And although there are no published lists of the top ten from the annual elections, my guess would be that those are all eventually elected – which from 2010 would include Sharpe, Dawson, Dent, Kennedy and Reed. Two or three of these would get in in 2011 and the rest in 2012.

17. Patrick on February 12, 2010 at 11:20 am

    “I’m also surprised that Bill Parcells isn’t already in the HOF. ”

    Because as was explained earlier coaches need to be retired 5 years and even though he is currently serving as Miami President (three years) the five year period has not passed nor the uncertainty of whether he will coach again. He made the list 25 semi-finalists once before and had to be removed when he returned to coach Dallas.

18. boardgame on February 12, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    The reason I was surprised about Parcells is that I remember he had already been a finalist in 2001 and 2002.

    In both years, he failed to gain induction when I thought his work alone with the Giants, Jets and Pats would’ve been enough.

19. Patrick on February 12, 2010 at 5:07 pm

    Unless you have many championships Coaches often taken multiple attempts before elected (Bill Walsh was not a first time election), also I suspect some voters let their personal feelings on Parcells influence them and perhaps some were uncertain whether he would in fact evidently return to coaching, in fact in 2003 his name was removed from the list of 25 semis when hired by Dallas.

20. boknows34 on February 13, 2010 at 5:49 am

    Parcells was a finalist when the rules for head coaches stated they must be retired for one year. I remember reading at the time that voters were reluctant to elect him as they felt (rightly so in hindsight) he would return to coaching. He will be eligible in 2012 with Will Shields and Tiki Barber and that’s looking like a good year for clearing up some of the current backlog before the competition becomes brutal again – Ogden, Strahan, Sapp, Larry Allen, Morten Andersen, Priest Holmes, John Lynch in 2013. Derrick Brooks, Marvin Harrison, Tony Dungy, Zach Thomas, Shaun Alexander (not a fan) in 2014. We can also pencil in Kurt Warner, Junior Seau and Isaac Bruce as 1st time eligible in 2015.

    Dent and Kennedy appear to be next in line for the defensive linemen. I don’t agree that Dent will be on the shelf as Harry Carson made it in his 7th time as a finalist. Art Monk, John Stallworth and Don Maynard all got elected as 8th time finalists. Kennedy also made the jump into the Final 10 for the first time which bodes well for the future. Remember Big Tez is an 8/3 candidate, an All-Decade selection and a Defensive Player of The Year in 1992 with 92 tackles and 14 sacks on a 2-14 Seattle team. I can’t believe how anyone thinks he is not worthy of Canton.

    In 2009 the players who made the Final 10 who did not get elected were Dent, Randle, Carter, Sharpe and Grimm. Randle and Grimm are now elected so Carter was the only one to drop down in the vote where he was replaced by Reed. Dent and Sharpe have now had Top 10 support two years running which makes their chances of taking the next step look very good.

    I’m not going to predict the 2011 Class but rather the next 10 modern era names who will get elected by 2012. Dawson and Roaf will be the next two OL. Dawson (7/6, All Decade) I think gets elected in 2011 with Roaf (11/3 and two All Decades) in 2012. Dent and Sharpe should also be elected by 2012. Deion (8/6, All Decade and DPOTY) is a 100% lock in 2011 and Faulk (7/3, 3 OPOTYs and MVP) a 90% lock for next year. That’s 6 names so far. At least one of the WR trio backlog will get in by 2012. That would be 5 offensive players and two defensive players for my projections so maybe Kennedy balances it out at 5/3. Parcells will have to wait as Bill Walsh didn’t make it first time. I think the other two spots by 2012 will be between whoever is left at WR, Haley, Doleman, Greene, Bettis and Martin.

    Those who are not in by 2012 will have to face some very stiff competition from 2013 (see above) and may have a long wait.

21. boknows34 on February 13, 2010 at 5:58 am

    Cliff Branch has now dropped off the modern era list. 2011 is the last chance for Lester Hayes and Ray Guy (both retired after 1986) before they have to rely on the Seniors route. That will 3 more names for the Senior Commitee to consider.

22. Tony P on February 14, 2010 at 12:11 am

    boknows34,

    This year is the 2010 Class which will be Cliff Branch’s last year of modern eligibility.

    Branch’s last year was 1985 and 2010 is his 25th year of eligibility.

    This year’s class will be the 2010 Class to be inducted in 2011.

    Does it make sense to you? :)

23. boknows34 on February 14, 2010 at 9:11 am

    Tony P.

    The 2010 HOF Class has come and gone which WAS Cliff Branch’s last year of modern era eligibility. This year’s Class is the 2010 Class and will be inducted in August 2010. Where are you getting 2011 from?

    As you know a player remains on the ballot until 25 calendar years after his retirement, but because of the 5 season retirement rule a candidate has 20 seasons of actual ELIGIBILITY as a modern era candidate. In Branch’s case he retired following the ’85 season so the recent 2010 Class was his last chance to take the modern route. The 86-90 seasons were his 5 seasons of waiting and 1991 was the first HOF Class he was eligible for. (We always have to add 6 calendar years from a player’s last season to his first year of HOF eligibility). I think that’s where some of the confusion lies. 1991-2010 may be 19 calendar years but are actually 20 seasons of HOF Class eligibility.

    Look at this link from the profootballhof website on the selection process for the 2010 Class.

    http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/selectionprocess.aspx

    On the 5th paragraph it states:
    When the Selectors meet in South Florida next February to name the Class of 2010, they will have before them a roster of 17 final candidates, along with detailed biographies on each. To assure that older players will be considered along with the younger breed, the Seniors Committee – made up of nine veteran members of the overall Selection Committee – have named two nominees from the pre-1985 era to be included on the final list.

    Therefore the next HOF Class of 2011 will look at the pre-1986 era for its Senior Nominees which Branch is now a part of as he retired in 1985. Guy and Hayes will face their last modern era chance in 2011 as they retired following the ’86 season. From 2012 they too become Seniors.

    A recent case was Bob Keuchenberg. The HOF lists his final season as 1984 (see link below for 2009 finalists) and he was of course an unsuccessful modern era finalist in that Class of 2009. Kooch was therefore not eligible as a modern era candidate for the recent 2010 Class which is why he was not on its preliminary candidate list.

    http://www.profootballhof.com/enshrinement/story.aspx?story_id=3071
    http://www.profootballhof.com/enshrinement/2009/9/19/2010-preliminary-nominees—by-position/

    Hope this makes sense too. ;)

24. Patrick on February 14, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    When the preliminary list of candidates is released this fall (2010) for the class of 2011 that is when the 25 year calculation of eligability is made. In other words it will be based on 2010 year and not 2011. So Cliff Branch (last season was 1985) is still eligable for class of 2011 election as a modern candidate as he will be on the preliminary list this fall (2010). It is not based on 25 years since your last season but 25 since retired. Branch played in 1985, he retirement is counted as 1986.

25. boknows34 on February 14, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    Rayfield Wright – retired 1979
    Was eligible for the Class of 2004 where he was a finalist.

    For the Class of 2005 (26 years after his retirement) he was not on the modern era list (see below). In 2006 he was elected as a Senior.

    http://www.profootballhof.com/history//release.aspx?release_id=1319

    Therefore Branch is no longer eligible as a modern era candidate. 2011 is also 26 years after his final season just like Wright in 2005.

26. boknows34 on February 14, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    Patrick.

    We count from 1986 for Branch’s 5 season waiting period. (86-90). He was then draft eligible from 1991 but this means he has already been passed over 20 times by the HOF voting committee. 1991-2010 is 19 calendar years but actually 20 HOF Classes. When you add on the 5 season waiting period (86-90) Branch’s 25 seasons have now expired.

27. boknows34 on February 14, 2010 at 7:54 pm

    Edit: Should of course mean HOF eligible from 1991, not draft eligible.

28. Tony P on February 15, 2010 at 2:52 am

    Branch is in his 25th year of eligibility. Thanks Patrick for trying to help.

    Kooch’s retired after 1983 and wasn’t eligible last year for the first time.

    Anyone else want to explain to boknows34 ? I’m done.

29. Tony P on February 15, 2010 at 3:02 am

    Sorry I misspoke , not his 25th year of eligibilty rather 25th year after his retirement. I hope someone give Branch a shot or he could be stuck in Senior hell. :)

30. boknows34 on February 15, 2010 at 6:34 am

    Tony P

    Kooch did not retire after 1983. He played his last game in 1983 but spent the 1984 season on Injured Reserve and is therefore credited with that season. The link I provided above from the HOF’s own website even credits him for 1984. His 5 season waiting period was 85-89 and was passed over 20 times from 1990-2009, hence why he was not on the 2010 prelim list.

    Bob Kuechenberg – Guard – 1970-1984 Miami Dolphins

    And Pro Football Reference also agrees with me that Branch will be eligible for Senior nomination from the Class of 2011.

    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=5399

    2nd para:
    ‘I’m also surprised Branch got this far this season, because starting in the HOF Class of 2011, Branch will be eligible as a Senior’s nominee.’

    If you still don’t believe me I guess you’ll just to have wait until the prelim list is released in Sept for the 2011 Class. If Branch’s name is on the list (which it won’t) I’ll buy you a beer. Why don’t you email the HOF and ask them?

31. tre on February 15, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    I thought Dent would get in before Randall so I know hes going to have to make it next year, hes next in line

    Sharpe has to get in next year, okay making him wait one year was fine but the man has 3 rings he should get in next year or it would be a crime.

    Dawson – Its always 1 olineman to get in every year it should be his year

    Reed – I think Carter was better but Reed has waited long enough I think he’ll get the nod this year with Carter next year

    Prime Time- 1st ballot what else can you say

    Faulk – I think Marshall gets the last modern day vote, played in 2 bowls won 1 and should have won the other, he gets the nod of Bettis and Martin

32. bachslunch on February 15, 2010 at 4:25 pm

    tre–

    –the HoF can only vote in a maximum of 5 modern era candidates and 2 Seniors. You’ve got 6 modern era players listed here.

    –the soonest any TE has ever been elected to the HoF is “3rd eligible year/3rd time as finalist” in the case of Kellen Winslow. It’s no crime that Shannon Sharpe has been waiting a couple years, as every other TE in has done so. “Rings” normally only boost QBs into the HoF anyway.

    –it’s not always “1 olineman to get in every year,” actually. Going back over the last 20 years, there were no o-linemen elected in 2005, 2002, 2000, 1995, 1994, or 1992. Two were inducted in 2007, 1999, 1998, 1996, and 1991. And in 2001, three got in. One might guess it will be Dermontti Dawson if one modern era o-lineman is elected in 2011, but there’s always a chance William Roaf could sneak past him on his first eligible year (though I wouldn’t count on it). Jackie Slater was indeed elected his first time out, so who knows?

    –it’s hard to say with Richard Dent. The smart money might have thought it was “his turn” this year, but John Randle and Rickey Jackson swept in instead. And Cortez Kennedy could get elected in 2011 ahead of him. Dent’s borderline anyway, with only one AP 1st team all pro selection, only 4 pro bowl appearances, and a reputation for being weak against the run, taking plays off, and getting the gravy stats while Dan Hampton tied up blockers to make it all possible. Dent may make it in anytime between next year and never, but he’s just enough of a borderline candidate that it’s tough to predict.

    –agreed that Deion Sanders is as close to a “first ballot” lock as 2011 has, and Marshall Faulk is close behind him.

33. boardgame on February 15, 2010 at 7:40 pm

    Faulk is a tough call for me as far as a first ballot choice. I think it’s real close though he certainly was that kind of player from 1999 through 2001.

    He’s certainly a no-brainer and would get in atleast by his 2nd year of eligibility anyway.

    I didn’t know about no TE had been elected until their third try, which explains probably why Sharpe missed out this year. He should be in though now ‘asap’.

    One thing about Dawson is if he doesn’t get in next year, then 2012 will be Roaf’s second try and Will Shields’ first year…..and come 2013, Larry Allen and Jonathan Ogden are first timers. I’m not sure Dawson wants to be competing as a Center vs other Guards and Tackles who seem more qualified like those above.

    I think Dawson is a no-brainer for me, but he might want to make it by next year and avoid tough competition in the future.

    Dent is 50/50 for me. It’s going to come down to how much value the voters give to the 85 Bears. I don’t think the Bears defense of the 80’s was one that carries an ever-lasting legacy, though as good as it was. The 85 Bears and the ’46’ were suppose to rule the rest of the 80’s and yet, they only had one more playoff victory the rest of the decade.

    The 86, 87 and 88 Bears all had their seasons end at Soldier Field vs teams they were suppose to beat, especially the 14-2 Bears team in 86 that was upset by the skins 27-13(I remember watching that game). The Bears defense in those losses was not especially good.

    In fact, the only playoff win for the Bears the rest of the 80’s after 85, was the ‘Fog Bowl’ in 1988 vs the Eagles.

34. boknows34 on February 15, 2010 at 9:41 pm

    boardgame:

    I agree with your analysis on Dawson. He’s certainly a no brainer and he’ll want to get inducted by the Class of 2012 before Ogden and Allen provide very stiff competition a year later. Will Shields looks like the one who will get pushed down by Dawson, Roaf, Ogden and Allen. Shields will be the last of that group of 5 to get inducted.

    TEs have indeed found it tough going before to get elected. Adding to bachslunch’s mention of Winslow Sr setting the mark at 3 years, Ozzie Newsome got in on the 4th attempt. John Mackey waited 15 years, Dave Casper 13 and Mike Ditka 12. Its only a matter of time for Sharpe. He’s made the cut down to the Last 10 for the past two Classes – as has Dent.

35. Tony P on February 15, 2010 at 10:10 pm

    Good comments! Finally a voice of reason in evaluating Dent. I don’t know what will happen but I chose to drop him from my list of Finalists. It’s certianly not a unheard of for a player to be brushed off after being in the voter’s sights for 5, 6 or 7 years. Just look at Johnny Robinson, Charlie Conerly and Jerry Kramer who looked to be on the brink of election only to be dropped. Some folks were damn persistent to support Lynn Swann so strongly over 14 years. That’s a bunch of times another player could of got a shot.

    Here’s a take on some Raiders that are falling short of the HOF that I found interesting from a Raiders site called “Thoughts from the Darkside”.

    “And what about Cliff Branch? His numbers are better than quite a few other Hall of Famers that played during his generation. He has comparable numbers to John Stallworth and far superior numbers to Lynn Swann, both of whom are in the Hall of Fame. Branch was also on three Super Bowl winning teams. He was a four time Pro Bowler and his three times as a first team All-Pro is more than Swann and Stallworth combined. He set a standard for this Raiders franchise that has never been equaled since. Not even once. Since he retired after the ’85 season, Al Davis and the Raiders have spent 25 years trying to replace him and have failed every time.

    Lester Hayes was part of the most fearsome corner tandem in the NFL while with the Raiders. He and Michael Haynes set their own standard for dominance and were the original lock down corners. Yet, despite his battery mate Haynes having his day in Canton, Hayes has been turned away every season just as Guy and Branch have.

    Then add Tom Flores, Jim Plunkett, and Todd Christensen, who didn’t make the list of 25 semi finalists and you have completed the travesty. Flores and Plunkett teamed up as coach and quarterback to win two superbowls. Plunkett remains the ONLY quarterback to have started for two Super Bowl winning teams and not be inducted in the Hall of Fame. Todd Christensen was also on those teams. And interesting fact is that Shannon Sharpe made the list of finalists this year in his first year of eligibility. Sharpe had three 1000 yard seasons in 14 years as a player in the NFL. Do you know how many Christensen had in nine seasons with the Raiders? THREE. And yet Sharpe is a first year finalist and Christensen didn’t evenmake it as a semi-finalist. Go figure.

    Then there is the fact that Ken Stabler was mysteriously not even on the list of those eiligible to be semifinalists. How does that happen? There are many who think that Stabler is the most deserving of all the Raider candidates. TFDS held a vote last season to find out who the Raider Nation thought most deserving of enshrinement and it was a dead heat between Stabler and Guy until Stabler had his DUI charge. Could that DUI from last year be the reason he was excluded this season? It is possible. But it sounds more like an excuse for the committee to shut him out completely. He should have been inducted years ago. He was an All-Pro, Super Bowl winning quarterback as well as a four time Pro Bowler. His teams rivaled the best teams of all time and any player from his generation will tell you that they would put him against anyone in the two minute drill. “

36. boknows34 on February 15, 2010 at 11:06 pm

    Stabler is another that has now slipped off the modern era candidate list and into the Senior’s pool. He was brilliant in 1974 (MVP, 1st team all-Pro, 94.9 qb rating) and 1976 (Bert Bell Award, 103.4 qb rating and Super Bowl title). He was also an All-Decade choice which is a big feather in his cap. Stabler played in 5 AFCCG and his three times as a finalist for the Hall of Fame are the second most of any quarterback not in Canton (Charley Conerly has been a finalist seven times).

    If the seniors committee decide to look at a QB I think the choice would be between Stabler and 49ers great John Brodie. He led the NFL in passing yardage and completion percentage three times, TD passes twice and QB rating once while winning MVP in 1970. At the time of his retirement following the 1973 season, Brodie ranked fourth in career passing yards (31,548) and eighth in touchdown passes (214). What’s missing from his resume is an NFL championship.

    Christensen was simply tremendous for a 4 year spell. He led the NFL in receptions twice and missed on a fourth 1,000 yd season by just 13 yds. He’s a 5/2 with 2 further 2nd team All Pros. The problem it appears for Todd is that his career outside that 5 year spell is pretty sparse. He was a late starter and and retired aged just 32 following a season of 15-190. Its the same thing that is hurting Terrell Davis’ chances. Tremendous peak but enough bulk of work it seems. Another TE I loved from the 80s was Mark Bavaro.

37. Tony P on February 16, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    Good assesment boknows34.
    I haven’t been a big supporter of Stabler but have been for Brodie. I wrote about him and actually think Brodie may of been higher on the passing yd list when he retired. Brodie made a team with a lousy history and mostly mediocre players into a respectable team that eventually returned to the Playoffs for the first time in 12 years. The 49ers only made the Playoffs twice in their 24 year history.

    I can’t get Stabler’s 13 TD- 28 Int season out of my head. That’s horrible! It was good that he had Earl Campbell on his team. It was like his arm was weaken by throwing all those long bombs to Branch in Al Davis’s Offense. He turned into a noodle arm! I don’t think he was on a good conditioning program.

    Don’t forget about Ken Anderson. I guess it’s hard to put him ahead of Stabler with his accomplishments. Anderson threw such a nice ball and he really led Cinncy with a lot of savvy later in his career. I really liked watching his WR Issac Curtis but believe he probably falls just short of the HOF. He was smooth!

    I would put Terrell Davis in the HOF just based on what I saw of him. He was an awesome downhill rusher! Once in a while like Gale Sayers and Dwight Stephenson you have to take quality over duration.

38. boknows34 on February 17, 2010 at 1:31 am

    Stabler’s poor finish in Houston and New Orleans is hurting his Canton chances. His Raiders qb rating was over 80 with a 150-143 TD/INT ratio. With the Oilers and Saints for 5 seasons the qb rating was in the 60s with a 44-79 TD/INT ratio. His recent DUIs won’t endear him to the Seniors Committee either so I think he’s a longshot to be honest.

    I would agree with the rest of the names you mention. I think Ken Anderson would probably be in the HOF already had the Bengals won SB XVI. He’ll need to rely on the Senior’s route some day but has I believe been a HOF finalist. Brodie would be a good Senior’s choice.

    Terrell Davis certainly passed the eyeball test as a HOFer. When you look at Faulk, Bettis and Martin being added to the nominees he was certainly a better player than the latter two and a better pure runner than all 3. When you consider Faulk, Bettis and Martin should all get elected, then Davis should too eventually imo. The Gale Sayers comparison is a fair one as Davis played longer and has more yds and TDs plus the two SB rings, SB MVP, league MVP and a 2k season to his resume. I prefer seeing high peak, elite players like Davis get there before Martin who will be remembered for being very good, consistent and durable for a long time. But when I make my HOF predictions I choose who I think will get elected rather than who I would vote for. In that case I would predict, like most people would I’m sure, that Martin will reach Canton before TD.

39. Tony P on February 17, 2010 at 5:52 am

    I really like T.D. but I thought Martin was sensational early in his career with the Patriots for a passing team (Bledsoe) that didn’t run block well. And Bettis early in his career had some real moves and speed (before his body shape changed. :) I basically agree but I think it’s close talent wise if you look just at the first 5 years. Of course few players in the history of the League ran as tough as T.D. Earl Campbell tough which is high praise.

    Bachslunch doesn’t like the Sayers – Davis comparison. He says because of Sayers ability to return the ball that he was a better player and had a better career. He might be right but I can’t think of anyone else to compare Davis too. Actually his career wasn’t that short but his effectiveness was after his knee injury. I believe Sayers had two knee injuries and he was essentially done. He came back pretty good from the first one in “Brian Song”.

    Another guy that came back from a knee I believe and never was the same but was still productive and significant was Ottis Anderson. Does anyone think Ottis’s career wasn’t as good as HOFer John Riggins? And how the heck doesn’t he deserve to be in the HOF? I’ve said it before, Anderson as a young man was one of the best RB’s I’ve ever seen. I used to see him routinely shred the Cowboys up and down. That’s the Cowboys that went to the Super Bowl and three straight NFC Championship games. He made the “Flex Defense” go flat like a tire.

    IMO the early 80’s to mid 80’s had the largest collection of really good RB’s – W.Payton, E.Campbell, T.Dorsett, OJAnderson, W.Andrews, W.Montgomery (one of my favs), M. Allen, E.Dickerson, J.Morris, J. Riggins, G.Rogers, C.Muncie, J.Brooks, J.Cribbs, F. McNeil, W.Tyler, C.Warner, Roger Craig and M.Pruitt. No wonder Anderson was only a 2/1 although he could of been more. Seemed like only Miami didn’t have a great RB. OK Tony Nathan was great in my book. :)

40. Tony P on February 17, 2010 at 5:58 am

    Will Dan Marino ever have a Miami WR next to him in the HOF?

41. bachslunch on February 25, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    It’s rare indeed that I’ve seen a reason to disagree with poster “boknows34,” but I will regarding the comparison of Terrell Davis and Gale Sayers. Doing a direct numbers sizing up is misleading here, as they played in very different time periods. Furthermore, keep in mind that Sayers can be considered a marginal HoF-er simply because of his short peak and short career and anything less than Sayers can be a problem in HoF consideration as a result.

    Here’s how I see it. Both Sayers and Davis played for 7 seasons. Sayers has a career that encompasses 5 excellent years and 2 useless one. Davis has 4 excellent years, one okay year, and 2 useless ones. That already puts Davis behind Sayers a bit. And the separation gets larger when you add in that Davis did not return kicks while Sayers was an elite-level kick returner. Plus Sayers never got the chance to play in the postseason.

    Davis certainly has a HoF case if you value short peaks and very short careers. Myself, I won’t be distressed if he gets elected someday, but I won’t consider it a travesty of justice if he’s left out. Part of the problem here is that post-50s short career players haven’t fared well in HoF voting in past with a few notable exceptions: Sayers, Earl Campbell, and Dwight Stephenson, for three. Note that Dick Stanfel and Mac Speedie were voted down as Seniors in the past, and neither Tony Boselli nor Sterling Sharpe have gotten any love thus far from semifinalist voters.

42. everettzip on June 29, 2010 at 12:08 am

    My first time ever in Ohio & Im here on business. Visiting the NFL HOF tomorrow. I agree with all the players you mentioned, however defensive players deserve more credit to the HOF than what they are getting. If I could I would strongly push for Charles Haley, Richard Dent, Chris Carter, Shannon Sharpe. However here is one person no one has mentioned, STEVE ATWATER!

43. chris on July 7, 2010 at 10:51 am

    my 2011 hof inductees would be marshall faulk, jerome bettis, andre reed, shannon sharpe, deion sanders, and maybe a linebacker from the senior canadates such as randy grandishar or chuck howley

44. Billy W on July 23, 2010 at 10:52 am

    There are two players that are running out of time to be inducted (non Vet committe) that I thought were great during their decade or so in the league. The first of which is Lester Hayes and the second one Stanley Morgan. Does anyone else feel this way?

45. BillyW on July 23, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    Tony P- You fogot Billy Simms, Gerlad Riggs and James Wilder

46. bachslunch on July 28, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    I can see a good case for Steve Atwater for the HoF, but the same can be said for several other eligible safeties, including Leroy Butler, Joey Browner, Kenny Easley, Cliff Harris, Johnny Robinson, Bobby Dillon, and Jimmy Patton. Folks at this position get little love from HoF voters.

    Lester Hayes will have his eligibility end soon — in fact, this likely is his last year eligible as a regular candidate. His postseason honors numbers are okay at 2(1AP)/5/80s, but given that Roger Wehrli struggled to get in his last eligible year with a profile of 5(3AP)/7/70s, that may not bode well for Hayes here. He wouldn’t be a horrible choice, though, by any means.

    Stanley Morgan is a player I’d support for the HoF, but like Billy Howton, Billy Wilson, Mac Speedie, Lionel Taylor, Del Shofner, Harold Jackson, Harold Carmichael, Cliff Branch, and Drew Pearson, he’ll likely fall short given how stringent the HoF voters with WRs in general.

47. bachslunch on July 28, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    Also, I don’t see either of Dan Marino’s major WR targets (Mark Clayton and Mark Duper) getting into the HoF. They’re caught in a second-tier logjam with players like Andre Rison, Gary Clark, and Irving Fryar, among others.

48. boknows34 on July 29, 2010 at 2:00 am

    Was just going to mention Irving Fryar when I saw Stanley Morgan mentioned. Henry Ellard is another from that era that is caught in the logjam. The likes of Rod Smith, Jimmy Smith, Muhsin Muhammed and Keenan McCardell will eventually have the same problem of not quite being at a HOF level despite some impressive numbers. Derrick Mason will be in that category too of Very Good but not quite Canton level.

    They will be forgotten men when Randy Moss, TO, Marvin Harrison, Isaac Bruce, Torry Holt and Hines Ward all become eligible eventually with superior numbers. And then there’s the next wave of OchoCinco, Steve Smith and Reggie Wayne who could all finish with over 900 catches. Looking way ahead I would say Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald are certainly on the HOF path.

49. bachslunch on August 4, 2010 at 8:29 am

    The one thing Irving Fryar (in theory) has going for him in HoF consideration over Clayton, Duper, Rison, Clark, et. al. is that he was a top-notch kick returner. However, arguably one of the biggest strikes against Fryar is that he will (fairly, as their careers overlapped a good bit) be compared to Tim Brown, who was also a solid KR and has more impressive receiving numbers. Brown likely is getting in the HoF down the road, but I’ve got doubts about Fryar.

50. RUNNER on August 5, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    Anyone ever really think of martin or bettis as ONE OF THE GREATEST EVER without looking at their cummlative numbers? not me. not hof games just for lasting so long

51. RUNNER on August 5, 2010 at 5:55 pm

    not hof guys-it should say

52. tony p on August 7, 2010 at 3:04 am

    Billyw- I mentioned Lester Hayes at the top of my response. I love Lester “the Molester” but I don’t think he will make into the HOF. He seems to be losing support.

    When his HOF teammate Mark Haynes joined the Raiders I believe it took away some of the shine from what Lester was doing as the media made him the “other CB”. He still got the acolades but much less acclaim. Everyone instead wanted to focus on how how int.’s dropped after the ban of stick’em. Dumb, whose going to throw near a guy that had 13 int’s in a year?One could definetly argue that Lester put together one of the finest season by any CB in NFL history in 1980 when he carried the Raiders to a NFL Championship from a Wildcard position. He not only was awesome in the regular season but was equally great in the post-season. I have no problem with his election if it happened.

    As for Billy Simms, I’ve equally praised him. He hit the League with a splash like few others which would include Gale Sayers and Earl Campbell. Unfortunately injury killed his career too soon and the NFL tends to be really hung up on the number of years of greatness. They should base it on the position the player performs like IMO 4 or 5 HOF caliber should be enough for the RB position, especially for the pre-1990 RB’s. Before 1990 the defenses focused more on stopping the run. I believe since the games is more wide open the RB’s on many teams find their running space easier. So even though I would elect guys like Billy Sims, Wilbert Montgomery, OJ Anderson and maybe a couple others who had shorter years of greatness before injuries took their toll I don’t believe the Voters will be incline to. These guys were HOF great never the less.

    James Wilder was an elusive back on a bad team and not a HOF caliber guy IMO. Neither was Riggs or the “Dirty Bird” Jamal Anderson but I’d give strong consideration to Atlanta’s William Andrews who was great every down of his pro career until one crippling knee injury. He was the second in the long line of great Auburn RB’s behind the original Joe Cribbs but beforeBo Jackson, Ronnie Brown and Cadillac Williams . I can talk RB’s all day :)

    bachslunch, you know I hate it when you talk about my Dolphins. Maybe I’m a bit soft but I just have to believe that that either Clayton or Duper will be recognized as HOFers on day. Marino knows they desreve it because as great as he was he was off target a lot and the acrobatic catches those undersized 5’9″ WR’s made were remarkable. I think Duper and Marino were the first or I’ll say among the most successful in history for the underthrown deep pass. Usually that play is now reserved a big WR. How exciting is it to see a 5’9″ guy outmanuever his opponent every time!! I will take them over Stallworth and Swann everyday of the week. That’s my best argument !!:) To ad the voters can’t put them both in for what they accomplished. Have you ever seen a set of WR’s on a team with such equally great stats?

    You say, “Stanley Morgan is a player I’d support for the HoF, but like Billy Howton, Billy Wilson, Mac Speedie, Lionel Taylor, Del Shofner, Harold Jackson, Harold Carmichael, Cliff Branch, and Drew Pearson, he’ll likely fall short given how stringent the HoF voters with WRs in general.”

    Most of those guys deserve to be in the HOF. Maybe not Mac Speedie based on his stats if I recall correctly. I didn’t see him play. How in the world have Branch and Pearson fallen short. Some may say Fred Bliendikolf or another player (Chris Carter) but I’ve never seen a better WR than Pearson at getting his toes down for those sideline routes. Period! And it seemed like during the 70’s that a bomb from Stabler to Branch was shown on practically every MNF Halftime reel that I used to watch. That 5 minute Howard Cosell review of Sunday’s games and Saturday’s NFL in Review with Pat Summerall and Tommy Brookshire was usually the only chance to get a glimpse of your favorite team. Wow, glued to the TV set for a chance to see your team for a few seconds. Times have certianly changed. I would go on but I might sound like my parents. :)

    Bettis was awfully good with the Rams and Pitt.! He hung around so long you tend not to remember the younger slimmed down version. Same for Martin. Those years with the Jets of 4 yards and a cloud of dust weren’t too exciting but when he played for the Pats and early with the Jets he was awesome. He’s a certian HOF player in my book. Bettis is outspoken and a bit polarizing. He will have to wait for a long time if it happens at all. He really only had 4 -1,000 yd seasons if you revert back to the 14 game standard. I can tell you back in the day if you didn’t get 1,000 yds you were nothing special to talk about. 1,000 was the gold standard. Unless maybe you were more skilled like a Floyd Little. LOL!!

    So let me see, Little got into the HOF because he was the only good player on his team and thus his popularity kept the Broncos in Denver. Sounds like a good reason to select him to me. Not!!! It only took the HOF voters 30 years to recognize that, old Floyd is the HOF player we’ve been missing. Now there’s a well kept secret. Hmmm! And in plain sight playing the highest profile position next to QB on the team. He’s either the biggest snub in history or some funny business went on in 2010. :) He never made the Finalist list as a modern player. :( Do we know if he ever was part of the list of 25? If he wasn’t that would be truly remarkable that no one ever thought enough of his skill to be on that list. That’s what makes me think snub or funny business.

    Any how, Bettis couldn’t catch a lick which should go against him. Most of his fame with the Steelers the last half of his career was being put into position to get TD’s. You don’t need to average 4 yards a carry to do that! Besides there are plenty of RB’s in line who should be viewed ahead of “The Bus”. A Bus gets you there but not the quickest. :) A breakdown is highly possible. Really the Bus should best be compared to John Riggins. If you think Bettis was better than I’d put him in the HOF.

    Ellard and Morgan should make it if there’s justice.

    I would not vote for Muhammed. McCardell, Mason, Ochocinco, Jimmy Smith (huge fantasy guy) and Hines Ward (bubble guy). I liked the Marino to Fryar connection. Maybe if he was with Miami early in his career he’d be in the HOF already. Kind of thought of as aloof. The most talented pro WR from Nebraska ever. A real disappointmen for NE early in his career. Probably most well known for severely cutting his finger right before the SB against the Bears.

    I would vote hands down for Timmy Brown, Issac Bruce, T.O. errr!, Harrison errr!, Steve Smith err!, Holt, Moss and Andre Johnson election into the HOF (Wayne and Fitzgerald on the verge).

    Now for my usual rant. LOL! Cris Carter should make it but I would make Cris Carter wait and wait. Preferrably he is elected in the year after Randy Moss. A good dose of humble pie. He’s not playing anymore so he can take that chip off his shoulder and let the voters decide his fate. I will never think his talent is close to the over blown stats he was fortunate in piling up. TD’s are something that any pro player can make if given an opportunity. Especially a WR. They are not usually a good indicator of a players HOF skill other than proving it was a needed part of their game.

    For example: No one in their right mind would say Cris Carter was a better player than :The Playmaker” Michael Irving but Carter scored twice as many TD’s or 130 to 65. That means what? Nothing and apparently the well informed voters are aware of that. Thank God! Otherwise Carter would be in lickedly split.

    I can however think of couple examples of TD’s being possibly the deciding factor for a player going into the HOF.

    They are 13,24,14 and 8 TD’s in 4 of his last 5 years of play despite only 1 career All-Pro/PB and a best 3.8 yards a carry over that time. The glamour of those 59 TD’s, two SB appearances and a famous 4th qtr SB winning TD run behind one of the best OL’s in NFL history no doubt cemented the HOF for someone considered a good journeyman FB up to that point with 41 total TD’s over his 9 year career. One must wonder if John Riggins continued with his average TD pace adding 20 more instead of feeding him on the goal line for 59 if he still be a HOFer?

    The other example started out famously but things became checkered by mid-career and with only a couple of outstanding years he would not of been a HOF pick by anyone I don’t think. However he hung around and hung around gaining attention on a good team and collecting TD’s (123 rushing – 21 receiving) like loose change. This shifty hard nosed runner made his mark on the goal. Over his last 12 years he never surpassed the 1,000 yard mark once. I liked Marcus Allen’s style but like Cris Carter if you take away the TD’s and one or two remarkable seasons one would have to wonder where’s the beef?

    These two players are remarkably alike but one was a media darling while the other was ego driven to disdain by fans and players alike. If I had to pick the better career I’d have to go with Carter. Allen to me was a marginal HOFer yet he waited ZERO years to be selected. This might say to Mr. Carter that what goes around comes around. I think you’ll have a long wait!!

53. bachslunch on August 8, 2010 at 7:18 pm

    Runner:

    Why shouldn’t we check stats before considering a RB for the HoF? That’s just an excuse to put forth arguments like “if my gut doesn’t tell me he’s a Hall of Famer, he just isn’t.” That’s hooey. Numbers put in good context can tell us a lot about skill position players.

    And who says a player has to be the “greatest ever” to be HoF worthy? That’s a pretty small hall if you’ve only got the best RB of all time in there.

    Plus there’s plenty of value in having a long and strong career. The HoF isn’t just about awesome peak performance careers, or players like Charlie Joyner wouldn’t be there.

    I’m fine with both Curtis Martin and Jerome Bettis being in the HoF when their time comes.

    tony p:

    Several good points made immediately above. Just a couple thoughts to consider.

    You said re Mark Clayton or Mark Duper for the HoF “I will take them over Stallworth and Swann everyday of the week. That’s my best argument !!:) ” Well okay, but you know as well as I do that any pro-HoF argument comparing one’s favorite snub to one of the HoF’s borderline members is not a strong argument. :-)

    The thing to remember about Mac Speedie is that his career is greatly shortened because of a very late start (in 1946 at age 26 because of duty in the US Army) and he bolted to the CFL seven years later where he put up two more stellar years before his career ended because of injury. He’s the poster boy for careers that are short but have hugely high peaks. Give another look at his stats and compare to his contemporaries:

    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SpeeMa00.htm

    If you’re at all supportive of WRs such as Sterling Sharpe or Del Shofner or RBs such as Terrell Owens for the HoF, Speedie is their analogue.

54. steven on August 8, 2010 at 7:48 pm

    wheres Ray Guy. Punters deserve some love. He revolutionized the punting game and should get in

55. Billy W on August 9, 2010 at 8:06 am

    How are you folks feeling about “Vet Picks” this year? If I had to nominate two players it would probably be Chris Hanburger and Pete Retzlaff? I’ve heard others predict Jerry Kramer and Bob Kuechenberg. Another great player that gets overlooked is L.C Greenwood.

56. tony p on August 9, 2010 at 9:29 am

    I would like to see Johnny Robinson and Harvey Martin this year

57. tony p on August 9, 2010 at 9:42 am

    bachslunch,
    You’re correct about my comparing my fav, “The Mark Brothers” to weaker resumes that have made the HOF. That was not a serious argument but rather a cheapshot like I’m one to do on occasion. LOL

    Do you or anyone else out there think it’s a little strange that Marcus Allen made the HOF so quickly when there are other RB’s still waiting that seem to be better??

58. Paul on August 9, 2010 at 10:29 am

    Tony are you familiar with the career of Marcus Allen? 12th in career rushing and 6th in career TDs? And when he retired and was elected he was even higher on those lists as players from the current offensive age of football pass him. Why would anyone think it strange that he is in the HOF? What other RBs have better career numbers then Allen and thus more deserving of HOF?

    And Clayton ranks #63 in receptions, Duper #102. There are at least a dozen other players who played during the late 1970s through 1980s who have better numbers, more playoff catches and Super Bowls, All Pro and Pro Bowls. Sorry they may be members of the Hall of Very Good but will never make the HOF.

59. Paul on August 9, 2010 at 10:35 am

    “Anyone ever really think of martin or bettis as ONE OF THE GREATEST EVER without looking at their cummulative numbers? not me. not hof games just for lasting so long”

    Martin is #4 all time in rushing yards and in a 11 year career had 10 straight 1,000 year seasons (including 1697 in year 10 at 31old). Very impressive numbers matched by only a few others in the history of the game.

    Bettis is #5 all time rushing and eight 1000 yard seasons, again very impressive.

    Both are sure HOFers

60. Paul on August 9, 2010 at 10:38 am

    From Peter Kings column today…

    “When the five-man Seniors Committee meets later this month to determine the two other candidates to be considered by the 44 voters next February, the names with the most traction would appear to be one at linebacker — Chris Hanburger, Chuck Howley or Maxie Baughan (did you know Baughan was voted to the Pro Bowl eight more times than Ray Nitschke?) — and an offensive lineman … maybe Jerry Kramer or Dick Stanfel. I hear lots of sentiment for Hanburger.”

    Reading this I would have to suspect that Kramer and Hanburger are likely senior candidates for 2011.

61. Tony on August 9, 2010 at 11:06 am

    Paul – To be fair, Tony P. asked (not stated) if anyone thought it strange that Allen made it into the HOF so quickly (first year eligible), when their are other RBs still waiting that seem better (not sure who he’s referring to exactly, without going back through his notes).

    I’ll be honest, without looking at his stats, if you’d asked me if Allen was a first ballot guy, I probably would have said no. Looking at his numbers, clearly there can be an argument made for his first year election, but I was surprised to see he got in that quick, based on my memories of him. Not surprised he got in, just that he was a first year guy.

62. Tony on August 9, 2010 at 11:11 am

    Paul – If you only got to choose one (for a particular year), who would you put in first of Martin/Bettis? Martin had slightly(?) better stats and was a full time starter his whole career, Bettis had the Super Bowl and better postseason profile, but was also essentially a situational guy the last few years of his career.

63. Paul on August 9, 2010 at 11:24 am

    I never make a big issue of the first year election issue, it always really depends on the 15 finalists each year as to whether someone is a first year inductee. These election are always a numbers game as to only 5 slots open for modern players and weighing the qualifications and debates over first year players versus those that have been on the ballot for previous years.

    As to Martin vs Bettis, I would select Martin based on better career numbers, ten 1000 seasons is very impressive. Actually for the 2011 election I would select Faulk over both Martin and Bettis.

64. tony p on August 10, 2010 at 11:03 am

    Exactly my point Tony. :) Historically the first time election is reserved for the cream of the crop. Three 1,000 yd seasons doesn’t cut it IMO. He got in on longevity and number of TD’s which I still believe is the weakest of the categories. I’ll take career of 5.0 yard per carry or 10 straight 1,000 yd seasons over 100 TDs anyday. Also I think the whole Al Davis saga must of had something to do with an Allen push. Paul, as far as the first year selection, it is a big deal. No one would make Jerry Rice or Emmit Smith wait. Certian players deserve it and there is no denying it. If you don’t think it’s a big deal just ask a player like Cris Carter. :)

    IMO using the eyeball test, Martin was the more skilled player than Bettis. If were going by career yardage where do we draw the line? At 11,000, 10,000? And what about the RB’s that were great receivers? Seems like these guys all have the yards to go into the HOF: L Tomlinson, J Bettis, C Martin, Edg James, R Watters, M Faulk,T Barber, F Taylor, J Lewis, W Dunn, C Dillon, O Anderson, E George. And what would be the pecking order? How many should be 1st time selections like Allen? And finally, why the hell isn’t Ottis Anderson in the HOF? I will never believe he was inferior to Marcus Allen. He has over 10,000 yards and was #7 on the rushing list when he retired.

65. Billy on August 10, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    just chiming in, but I saw Marcus Allen play a lot early on in his career and he was a better runner than Tony Dorsett and was in the Thurman Thomas class as a receiver. Remember he was in Al Davis’s doghouse for 3 seasons. He ended his career with the chiefs and still went to the Pro bowl with them late in his career. Along with Walter Payton, he was the best at jumping over the line into the end zone I have ever seen. They would often attempt that plat from the 3 yard line. And finally the guy showed up in the playoffs and the Super Bowl.

    Having said that, I am also a believer that Ottis Anderson is HOF caliber. he was special for the cardinals and still pretty da*n good for Giants.

    I believe Faulk gets in this year and Bettis next year. Martin may have to wait one more year, as I beleive after Faulk gets in there is going to be a ground swell to get Roger Craig in the HOF.

    Tomlinson will get in whenever he retires, and Edgerin james may have a chance far down the road, when they start looking at getting Colts in besides Manning, Harrison and Freeney. Terrell Davis has “Vet Commitee” written all over him 20 years from now.

    I don’t like Barber, Waters, George, Lewis, Dunn, as possibilities ans I am still undecided on F. Taylor and C Dillon.

66. Billy on August 10, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    Hanburger and Stanfill would be worthy of the Hall of Fame both players shoud have been in long before now!

67. Paul on August 10, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    Marcus Allen was the only major 1st year finalist the year he was eligible so that year the numbers played in his favor, and his record career touchdowns (and receiving numbers) gave him the edge. Remember players are judged based on the era in which they played and his career numbers (yards, TDs, receptions, and SuperBowl MVP) all played in his favor.

    My point on first year selection is that with only 5 slots each year there are always going to be great players deserving of the HOF who did not get in in their first year, this has happened numerous times with HOF players. And while Chris Carter may think he is deserving of such status, but there is much debate over his HOF career to begin with regardless of the first year selection status.

    With the rushing yards put up by many RBs and the receiving yards put up by many WRs in the years since 1980s, separating players into HOF vs non-HOF will increasingly depend on several other factors such as TDs, number of All Pro selections, Pro Bowls, and playoff (Superbowl) numbers. I have no doubt that you will see some 10,000 yard RBs and 800+ reception WRs not make the HOF in future years since 1000 yard and 80 reception seasons over 10+ year careers are becoming much more common, and just wait until the NFL goes to 18 game season.

68. Paul on August 10, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    There are already 6 RBs from the 1980s in the HOF all with better numbers then Ottis Anderson (who currently ranks #24 on career rushing list). Anderson made 1 All Pro and just 2 Pro Bowls, on all numbers he falls short of the other 6 already elected. He may make the HOF same day as a senior candidate, but I doubt before then.

69. Paul on August 10, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    Just as an interesting side note: there are numerous players from the Teams of the Decades for the 1970s, 1980s and 1980s (selection of the top 2-4 players from each position by the PFWA) still not in the HOF.

70. tony p on August 12, 2010 at 6:45 am

    Paul, great points throughout! I especially like your view regarding the 10,000 yd rushers. And Billy my man LOL, no one mentions Bill Stanfill but me. :) Thanks, he was a great player who got little noteriety when he played except at PB selection time. He played on such a great team offensively that few remember that statistically the early 70’s Dolphins had one of the best Defenses in NFL history. They were an amazing bend without breaking unit.

    Do you guys remember the list I made up projecting all of the future HOF picks based on the number of selections from the past picks? I’ll print it out again below to create some discussion. I did a lot of research making lost of tough picks and I’ll stick by my choices, I think. LOL!! So far my good pick not on many radars was this years Rickey Jackson. I think I said there would likely be only one more 80’s LB put in the HOF and it would be between Jackson and Kevin Greene. I hope I’m now wrong because Greene clearly deserves his place.

    At some point I’m hopeful that the voters will recognize the great nose tackles that came about in the 70’s with the advent of the 3-4 defenses. They are so important to the game now and there are zero in the HOF. As a pioneer in the position, Culy Culp was one of the first great NT/NG starting on the KC Chiefs SB winning team and later being a jugnaut along with Elvin Bethea on the Houston Oilers defensive line.

    Once thought of as profound idea, give me your opinion of RB Ricky Williams’s HOF chances. This year he could close out his 10 year career with another 1,000 plus yard seasons (pushing him over (10,000) and 10 TD’s (80 TD’s). He had one of the greatest seasons for a RB in NFL history in 2002 with 383 1853 16 4.8 115.8 Rushing and 47 363 7.7 1 Receiving. The next year his team continued to literally run him into the ground with an astonishing 392 more carries for 1372 yds 9 Tds and a 3.5 yds per carry. The low yds per carry and the number of carries equaled one beat up body!! Few backs have been that durable, Run Ricky Run!!!

    Yup, sometimes it’s really hard to find enough great players for the Team of the Decades.

71. tony p on August 12, 2010 at 7:12 am

    HOF Offensive Unit

    Quarterback
    60(1) Billy Kilmer
    70(2) Ken Anderson and Phil Simms
    90(5) Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, Donovan McNabb, Steve McNair and Kurt Warner

    Running Back
    60(1) Floyd Little
    70(1) Chuck Foreman
    80(2) Roger Craig and James Brooks
    90(5) Emmitt Smith, Marshall Faulk, Curtis Martin, Ricky Watters and Edgerrin James.

    Wide Receiver
    70(3) Drew Pearson, Cliff Branch and Stanley Morgan
    80(4) Jerry Rice, Cris Carter, Tim Brown and Henry Ellard
    90(4) Issac Bruce, Marvin Harrison, Randy Moss and Terrell Owens

    Guard
    60(1) Jim Tyrer
    70(1) Bob Kuechenberg
    80(3) Russ Grimm, Bill Fralic and Nate Newton
    90(3) Larry Allen, Will Shields and Allen Faneca

    Tackle
    70(2) Leon Gray and Russ Washington
    80(2) Lomas Brown and Joe Jacoby
    90(3) Jonathan Ogden, Wille Roaf and Richmond Webb

    Center
    60(1) Mick Tinglehoff
    80(2) Jay Hilgenberg and Bart Oates
    90(2) Kevin Mawae and Tom Nalen

    Tight End
    70(1) Riley Odoms
    80(2) Shannon Sharpe and Keith Jackson
    90(3) Tony Gonzalez, Jay Novacek, and Ben Coates

    HOF Defensive Unit

    Defensive Tackle
    70(3) Joe Klecko, Fred Smerlas and Bob Baumhower
    80(3) Steve McMichael, Ray Childress Jr and Neil Smith
    90(4) Cortez Kennedy, Warren Sapp, John Randle and Bryant Young

    Defensive End
    60(1) L.C. Greenwood
    70(1) Harvey “Too Mean” Martin
    80(2) Richard Dent and Chris Doleman
    90(5) Jason Taylor, Michael Strahan, Simeon Rice, Hugh Douglas and Aaron Smith

    Linebacker
    60(1) Bill Bergey
    70(2) Isiah Robertson and Randy Gradishar
    80(1) Rickey Jackson
    90(5) Ray Lewis, Derrick Brooks, Junior Seau, Zach Thomas and Joey Porter

    Cornerback
    70(3) Lemar Parrish, Louis Wright and Ken Riley
    80(2) Deion Sanders and Eric Allen
    90(3) Aeneas Williams, Ronde Barber and Champ Bailey

    Safety
    60(1) Johnny Robinson
    70(3) Jake Scott, Cliff Harris and Donnie Shell
    80(2) Steve Atwater and Joey Browner
    90(3) LeRoy Butler, Brian Dawkins and Darren Sharper

    Punter
    60(1) Jerrel Wilson
    70(1) Ray Guy
    80(1) Reggie Roby
    90(1) Tom Rouen

    Place Kicker
    60(1) Garo Yepremian
    70(2) Mark Mosley and Pat Leahy
    80(2) Morten Anderson and Gary Anderson
    90(2) Adam Vinatieri and Jason Elam

    Please DON’T judge this team based on who’s not on it but rather if you think the player may some day be in the HOF. I tried to pick the player I thought had the best chance. I’m not viewing players left off as not being worthy. Some positions have multiple good choices.:)

    Give me the number of players you think won’t make the HOF. If go against a player, please suggest a replacement. No explanation needed!! However the team owner is allowed ONE rebuttal to change the mind of the grader.

72. Billy on August 13, 2010 at 9:47 am

    I would take off isaih Robertson and add Chris Hanburger
    I would add Robert Brazille to the LB list of the 70’s
    I would stike Hugh Doulass and Aaron Smith and replace them with Leslie O’Neal
    I would strike Ken Riley and replace with Lester Hayes
    I would replace Jim Tyrer with Jerry Kramer
    I would replace James Brooks with Ottis Anderson
    I would replace Billy Kilmer with John Hadl
    I would add Charlie Connerly to list of early QB’s
    I would add Otis Taylor to a WR list of the 60’s
    I would replace Joey Porter with Cornelius Bennett
    I would put Pete Retzlaff on a 60’s TE list
    And finally I’m just not sure of any of the spec. teams players except for Morten Anderson and Adam Vinatieri

    Great list to work off of though

73. Billy on August 13, 2010 at 9:55 am

    My first instinct on Ricky Williams would be to say “No Way” his attitude alone would keep him out of the HOF, but I took a closer look and he has had a remarkable career. Also isn’t Ronnie brown hurt? What would it look like if ricky put up 1500 yards and 14 Td’s plus another 300 yards receiving…it would really make you think! By the time he is done, his career numbers could look very much like Marshall Faulk’s

74. bachslunch on August 13, 2010 at 11:31 am

    tony p, just so you know, Jim Tyrer was an OT, not an OG above.

75. bachslunch on August 13, 2010 at 11:41 am

    Billy, there’s no question Ricky Williams has had some excellent seasons, with an especially fine 2002 on his resume. But I’m not sure he’s getting into the HoF unless he strings together several more solid seasons — and at age 33, that’s not too likely.

    Consider that Williams’s numbers look a lot like those of his more or less peer Clinton Portis, and then consider that Portis will likely struggle to get in the HoF. Then look at Edgerrin James, another contemporary RB with notably better totals than either — and consider that even he might have a tough time getting elected as well.

    Had Ricky kept his act together and played at the level of his better seasons from 2004 to 2008, we might well be talking HoF for him. Too bad.

76. tony p on August 13, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    Ricky has said that this year is definetly his last year. He had 526 yds with 4.9 yds per carry in 11 games for Toronto of the CFL in 2006. I agree that his career is not of HOF stature without a little more consistency.

    Billy. A few of the differences you point out are comparing players I have in different decades. The way I indentified a player in this GAME was – he was from a particular decade depending on the year he started his career. I did blow my own system with my Riley pick whose career started in 1969. I would pick Lester Hayes for the 70’s. However Hansburger is from the 60’s and Robertson is from the 70’s. Based on my definition of a player decade I’ve picked Bill Bergy for the last 60’s selection. I suppose you would argue that pairing too. :) We also disagree on Billy Kilmer over Hadl. Once again, this was a Game and I’m not saying Hadl isn’t HOF worthy or a no way. I just think Kilmer is more likely. You’re suppose to tell me what player I have that are a no way man!!

    In some cases it was hard to fill the number of spots I projected like with Douglas and Aaron Smith. Douglas is especially a stretch. O’Neil is a good pick but he was 80’s player. I picked Richard Dent and Chris Doleman as being more likely HOF selections. Ottis Anderson is a 70’s player. Foreman was the better pick. Bennett is an 80’s player and Porter a 90’s. With only one pick left for the 1980’s I chose Rickey Jackson over Bennett and Kevin Greene. A very tough pick!

    I feel really good that Robertson will one day be elected to the HOF. He was a great player! So great that Coach Knox took him along with to the Bills where their Defense became very good not by accident for a time. Furthermore, I’m very surprised that the Rams who IMO next to the Steelers had consistantly the greatest Defenses of the 70’s have only one player in the HOF. They also had a great running game with McCutchenson and Bertelson but never had the consistency at QB to get them over the hump.

    bachslunch. You’re right about Tyrer. Not sure why I did that! I would replace with Jerry Kramer.

77. boknows34 on August 15, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    I would add one pass rushing 80s LB Kevin Greene and remove a pass rushing 90s DE Simeon Rice. Agree with Billy as well in adding O’Neal over Douglas and Smith.

    Both Walter Jones and Orlando Pace should be ahead of Richmond Webb. Jones, especially, and Pace have a far better case for Canton than Webb, who is unlikely to come close.

    Shannon Sharpe was drafted in the 90s and I’d put Todd Christensen in the 80s list.

    I’dd add Kent Hull and remove Bart Oates at center.
    I’dd add Steve Wisniewski and maybe Max Montoya instead of Fralic or Newton.
    I’dd add Jim Lachey, 3-time 1st team All-Pro, over Lomas Brown who never made a Pro Bowl until Barry Sanders arrived in Motown.

    What about Sam Mills and Clay Matthews for the LB listings?

    A lot of good DBs not on Tony’s list like Albert Lewis, Ty Law, Kenny Easley, Darren Woodson and John Lynch. There is quite a logjam of really good players at safety.

78. tony p on August 16, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    Does Bo know how dominating Simeon Rice was with the Cardinals and than with the Tampa Bay Bucs SB winning Team? :) I will concede Webb is not a lock but I liked the fact he was endorsed by Bruce Smith as being the best OL player he faced in his career. LT is certianly a talent rich position.

    IMO, some guys you mentioned Kenny Easley and Albert Lewis were sensational much like a shooting star not lasting long enough to reach HOF status. Other guys I don’t disagree with like Cowboy GREAT – Darren Woodson . But it’s hard to say he has a better chance than Aeneas Williams, Ronde Barber and Champ Bailey. Especially when bachslunch who’s opinion I value is not a strong supporter. :) Also John Lynch going up against LeRoy Butler, Brian Dawkins and Darren Sharper. Ty Law is a good pick also!

    Hull over Oates is apples vs oranges. Neither is a HOF player. I just thought Oates was a character with the Gaints and 49ers. Lunch bucket head! LOL!!

    I liken Clay Mattews to the greats – Jim Marshall or Jethro Pugh. I don’t see it happening.

    Lachey, Christiansen, and Wisniewski are not likey to get the popular support needed. Especially Lachey. Was Christiansen was one of a group of pioneering pass cathing TE’s from the 1980’s who surpassed the WR’s as a weapon. Now almost every team has an athletic TE like him. If I remember correctly he began his career with the Raiders as a RB from BYU.

79. boknows34 on August 16, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    Tony P

    I’m more than aware of Simeon Rice’s impact but I just like Leslie O’Neal more as a DE and also Kevin Greene’s chances of Canton over those of Rice. In fact Neil Smith is another DE with a very nice career but comes up short of the HOF.

    I’m also not a great supporter of any of those guys I mentioned and I’d agree that the 3 guys you picked at CB have the best chance. I just thought they were excellent players who deserved a mention at the very least in what is a very deep DB group.

    Bailey will get elected and I think Aeneas will too though he may face a very long wait, much like Roger Wehrli. Of the Bucs defenders from their SB winning team, Sapp and Brooks will get enshrined. After those two I believe Barber will be the 3rd guy to be considered over Lynch and Rice. Ronde is borderline and probably leaning below the line. Wouldn’t be upset at all if he never got in but wouldn’t be surprised if he did eventually….after a very long wait. Butler, Dawkins, Woodson, Sharper and Lynch? Like I said a real logjam at DB, especially at safety and especially with Ed Reed’s name some day appearing on the ballot – probably by the end of the decade.

    Oates or Hull? Yeah, apples and oranges probably. I just prefered Hull, who was a 4 time All-Pro, two of them 1st team honours. I agree that Wisniewski is unlikely to make it despite having an excellent resume. He had 8 Pro Bowls, 2 1st team All-Pros, 6 2nd team All-Pros and was a member of the 1990s team as 2nd team guard. That certainly gives him the nod over Fralic and Newton. However I believe there will only be room for 4 interior linemen from that 90s era – Matthews and McDaniel are already there with Dawson and Larry Allen definitely next in line with a great chance of election. Correction – 5 when you include Will Shields, who is eligible in 2012.

    PS You still think Cliff Branch will be on the 2011 modern era preliminary list? ;)

80. tony p on August 17, 2010 at 12:44 am

    Good points. I believe Bruce Matthews would be considered an 80’s era player much like Bruce Smith or should it be the decade the player had his most success or the decade he played most of his career in???

    I would think that Cliff Branch is gaining momentum.

81. boknows34 on August 17, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    Matthews was part of the legendary Class of 83 but most of his honours came in the 90s. But like you say Tony I would not have a problem calling him an 80s player too as he played for most of that decade.

    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MattBr00.htm

    Smith was drafted 1985 and is one of those rare players to make two All-Decade teams. Both Matthews and Smith two of just 5 players to be unanimous choices in the 90s team. Rice, Barry and Reggie White the others.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_1990s_All-Decade_Team

82. Billy on August 18, 2010 at 8:09 am

    Believe me, I don’t think Ricky Williams will ever be considered for the HOF. I am just saying that, his numbers are not far off of HOF caliber. I Was more in making the point that you can’t always go by the numbers. Players have to pass the eye test as well.

83. Billy on August 18, 2010 at 8:14 am

    Also Ottis Anderson played from 1979-1992. Iwould definately consider him an 80’s RB

84. tony p on August 18, 2010 at 10:51 am

    Billy,
    I’ll have to respectfully disagree. Wow, not even considered! Are you freakin kidding me about Ricky Williams not passing the eye test? I hope there aren’t many others that feel that way.

    Run Ricky Run!! He runs over and through defenders gaining BIG chunks of yards behind a mediocre OL much of the time. He’s as exciting as Hell. IMO his 2002 season caught the imagination of NFL fans like few others. And I got it wrong, Ricky has said he will continue to play past this year if he remains healthy.

    I’m 1.000 percent behind O.J. He made my “No Respect Team” on the 2010 thread. Other than Hansburger and Lester Hayers I can’t think of a guy that is more mentioned for the HOF. Lets hope he gets his. He defintely passed the eye test early in his career.

85. bachslunch on August 18, 2010 at 11:25 am

    Billy, could you please elaborate on this statement you made?

    “Players have to pass the eye test as well.”

    Many thanks.

86. bachslunch on August 18, 2010 at 11:35 am

    Re Clay Matthews: I’m thinking he’s going to have tough LB competition for the HoF from several contemporaries. His postseason profile is 1(0AP)/4/none.

    Now compare his honors profile to LB contemporaries such as:

    Kevin Greene 3(2AP)/5/90s
    Cornelius Bennett 3(1AP)/5/90s
    Karl Mecklenburg 4(3AP)/6/none
    Charles Haley 2(2AP)/5/none

    Not sure I see a compelling case to vault him over these other players.

87. tony p on August 19, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    Regarding Matthews, not to mention the LB position in the HOF from the 80’s time period has already been saturated with the likes of Tippett, Taylor, Carson, Singletary and now Jackson already representing. Probably next LB’s in will be Hansburger, Howley, Brazile, Gradishar, Greene and Haley along with the more current ones. LB’s are certianly well represented. :) One would be hard pressed to say Matthews is the best Brown in HOF waiting.

    Bachslunch, with your vast knowledge I’d be interested in a list of HOF “weak” players that you think have made it to the HOF over the last 20 years.

88. boknows34 on August 20, 2010 at 12:15 am

    ”Probably next LB’s in will be Hansburger, Howley, Brazile, Gradishar, Greene and Haley along with the more current ones.”

    I would agree with this Tony. Hansburger and Howley would be very high up on my best available Seniors List. Dent, Doleman, Greene and Haley appear to be next in line for the modern era DL/LB candidates. Maybe its time for the Seniors committee to look at LBs again. The last one to be nominated was Nick Buoniconti back in 2001.

    Bennett and Mecklenburg have had very little support so far and do indeed have better honours than Mills and Matthews. I would not have voted for either of those guys but seeing your list looked a bit bare for the 80s and Jackson has been elected I just threw their names out there.

89. Billy on August 20, 2010 at 7:49 am

    When I say “eye test,” what I mean is when you see him play and you don’t know his numbers, do you think greatness! For example. Charlie Joiner is in the HOF and he was an exceptional WR. He made the Pro Bowl 6 times and had over 12,000 receiving yards for his career, but not once when he was playing did I say to myself, definite Hall of Famer. After years of accumulating numbers and looking back on his career when it was over, I can see why he was chosen, but I may not have voted him in. Then you could take a guy like Paul Warfield who caught half of the passes Joiner did for about 2/3 the yard jopiner had, but you new every time you saw him step on the field, he was a hall of fame receiver!

    Another example is Dave Kreig and Vinny Testeverde have some of the best QB numbers ever! But for anyone who watched their careers wouldn’t even consider them for the Hall of Very good! They don’t pass the “eye test.”

    Back to the original point about Ricky Williams, he has been great at turning his career around, but the gut has no chance at the HOF…None!

90. Billy on August 20, 2010 at 7:51 am

    Sorry Ricky- Thay should be “guy” not gut” in the last posting.

91. tony p on August 20, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    Billy, are you a Jets, Bills or Patriots, Sooners or Aggie fan? LOL. It’s your opinion and I respect you for sticking to it. Although I’m not sure what Ricky’s 2002’s eye test has to do with any kind of come back. Sounds like you just didn’t appreciate his style or ability.

    Is it possible you don’t like a professional athlete that gave up millions of dollars to drop out on his team and fans to smoke pot, play video games and have kids out of wedlock?? :) Some folks have a problem with that. LOL . However I propose if he is the star running back for the Dolphins over the next two years while leading them to a Super Bowl I think that might change everything. I don’t think it will happen but you just don’y know in sports.

    I was very surprised when Charlie Joiner was elected to the HOF because I never thought he was the best WR on any team he played for.

    Boknows- no science to the number of spots for each decade position except I based on the numbers from the 1950’s which seems to be esentially tapped out. 1960’s are also number wise close to tapped out accordingly especially at LB’s. Could be why the Voters are reluctant to add more. 1970’s are way behind at several positions if equality matters. Seems like if they found 6 great DB’s in the 50’s than they could do the same for the decades that follow. Not saying it has to be equal but one would think close.

92. bachslunch on August 20, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    Actually, I have no problem at all with Charlie Joyner being in the HoF. He’s in some ways analogous to Don Sutton and the Baseball HoF — a player who had a long and significantly productive career and put up great counting number totals without necessarily being flashy. There’s significant value in being able to do that, and in fact this is historically considered to be of Hall-worthy value. I agree.

    I’m also very suspicious of the notion of “eye tests” (when you see him, you think greatness). What does that actually mean, other than what we uncritically want it to mean, really? It’s one thing if you’re intelligently breaking down game film and know what to look for in defining “greatness.” It’s another thing to see the player casually, maybe on TV while the announcer brays about what a treasure the guy is (as we all know, announcers are all-seeing, all-knowing savants…. ;-) ). Not really much tangible to go on there, really. If film study is not available (and it usually isn’t for us armchair fans), there are other things we can quantify to help us decide — specifically:

    -stats for skill positions that are well interpreted in good context.

    -postseason honors such as being named to 1st team all pro squads, pro bowl squads, and all decade teams, again seen in good context.

93. bachslunch on August 20, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    tony p, you said:

    “Probably next LB’s in will be Hansburger, Howley, Brazile, Gradishar, Greene and Haley along with the more current ones.”

    Of these folks, Greene and Haley have plenty more eligible years left as regular HoF candidates. Haley has been a finalist once, and Greene has been a semi-finalist a few times. Chances are pretty good they’re both getting elected down the road a ways.

    The other LBs mentioned are Senior eligible, and you know how tough it is to get nominated in this category. To Hanburger, Howley, Brazile, and Gradishar, I’d definitely add Maxie Baughan. And while anything can happen, am thinking Gradishar’s being turned down in his last eligible year may delay his being nominated as a senior for a while. None of the other four have ever been finalists, and they may stand the best chance from this group — except for one of these folks. Sorry to report, I’ve seen evidence that Houston’s HoF voting rep, John McClain, believes that Brazile was flat out not a Hall of Fame level player — I don’t know for the life of me why he thinks that and I see no reason to agree with this assessment, but regardless it doesn’t bode well for Brazile’s chances as a Senior nominee.

94. boknows34 on August 20, 2010 at 8:56 pm

    bachslunch

    Do you know if there is any bad blood between McClain and Brazile? I find it unusual that a respected writer and voter like McClain would make it public that’s he so very much against a good candidate from his hometown team (as it was then with the Oilers). Certainly if Brazile were to be nominated then McClain’s lack of support would definitely influence the rest of the voters.

    Regards Gradishar being turned down possibly delaying his senior nomination – one recent example where a player has been nominated then elected as a Senior very soon after dropping off the modern era list is Rayfield Wright.

95. tony p on August 20, 2010 at 10:17 pm

    If you mistreat or get on the bad side of the writers it can cost you dearly like Pitcher Bert Blyleven. Talk about being hosed!! One of the greatest curveballs ever.

    I’m trying to think if the eyeball test for a fan comes at the beginning or end of an evaluation. LOL! Your right bachslunch that my armchair eyetest will never be as good as someone who can breakdown film ESPECIALLY before more recent times.

    But now I do believe my opinion regarding today’s player is just about as good as someone who could break down film because of the great access games of your chosing and tremendous media exposure.

    In the old days I think I can speak accurately as a Texas resident to the Cowboy and Oilers players because I saw them every week. Plus there are some players like Emmitt Smith where you don’t have to be a genius to know they are a HOF caliber player. The same with Tony Dorsett who I saw for 11 years. So some guys are just easy to know if they are HOF caliber.

    I personally think I’ve seen enough of today’s players to legitimatly judge 75% with a good amount of fairness.

    Days gone by are not so easy!! Years ago I rarely saw a player (maybe a few times a year for the really good teams) so I’d have to read in depth reporting of the games (Pro Football Weekly and Football Digest) and use my imagination regarding a player. For Example: I want Jake Scott to be a HOFer but I can’t honestly say I saw him enough for my opinion to mean much. These such opinions if I never saw the player in action are merely hunches. LOL!!

    I don’t disagree with the Joiner election but was surprised because I didn’t take him so serious and he got in quickly if memory serves me.

    On the LB’s I offered no timetable. :)

96. bachslunch on August 21, 2010 at 7:18 am

    Re McClain and Brazile, I have no idea if there’s any “history” there. There always could be, of course. Check out this thread, notably posts #16 and #18, for specifics:

    http://www.pfraforum.org/index.php?showtopic=1260

    McClain apparently expressed this opinion in response to a web chat query a couple years ago.

    Re the “eyeball test” from tony p’s post. Not that I’m an expert on film study, but there seems to be an art to this and a need for good knowledge in interpretation. You have to know what to look for and be able to determine if the player is indeed doing what he’s supposed to. Would also suggest that it’s a bit easier to “eyeball test” skill position players and defensive sack specialists than o-linemen or non-sacking defensive players.

97. Paul on August 21, 2010 at 9:41 am

    OK with the HOF Seniors Committee meeting this coming and the announcement of the two senior candidates to follow by weeks end, lets have a little contest. Simply name the two players you feel will be selected, not who you think should or deserves to be elected, but your best “guess” as you think will be selected. Winner gets bragging rights on this board for one year (or at least until we try and “guess” the final election for 2011 HOF in early February)

98. Paul on August 21, 2010 at 9:42 am

    Chris Hanburger
    Jerry Kramer

99. tony p on August 21, 2010 at 9:16 pm

    One thing last year showed is that the selectors aren’t afraid to jump on a player bandwagon and ignore players who remain high on the nation’s consciousness. IMO it set a bad president that needs to stop. Why do they need to select fringe players when more clear cut choices remain?

    I’m pissed that the voters didn’t show the same backbone that they did in rejecting Claude Humphrey who ironically was a better selection than LeBeau and Little.

    So I’ll hope this year is different and they pick players with high acolades. At least there should be no argument about that.

    Also I’d say except for a very small handful of players it’s time to drop the 50’s and 60’s and get on with the 1970’s.

    The most logical choices would be Cris Hanburger, Maxie Baughan and Johnny Robinson. But for some reason they aren’t picking them and continue to look like complete idiots. All of their acolades and now these guys aren’t great players?

    Who knows but I just have a hunch that the ship has sailed on on Jerry Kramer along with the 1950’s players who keep getting mentioned. As there are less and less players to find that played with a candidate player and when the player consultants become younger how are they going to be able to over rule the judgements that consultants made before them. I’d be reluctant to seriously consider these old players say before 1960. Plus to be blount. as the players die off where’s the pressure in most cases?

    Bachslunch, was Dave Wilcox a better athlete than Maxie Baughan or what do you think was the reason for him getting the HOF nod over Maxie?? I wish these bozo’s selecting had to explain their selection over other players who play the same position.

    I’ll say they want to pick players with lots of general public support unlike last time. :) Let’s see – Harold Jackson and one AFL player Johnny Robinson

100. Billy on August 23, 2010 at 8:42 am

     I’m going to go with Chris Hanburger and Dick Stanfel

101. chris on August 24, 2010 at 10:19 am

     the senior nominees should be jerry kramer and chuck howley

102. Billy on August 24, 2010 at 10:46 am

     A friend of mine offered that it should be Rick Caseras and Johnny Robinson. Caseras is probably the best Fullback not in the Hall and I think he was like the 3rd ot 4th leading rusher when he retired. And I remember when Emmitt Thomas got into the Hall a few years ago, that people who saw both up close said that Robinson was the better player.

103. Billy on August 24, 2010 at 10:46 am

     A friend of mine offered that it should be Rick Caseras and Johnny Robinson. Caseras is probably the best Fullback not in the Hall and I think he was like the 3rd ot 4th leading rusher when he retired. And I remember when Emmitt Thomas got into the Hall a few years ago, that people who saw both up close said that Robinson was the better player.

104. tony p on August 25, 2010 at 12:54 am

     Caseras sure has some loyal fans. He gets mention plenty of times. It must of been his style because I sure can’t see an argument in his stats with such a low yards per carry and seasonal yardage.

105. Paul on August 25, 2010 at 8:27 am

     I am not sure Caseras has that many loyal fans, but he has at least one as one poster repeatedly mentions him and tries to make a case for his election.

106. Paul on August 25, 2010 at 3:08 pm

     Just announced by the HOF the senior candidates for 2011 are Chris Hanburger and Les Richter.
     Let the debate begin!

107. Billy on August 26, 2010 at 9:19 am

     Chris Hanburger was well desereving of a nomination and in my opinion should go to the HOF. Les Richter will take a little more convincing. I don’t want to take anything away from what he accomplshed, but wasn’t his own teammate and a guy that also played LB more deserving (Maxie Baughn?)

108. bachslunch on August 26, 2010 at 12:03 pm

     Actually, Les Richter and Maxie Baughan were not teammates. Richter retired after the 1962 season and Baughan was with the Eagles through 1965.

     I’m okay with Richter, actually, as well as Chris Hanburger. His profile is 4(1AP)/8/none, which is pretty reasonable. He was also a PK, and decent at it, for about 1/3 of his career. His all pro numbers are a little low because like Sam Huff he was routinely stuck behind Bill George and Joe Schmidt most of his career when such teams were picked. True, there might be better candidates available, but Richter doesn’t strike me as unworthy, either.

109. tony p on August 26, 2010 at 9:32 pm

     Kind of like I suggested in that after being drug through the mud the last couple of years for their selections they would go the safe route. Most of us can’t argue with Richter selection because we never say him play. This goes into the point I made before in, how can these older players be judged better than the people from his era? I’ll have to see how many times he was a Finalist or is this another first thought “rabbit out of the hat” like Floyd Little.

110. tony p on August 26, 2010 at 10:47 pm

     Les Richter had career totals of 9 years – 1 AP/8 PB – 16 ints – 9 or 12? fumble recoveries – 55 FG Att 29 Made – 0 TD

     Looks like a stretch to me. Timing of election seems odd. If it walks like a duck…….. My daddy’s dying and …… I guess I’m cynical too. :) Not saying I begrudge anyone except every position is golden to possibly be wasted.

111. tony p on August 26, 2010 at 11:07 pm

     I appreciate that this site is classy unlike a couple others I frequent which will remain unnamed.

     Unfortunately, I hit submit without thinking how insensitive my comment above was worded.

     I regret and apologize for my comment to the Richter Family, supporters and anyone who was possibly offended. Sorry.

112. Paul on September 13, 2010 at 5:49 pm

     Today the HOF released the list of preliminary modern era nominees (113) for the Class of 2011

     http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/2010/9/13/class-of-2011-preliminary-nominees-named/

     Now let this debate start!

113. larry rupright on September 13, 2010 at 9:18 pm

     have eny of you ever heard of Carl Banks one of the best linebackers in NFL history? with two super bowl rings and alwase over shadowed by LT a great linebacker in hisown rite get him into the hall of fame!!!!!

114. boknows34 on September 14, 2010 at 2:34 am

     My prediction.

     Deion Sanders
     Marshall Faulk
     Cris Carter
     Dermontti Dawson
     Cortez Kennedy

     Hanburger/Richter

     2012 will be a good year for easing the backlog with only Will Shields and Bill Parcells the notable 1st time eligibles that year before it gets really tough in 2013 – Ogden, Strahan, Sapp, Allen, Andersen.

     From last year’s prelim list Rod Martin, Max Montoya, Leslie O’Neal, Sterling Sharpe and Irving Fryar have disappeared. Others to have been dropped are Cunningham, Esiason, Theismann and Gannon at QB, leaving just Anderson, Plunkett, Simms and Williams.

     New names I notice who were not there last year and have been eligible before include Mike Quick and JT Smith at WR, Bruce Armstrong, Dave Butz and Bill Bates. Surely Fryar (851-12,785-84 5 PBs) and O’Neal with 132.5 sacks and 6 Pro Bowls should at least be nominated.

     Also, as I tried to explain last February Cliff Branch is not on the 2011 list as he now qualifies as a senior. This will be the last year on the modern era ballot for Anderson, Louis Wright and the Raiders trio of Plunkett, Ray Guy and Lester Hayes.

115. Paul on September 14, 2010 at 9:49 am

     My prediction: Sanders, Faulk, Carter, Dent, Sharpe, Hanburger, Richter

116. bachslunch on September 14, 2010 at 4:36 pm

     larry r., we here have indeed heard of Carl Banks. He certainly was a very good LB from the 80s-90s, though his postseason profile of 1(1AP)/1/80s is not as impressive as several of his LB contemporaries. Compared to folks such as Kevin Greene at 3(2AP)/5/90s and Sam Mills at 3(1AP)/5/none and Cornelius Bennett at 3(1AP)/5/90s and Karl Mecklenburg at 4(3AP)/6/none and Charles Haley at 2(2AP)/5/none and Pat Swilling at 2(2AP)/5/none and Clay Matthews at 1(0AP)/4/none and Wilber Marshall at 2(2AP)/3/none and Chris Spielman at 2(1AP)/4/none and Matt Blair at 1(1AP)/6/none and Chip Banks at 1(1AP)/4/none, it’s really hard to see a case for Banks over all these players.

     boknows34, good observant eyes, as always. One player who inexplicably was omitted from both this year’s and last year’s prelim list (and is very much eligible, and indeed looks competitive via his postseason honors profile) is Mark Gastineau. No idea why he’s being left off consistently like this.

     Of these players listed above, am thinking Deion Sanders is a lock to be elected and Marshall Faulk close to it. boknows34’s other three modern candidates (Kennedy, Dawson, and Carter) would be my choices as far as a guess. Though it was interesting that in last year’s election, Andre Reed made the first cutdown to 10 candidates while Carter, Tim Brown, and Shannon Sharpe did not — there may be a pecking order here, with Reed most likely to be elected first as he has been waiting the longest (have seen thoughts that the voters are seeing all four receivers as a unit, will elect them all eventually, but will make each wait their turn — am thinking that’s fair). And we may see either of Jerome Bettis or Curtis Martin sneak in first ballot as well. As always, there’s a good amount of unpredictability here.

117. bachslunch on September 14, 2010 at 4:39 pm

     And am also thinking (and hoping!) that both Seniors get voted in. But given Claude Humphrey’s experience, one never knows.

118. Billy on September 15, 2010 at 11:29 am

     I like Deion Sanders, Marshall Faulk, Dermonti Dawson, Lester Hayes, Shannon Sharpe, Chris Hanburger and Les Richter.

     Also Carl Banks was really good, but not a Hall of famer. Wilbur Marshall and Cornelius Bennet who played similar roles were better players.

119. boknows34 on November 27, 2010 at 10:33 pm

     Just a reminder that the semi-final list of 25 modern era names will be announced on Sunday.

120. boknows34 on November 28, 2010 at 1:02 pm

     An extra name announced today as there was a tie for the last spot.

     The complete list of 26 modern-era semifinalists is as follows:

     Jerome Bettis, RB – 1993-95 Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams, 1996-2005 Pittsburgh Steelers

     Tim Brown, WR/KR – 1988-2003 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders, 2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers

     Cris Carter, WR – 1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins

     Don Coryell, Coach – 1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers

     Roger Craig, RB – 1983-1990 San Francisco 49ers, 1991 Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-93 Minnesota Vikings

     Terrell Davis, RB – 1995-2001 Denver Broncos

     Dermontti Dawson, C – 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers

     Edward DeBartolo, Jr., Owner – 1979-1997 San Francisco 49ers

     Richard Dent, DE – 1983-1993, 1995 Chicago Bears, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1996 Indianapolis Colts, 1997 Philadelphia Eagles

     Chris Doleman, DE/LB – 1985-1993, 1999 Minnesota Vikings, 1994-95 Atlanta Falcons, 1996-98 San Francisco 49ers

     Marshall Faulk, RB – 1994-98 Indianapolis Colts, 1999-2005 St. Louis Rams

     Kevin Greene, LB/DE – 1985-1992 Los Angeles Rams, 1993-95 Pittsburgh Steelers, 1996, 1998-99 Carolina Panthers, 1997 San Francisco 49ers

     Ray Guy, P – 1973-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders

     Charles Haley, DE/LB – 1986-1991, 1999 San Francisco 49ers, 1992-96 Dallas Cowboys

     Lester Hayes, CB – 1977-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders

     Cortez Kennedy, DT – 1990-2000 Seattle Seahawks

     Curtis Martin, RB – 1995-97 New England Patriots, 1998-2005 New York Jets

     Art Modell, Owner – 1961-1995 Cleveland Browns, 1996-2003 Baltimore Ravens

     Andre Reed, WR – 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins

     Willie Roaf, T – 1993-2001 New Orleans Saints, 2002-05 Kansas City Chiefs

     Ed Sabol, Contributor – 1964-1995 NFL Films

     Deion Sanders, CB/KR/PR – 1989-1993 Atlanta Falcons, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1995-99 Dallas Cowboys, 2000 Washington Redskins, 2004-05 Baltimore Ravens

     Shannon Sharpe, TE – 1990-99, 2002-03 Denver Broncos, 2000-01 Baltimore Ravens

     Paul Tagliabue, Commissioner – 1989-2006 National Football League

     Aeneas Williams, CB/S – 1991-2000 Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals, 2001-04 St. Louis Rams

     George Young, Contributor – 1968-1974 Baltimore Colts, 1975-78 Miami Dolphins, 1979-1997 New York Giants, 1998-2001 National Football League

121. boknows34 on November 28, 2010 at 11:21 pm

     Just noticed Steve Tasker didn’t make the cut this year. He was a semi-finalist for the Class of 2010.

122. Paul on November 29, 2010 at 2:42 pm

     In looking at the list of 26 semi-finalists I see at least 20 potential HOF members, and at a rate of only 5 elected each year, it would take 4 years to get them all in – and of course that does not include the addition of new semi-finalists each year as more players become eligible for election! Really makes it clear how hard a job the selection committee has each year.

     Just the new few years will see the addition of: 2012 – Tiki Barber, Will Shields, Bill Parcells; 2013- Larry Allen, Morten Andersen, Jonathan Ogden, Warren Sapp, Michael Strahan; 2014 – Tony Dungy, Marvin Harrison; 2015 – Isaac Bruce, Edgerrin James, Walter Jones, Orlando Pace, Junior Seau, Kurt Warner. I am not saying all of these players will get in, but they certainly will get consideration and many will evidently be selected.

123. Brad Ehringer on November 29, 2010 at 10:41 pm

     Paul, I don’t mean to be critical at all, my list wasn’t accurate by all means, but for 2014 you forgot a first ballot hall of famer, Derrick Brooks.

     Tiki Barber, to me, will have the hardest time getting in. He is at the same level as an Eddie George. A player who deserves to be on the ballot, but won’t get in.

124. boknows34 on November 30, 2010 at 8:24 am

     With the nomination of Ed Sabol, I believe there should be a place in Canton for the creator of the magnificent NFL Films – easily the best of any sport and how they document their history. Would the HOF not consider reserving one spot per year in the Final vote for a ‘Contributor’ candidate, the same way they do with the two Seniors nominees? That way the likes of Ed and Steve Sabol, Commissioner Paul Tagliabue and GMs like George Young and Ron Wolf would not have to deny the place of a great player and are instead fast tracked through to a straight Yes or No vote. It would mean a Maximum Class of 8 each year – 5 modern era players, two seniors and a contributor.

125. Brad on November 30, 2010 at 1:29 pm

     Good thinking boknows34.

126. Paul on November 30, 2010 at 2:45 pm

     Sorry my error for missing Brooks. I also think Edgerrin James is not going to get in the HOF, he will fall within the group of more recent 10,000 yards rushing RBs and 800+ reception WRs who will not get in due to the inflation of these numbers in last few decades.

127. Brad on November 30, 2010 at 10:38 pm

     Edgerrin James has 2 rushing titles to start his career, and I believe is one of a few RBs to have 4 seasons with 1,500+ rushing yards.

     Here are RBs who are canton bound (active and retired): Marshall Faulk, Curtis Martin, and Jerome Bettis, and LaDainian Tomlinson. Marshall, C-Mart, and The Bus will get inducted before the Edge ever reaches the ballot.

     I’d say LT goes in before Edgerrin. I think James’ odds will increase as soon as LT gets inducted. Looking at the list, I see no RB posing a threat to Edge. Here is a list of the likely RBs to be on the ballot when LT, C-Mart, Jerome, and Faulk get inducted:

     Shaun Alexander ( maybe the only threat)
     Fred Taylor( he is going to retire a lot sooner than later)
     Corey Dillon
     Warrick Dunn
     Jamal Lewis
     Tiki Barber
     Eddie George

     Side Notes: Patrick Willis is looking like a first Ballot in the making. I know it’s early and I am a big fan, but he is on the right track. We will be talking about him being a Hall of Famer 3 seasons after this year. He could end up being 5/7/none by than.

     DeMarcus Ware: 3/4/00s. 74 sacks, over 400 tackles. HOFer in the making. His team needs to start winning, like soon.

     Go Jets!!!

128. boknows34 on December 1, 2010 at 1:37 am

     Thanks Brad.

     With a maximum of only 5 modern era spots available from the 26 semi-finalists, I think the voters are very reluctant to induct the likes of Tagliabue, Young, Wolf, Ed Sabol and his son Steve when there is already a growing backlog of deserving players. In fact when you remove the 1st ballot locks each year – eg Deion and Faulk in 2011, Rice and Emmitt in 2010 etc – there are really only 3 spots available among 24 names. That’s extremely tough competition. Giving them a separate route like the Seniors do with a straight Yes or No vote would solve that problem. I’d also include coaches on the Contributors list. That would allow 5 players, 2 Seniors and Bill Parcells to be inducted in the same Class.

129. Paul on December 1, 2010 at 9:31 am

     With a 9 year career and currently 9,453 career rushing (28th all time) Alexander is no current threat to make the HOF, unless he somehow at the age of 33 makes a late career push.

     Perhaps Edgerrin will make the HOF eventually but it will not be a quick and easy path, whereas LT is a first ballot selection (eight 1000 yard seasons and over 13,000 career yards, 4/5, MVP, 143 rushing TDs (2nd all time), much much better career then Edgerrin or other Rbs on your list (of which none will make HOF).

130. Paul on December 1, 2010 at 11:24 am

     by your list (and my assessment of non-HOFers) I am of course referring to these:

     Shaun Alexander ( maybe the only threat)
     Fred Taylor( he is going to retire a lot sooner than later)
     Corey Dillon
     Warrick Dunn
     Jamal Lewis
     Tiki Barber
     Eddie George

131. Brad on December 1, 2010 at 8:57 pm

     LT is the 61st greatest player of all time. Not too bad; and also Prime Time, who is going in the hall of fame as first ballot this year, is 34th.

     Shaun Alexander is like Boomer Esiason. They both have MVPs and but don’t have good overall stats. Shaun has good stats I think: 112 total TD’s(100 rushing, 12 receiving), 2005 NFL MVP , 2005 rushing leader, 2005 was one yard shy of tying with Curtis Martin(who will make the hall of fame sooner than later, one of the most underrated players in NFL history), Led the NFL in running TD’s 2 times. 2004 and 2005 led the NFL in total TD’s with 20, 28 total TD’s respectably. He made the 2000s All Decade Team. Not a bad resume.

     MJD could have an MVP type year in the near future. Could end up with 100 total TD’s before you know it. He already has 62.

132. Brad on December 4, 2010 at 4:06 pm

     correction. Shaun Alexander was one yard shy in 2004.

133. Brad on December 5, 2010 at 2:13 pm

     London Fletcher might not make the Hall Of Fame because there is a good amount of LBs who can make the Hall: Ray Lewis (1st Ballot), Derrick Brooks( 1st Ballot), Zach Thomas, Junior Seau (1st Ballot) and Brian Urlacher. Than for the future: Patrick Willis and DeMarcus Ware.

     Someone we don’t talk about at all and he has 1,498 tackles, 28 Int’s and 23 sacks, and 6 defensive TD’s( 4 Int returns for TDs and 2 fumble recovery TDs). Donnie Edwards.

134. bachslunch on December 5, 2010 at 4:09 pm

     Donnie Edwards would look to be a non-starter with a postseason profile of 0/1/none for a 13 year career. He’s about comparable to folks like London Fletcher (0/1/none) and Tedi Bruschi (0/1/none) and a shade behind Mike Vrabel at 1(1AP)/1/none. Unless something really out of character happens, all these folks are fast tracked to nowhere near HoF membership, especially given that Zach Thomas and Brian Urlacher might in fact struggle to be elected, even though both have solid cases.

135. Brad on December 5, 2010 at 11:43 pm

     I think Brian Urlacher makes it because getting defensive rookie of the year and defensive player of the year in a career is pretty impressive alone, than you add in 4/6/00s. Played in a Super Bowl. 1,158 tackles, 40.5 sacks, 18 Int’s. As long as he stays healthy, he is productive and will probably play at least another 3 seasons after this season. He will have probably over 1,400 tackles by than, 50 sacks, and 20 int’s. That is pretty impressive as well.

     Ronde Barber has 40 Int’s and 26 sacks as a corner. That is insane. He is versatile. His career high in Int’s is 10 in 2001 and his career in sacks is 5.5 in 2000. Scored 13 non offensive TD’s. 3/5/00s. He should have consideration.

136. bachslunch on December 6, 2010 at 4:40 pm

     Re Brian Urlacher: again, don’t forget that he has a reputation for being overrated, and was the lead example in a prominent article to that effect a few years ago. The thinking seems to be that he benefits a lot when he has strong d-line players in front of him but becomes a pretty ordinary LB when the line talent in front of him is thinner. Plus he missed most all of last season with an injury, which may not help his case any. I think he’s got at least a respectable chance of being elected to the HoF, but he may face a bigger delay than one might ordinarily think, especially as he’ll probably be competing against Junior Seau, Ray Lewis, Derrick Brooks, and Zach Thomas.

     Re Ronde Barber: he’s probably making the short list of the best CBs of the 00s, along with Champ Bailey and Charles Woodson. Bailey might be the first of these folks to get elected to the HoF, and hopefully Barber and Woodson follow suit — but it’s hard to know for sure. Given Aeneas Williams’s struggles thus far, they may all wait a bit at the very least.

137. Brad on December 7, 2010 at 6:48 pm

     Adrian Peterson 3 years after this year can be a Hal of Fame lock.. He will have 9.000 rushing yards by than since there going to be a run first team. He will go down as top 10 RBs all time( if things go the way it seems).

138. Geoffrey on December 9, 2010 at 10:55 pm

     My vote for 2011 NFL HOF senior selection should be: Randy Gradishar 1, and Pat Fischer 2. Two of the most underrated defensive players ever!.

     1-Deion Sanders
     2-Tim Brown
     3-Don Coryell(should have been inducted A LONG TIME AGO when he was still alive)
     4-Shannon Sharpe
     5-Marshall Faulk

139. Brad on December 10, 2010 at 8:08 pm

     That’s a good list Geoffrey. But, I like Dermontti Dawson up there too.

140. Paul on December 11, 2010 at 9:24 am

     Geoffrey: The HOF senior selection for 2011 has already been made, you will have to make your choices for 2012!

141. bachslunch on December 12, 2010 at 1:47 pm

     I can definitely see a case for Randy Gradishar for the HoF, given how stringent the voters are with LBs — and Gradishar was an inside LB in a 3-4 defense, a poorly represented subset of the position.

     But I see no earthly reason to push Pat Fischer at 2(2AP)/3/none into the HoF ahead of a whole host of other DBs, including Johnny Robinson at 6(6AP)/7/allAFL, Jimmy Patton at 5(5AP)/5/none, Lemar Parrish at 3(1AP)/8/none, Cliff Harris at 4(3AP)/6/70s, Abe Woodson at 5(2AP)/5/none, Bobby Dillon at 5(4AP)/4/none, Jack Butler at 3(3AP)/4/50s, Dave Grayson at 6(4AP)/6/allAFL, Bobby Boyd at 4(3AP)/2/60s, Cornell Green at 4(3AP)/5/none, and Eddie Meador at 3(2AP)/6/60s. Fischer’s postseason honors are at a lesser level than all these players.

142. Brad on December 12, 2010 at 9:01 pm

     I agree on everything you said Bachslunch. Johnny Robinson is way over due.

     MJD for MVP. MJD for HOF. Period.

143. whop on December 13, 2010 at 7:05 pm

     i thank prime time,dent ,marshall, they should be n no doubt because thy were top plters n there era

144. Brad on December 18, 2010 at 12:13 pm

     Going back to bachslunch comment about Brian Urlacher being overrated. Yeah he is a bit overrated, but so was Joe Namath and he is in. And this is a die heart Jet fan saying this. One player who I think is underrated is Don Maynard. Still in the top ten all time in receiving TD’s with 88 and he retired in 1973. Looking at it, at the time he retired, Don Hutson had more. That’s it.

145. Zach on December 18, 2010 at 10:16 pm

     You got to get Jessie Tuggle on that list. Look at his stats and he holds NFL records.

146. Brad on December 19, 2010 at 1:55 am

     He has a lot of tackles, but tackles aren’t everything. Ray lewis has more tackles, more sacks, and more int’s. But in fairness to Jessie, Ray is one of the greatest defenders of all time. But I don’t think he makes it up against Zach Thomas and Brian Urlacher. Zach was 1st Team All Pro 5x. Urlacher was 1st Team All Pro 4x. Jessie was never elected 1st Team All Pro. Do you know whats interesting? Jason Taylor has more sacks(of course) and more Int’s.

     I ask the question. Is Jason Taylor a Hall of Famer?

     Is Eli Manning a Hall o Famer when its all said and done? I don’t think so.

147. bachslunch on December 19, 2010 at 1:54 pm

     No, we don’t “got to get Jessie Tuggle on that list.” Tuggle has zero chance of being voted into the HoF, and I see no reason to think he’s deserving unless the HoF lowers its standards below what it is now. His postseason profile of 0(0AP)/5/none isn’t overwhelmingly impressive, especially when compared against contemporaries such as Ray Lewis (7[7AP]/11/00s), Derrick Brooks (5[5AP]/11/00s), Junior Seau (8[6AP]/12/90s), Zach Thomas (5[5AP]/7/00s), and Brian Urlacher (4[4AP]/6/00s), all of whom will get in before Tuggle gets considered. Also note that somewhat earlier LBs such as Charles Haley (2[2AP]/5/none), Kevin Greene (3[2AP]/5/90s), Cornelius Bennett (3[1AP]/5/90s), Karl Mecklenburg (4[3AP]/6/none), and Sam Mills (3[1AP]/5/none) are currently struggling to get in the HoF with better postseason profiles.

     I also don’t care about tackle stats, as they’re notoriously unreliable, heavily influenced by local statistician standards (some of which are very lax). Rich Gosselin wrote an excellent article on the subject a year or so ago.

148. Brad on December 19, 2010 at 2:11 pm

     Good points. And you can add Hardy Nickerson on that list too. 2/5/90s. He won’t make and neither will LBs like Sam Mills, Cornelius Bennett, Karl Mecklenburg, etc. Zach Thomas I think will get inducted. 5/7/00s is impressive. Not saying he is a first nor a 3rd ballot. As in, he will wait.

     Speaking of waiting. When will Cris Carter get inducted. 2/8/90s is solid. Art Monk had to wait, but 1/3/80s isn’t overweening, as in the 1/3 .

149. bachslunch on December 19, 2010 at 6:16 pm

     Cris Carter is getting in sooner or later. His waiting, like Art Monk’s, is not unprecedented — especially as Carter’s likely seen as a possession type WR given his relatively low yards-per-catch average. If the HoF voters make good the idea that the one waiting longest out of the Andre Reed/Cris Carter/Tim Brown trio gets in first, we may see Reed elected this year, Carter next year, and Brown a couple years after that. Don’t forget that only five of the HoF Modern Era WRs were elected “first ballot.”

     Am thinking of the remaining 90s LBs, Charles Haley and Kevin Greene are the most likely to be elected, as Haley has been a finalist and Greene has been a semifinalist. None of the others have, and as a result I doubt they have much of a chance.

150. Brad on December 20, 2010 at 12:19 pm

     I agree. Speaking of WRs. DESEAN JACKSON. I understand its his 3rd season. But, he is as versatile as anyone in the NFL now. We’ll see where his stats are 5-6 years from now. But, he can one day make it. Heard it from me first!

     I know Jason Taylor is old and what not. But for limited Playing Time, he is making an impact this year. 131.5 sacks, 8 Int’s, and 3 safeties, 9 defensive TDs, 3/6/00s Is Hall of Fame Worthy. Reason why I bring him up is because I’m a Jets fan first of all, and also he had a Safety yesterday VS the Steelers. Maybe add a Super Bowl ring to that. But, I think we will see him in Canton.

151. bachslunch on December 20, 2010 at 2:35 pm

     No question Desean Jackson has a pretty impressive 3-year career so far. But the same could also be said for Del Shofner and Sterling Sharpe before their careers were derailed by injury. And even the best player can occasionally turn pretty ordinary for one reason or another after an impressive few years. We’ll just have to see how things unfold here.

152. Brad on December 20, 2010 at 7:40 pm

     What about Issac Bruce and Torry Holt? I like Torry more than Bruce. Torry’s resume is better.

     Issace Bruce: 0/4/none. Led the NFL in receiving yards once. One season with 1,781 receiving yards.

     Torry Holt: 1/7/00s. Led the NFL in receiving yards 2 times ( 1,635 and 1,696 receiving yards, Marvin Harrison and him are the only to have two seasons of 1,600 receiving yards).

     I like Marvin Harrison more than Holt.

153. Brad on December 23, 2010 at 12:22 am

     Terrell Owens is not going to return to the Bengals. But he said he wants to play more years. He thinks he can play somewhere from 2-3 years. He could end up being 2nd in a lot of categories, unless Moss plays for a contender with an established QB and I’ll put my money on Randy.Terrell needs 66 receiving yards to become just one of two players to achieve 16,000 receiving yards in their career. The other is Jerry Rice. Terrell Owens needs 45 receiving TD’s to pass Jerry Rice for first place. He needs 26 receptions to move into second place behind Jerry Rice.

     I think he is a Hall of Famer no doubt. But Randy Moss is better IMO. He’s younger and is keeping up with T.O.’s stats. Like I said before, If he teams up with a good team, with a proven QB. A team like the Ravens can release Derrick Mason and bring him in. Or Steelers. I know that doesn’t seem likely. But you never know. I don’t know if the Colts would. Chargers probably not. Eagles could work if they didn’t have DeSean Jackson. But DASHSean Jackson is a playmaker. No for the Giants; Hicks, Smith, and Manningham are good WRs. No Jets because they should re-sign Braylon Edwards and Santonio Holmes. They are solid WR’s. Also, they have Jerricho Cotchery to re-sign. I don’t think he will go to the Cowboys. Miles Austin, Dez Bryant, Roy Williams, and Jason Witten (basically a WR). I don’t think he will go to Green Bay at all, like never. Because its a full moon tonight (if you know what I mean) and it really is a full moon out where I live. Falcons I don’t know, Probably not. Saints have too many players (a good thing), no need for him. So we will see where he goes.

154. Brad on December 26, 2010 at 5:52 pm

     I’m hearing people saying: Devin Hester is a Hall of Famer. I know I keep bringing him up for thr hall, but to be honest, how is he different right now than Rick Upchurch or Eric Metcalf? Eric Metcalf is a better offensive player than Hester. But Devin needs to take it (returning) to another level. Like 20-22 career returns for TDs. It’ll be interesting.

155. tony p on December 29, 2010 at 6:23 pm

     Metcalf was a great third down back and just a good full time back because of his smaller stature. It seemed like he hung around forever to collect those return TD’s. His consistancy was impressive. I was more impressed with his ability than Dave Meggett. Upchurch turned himself into a real nice WR after bursting onto the scene as a outstanding returner. Neither one will ever be in the HOF.

     I’d like to say Hester is like Terrell Davis close to being a HOFer. Just needs to keep it going. Even than I don’t know how much credit a primarily excellent Returner only will be given.

156. tony p on December 29, 2010 at 6:36 pm

     The 70’s Rams and Broncos had some of the best Defenses of their time.Isiah Robertson and Tom Jackson were two of the best OLB’s who need in the HOF.

157. Brad on December 30, 2010 at 1:45 pm

     Its hard to put him in (Devin Hester) because he is mostly Special Teams. But, Jan Stenerud was a full time kicker and he is in, FIRST BALLOT, which I am surprised about. Now, if he can take returning to another level, which I have said before, than I see him getting in. If he raises the returning TD record to a point where no one will reach( like how Jerry Rice raised the reception, yards, TD records), than it will only help him ( of course). Now, he is as of now, the returner of the 2010’s, IMO. There is plenty of ball to be played. But, if he keeps this going for a couple years, he’ll be on it( 2010’all Decade Team). When the all time 100 year NFL team, or whenever they decide to make a new all time team, I see him on it, replacing Billy “White Shoes” Johnson. It will be interesting to see how his career ends up. IMO, if he reaches a total of 20 returns for TDs, I think he goes in. He already has 14. So he would need 6, which isn’t too too easy to get. But if he does, it will be hard not to put him in. The NFL hasn’t seen a returner like Hester.

158. Brad on December 30, 2010 at 1:47 pm

     correction: he has 15 returns for TDs. so he needs 5 to get it 20.

159. J. Tony Ruiz on January 6, 2011 at 2:18 pm

     The name that I cannot believe is missing is Dennis Harrah. How can one of the, arguably, best Guards that ever played the game have been omitted from so many ballots. It is time the HOF get this squared away!!!

160. Brad on January 6, 2011 at 5:28 pm

     Many people are saying, Devin Hester is a hall of famer. I think he is. But When I look at this, I don’t know: Derrick Mason has been a solid WR for many years. He was a good returner for a brief time. He he 8 1,000 receiving yard seasons, 12th most receptions (924) and 14th most all purpose yards. Pretty good stats. I know its not on the same level of Randy Moss or Cris Carter. He is only a 2x Pro Bowler. But he has played very good as a WR. Whereas Devin Hester is a Punt Returner ( not an “every down player”) and is an ok WR.

161. Brad on January 7, 2011 at 2:29 am

     What are the chances the following get in, eventually. When there career is all over. When it is all said in done:

     Quarterbacks

     Eli Manning- I don’t think he will get in because he already, in his young career, has 2 Int titles. Yes he has a ring, but only one Pro Bowl. And the NFC already has Matt Ryan, Drew Brees, Tony Romo, etc. So making the Pro Bowl will be tough.

     Donovan McNabb- Pretty good overall career. 6x Pro Bowler. 5 NFC Championship games, but no ring. However, Jim Kelly never won one and he is in. Well see. I may add. McNabb doesn’t throw many Int’s in general. I think that is important.

     Ben Rothlisberger- 2x Super Bowl Champ. Only a one time Pro Bowler, but I think if he wins one more Super Bowl, he is Canton bound. Think about it. A starting QB who has won 3 Super Bowls and isn’t it? Would NEVER happen.

     Philip Rivers- He is posting great stats. 3x Pro Bowler, could end up with a total 6+ IMO. I see him making it. It’s early in his career, but if i were to bet, I would put money on it.

162. BSLO on January 8, 2011 at 4:14 pm

     I’ve read the threads on a lot of sites with Hall of Fame debates and it’s nice to see a real debate on here as opposed to a bunch of people freaking out about Jim Marshall or Ray Guy (or basically any Raider that played in the 70?s/80?s) not being in the HOF. I like take a realistic look at the voters based more so on their past voting patterns than the candidates actual stats. With that said, here is my take on this year’s election:

     This is probably the deepest semi-finalist list that we’ve had in awhile, especially with so many contributers this time around as wildcards…they should really have their own separate category. I think that the following 11 guys will get bumped when they name the finalists tomorrow:

     Terrell Davis – Hasn’t been a finalist before, and is probably 4th or 5th in line at his position now. The easiest pick not to move on.

     George Young – Fell off the ballot a couple of years ago and probably was one of the 2 people tied as the 25th semi-finalist.

     Art Modell – With all of the controversy surrounding him and a deep field this year, he’ll be easy to leave off the finalist list.

     Lester Hayes – Hasn’t been a finalist for a number of years. May gain some momentum with it being his last year as a modern era candidate, but I think the voters would push for Ray Guy over him if they choose to push one of them.

     Ed DeBartolo Jr. – 1st time semi-finalist, he’s a wildcard to jump the queue, but I don’t think it’ll happen this year.

     Jerome Bettis – He’s 4th or 5th on the running back queue. Pretty much in the same spot as TD.

     Aeneas Williams – He’s deserves to make it eventually, but I think it might take awhile to build up his candidacy. I see him having a Rickey Jackson-type wait before he gets in.

     Paul Tagliabue – He probably won’t be seriously considered until the CBA situation plays out.

     Ray Guy – I have a feeling that he’ll get in really fast through the seniors committee, but as a modern-era candidate, it’s hard to pick a punter over a full-time player…even if they are arguably the best to ever play their position. Steve Tasker will likely suffer the same fate.

     Curtis Martin – Very tough to leave off of the finalist list, but without a real flashy profile, I think he’ll just miss being a finalist and might ultimately need to wait 5-10 years to get in.

     Chris Doleman – It’s a toss-up between him and Kevin Greene to move on, but I’ll pick Greene since he’s been a semi-finalist more times. Regardless of who moves on, both guys should make the hall of fame in the next few years with the voters trying to induct more defensive players.

     That leaves the following 15 as finalists:

     Marshall Faulk
     Deion Sanders
     Willie Roaf
     Andre Reed
     Cris Carter
     Tim Brown
     Shannon Sharpe
     Dermontti Dawson
     Cortez Kennedy
     Richard Dent
     Charles Haley
     Kevin Greene
     Roger Craig
     Don Coryell
     Ed Sabol

     Ultimately, I think that Craig, Haley, Greene, Sabol and Brown will be the 1st 5 chopped off. Craig clearly won’t make it with Faulk on the ballot, Greene will get bumped as a 1st time finalist, Haley seems to be behind Kennedy and Dent in the defense queue, Sabol will fail to move on as a 1st-time finalist and might (hopefully) be used as Exhibit A as to why contributers need their own vote and Brown will just miss moving on with Reed and Carter both being candidates who formerly made the “Final 10.”

     At the final 10, it’ll be a very close call again and I think it’ll go down like this:

     Faulk and Sanders get in without question on the 1st ballot.

     The voters must do something about the receiver backlog, so either Carter or Reed get in. It’s a toss-up with Carter having better stats, but Reed having the longer wait and the more support last year. I will go with Carter in a photo finish, but I think ultimately Reed and Brown will make it in over the next 2-4 years with there being a lack in good skill position candidates coming up (besides Marvin Harrison).

     The Hall has done an outstanding job of electing offensive linemen over the last few years and I think they’ll induct another again this year. Roaf and Dawson both have great credentials, but I think that Roaf’s lack of success in the playoffs will lead to him having to wait a year (especially if you use Randall McDaniel, a very similar candidate, as a guide). Dawson gets in.

     The last spot comes down to 4 guys, but I think that it’ll go to Kennedy for the following reasons. Coryell is the sentimental choice after passing away this year, but he simply has the worst HOF case of the remaining candidates. Dent always makes the final 10, but always seems to get stuck there…I see that happening again. With 3 offensive players already picked, the voters won’t want a skewed ballot, so Sharpe once again fails to get in.

     So there you have it, Marshall Faulk, Deion Sanders, Cris Carter, Dermontti Dawson and Cortez Kennedy are my picks. I also think Chris Hanburger and Les Richter both get in to make it a full class.

     Thoughts?

163. Brad on January 9, 2011 at 3:02 am

     Good points but I think C-Mart is a 2nd-5th ballot at most. Yes I am a Jets fan, but 14,000 rushing yards is 14,00 rushing yards. Who has more? Emmitt Smith, Sweetness, and Barry Sanders. All are in the top 22 all time greatest players. C-Mart and Barry are the ONLY player in the history of the NFL to have 10 straight 1,000 yard seasons to start a career. Pretty good company.I’m not saying, I’m just saying.

     I agree Marshall Faulk and Deion Sanders are first ballots. I think Cris Carter will make it too and Dermontti Dawson. Ill take Richard Dent over Cortez Kennedy. That’s where i disagree. Not saying you wrong, but it is my opinion. Richard Dent was a vital piece to the Bears Super Bowl defense. He was Super Bowl MVP. He has two seasons of 17 sacks. 8 seasons of at least 10 sacks. 137.5 career sacks.

     You can’t blame Willie Roaf for not making the postseason a lot. Gale Sayers never made the postseason, not one game. It shouldnt hurt you for the hall. The Hall of Fame is an individual achievement, not a team achievement .

164. Tony on January 9, 2011 at 3:48 pm

     2011 Hall of Fame Finalists were announced today.

     Looks like we were pretty close with our Finalist list, hitting on 13 of 15, if my math is right–I missed on Curtis Martin, Jerome Bettis and Ed Sabol were the ones we missed (so much for not including more than one back in a first time class), as we had Roger Craig, Don Coryell and Aeneas Williams on our list.

165. Andy on January 9, 2011 at 4:21 pm

     I’m not terribly surprised Craig didn’t make it. Liked him as a player but I think he’s behind Martin, Bettis and Faulk. Williams I am surprised by. Coryell I’m not surprised didn’t make the list but I’m a little disappointed.

     I hope Sabol makes the final cut but I don’t think he will. The rest of my guesses are on today’s post.

166. Paul on January 9, 2011 at 5:37 pm

     I will stay with the prediction I made previously for the 2011 HOF elections: Carter, Dent, Faulk, Hanburger, Richter, Sanders, and Sharpe. My wildcards would be Reed (replacing Carter) and Dawson (replacing Dent). I would be very surprised if any other of the remaining from the 17 are elected this year.

167. bachslunch on January 9, 2011 at 10:03 pm

     First, great post from BSLO.

     I’m going to repost thoughts on the HoF Finalist thread here.

     Some interesting things:

     -glad to see Ed Sabol get this far. Am thinking that he’ll probably get elected, and I’m all for it.

     -wasn’t sure if Willie Roaf would get this far in his first year, but since he did, am thinking this bodes pretty well for his candidacy down the road. I doubt he gets in for a few years, though — Dermontti Dawson is probably in the pecking order ahead of him this year.

     -I’m actually not that surprised to see Don Coryell and Roger Craig not get this far this year, as they were arguably the weakest of last year’s 15 modern era folks.

     -this is Chris Doleman’s first time this far. It’s kind of interesting that he reached finalist stage and not Kevin Greene. I doubt he gets to the next group of 10 in the final vote.

     -two Raiders in their last year of eligibility who had been finalists in past, Ray Guy and Lester Hayes, did not reach this level and now drop into the Senior pool.

     Who ultimately gets in? Good question, as always. Am thinking Deion Sanders and Ed Sabol are locks and Marshall Faulk has a really good chance this year. Am thinking (and hoping) the two Seniors are elected. Two more slots at most are possible under this scenario, and am thinking two from Dermontti Dawson, Cortez Kennedy, and Andre Reed have the best chance. If Faulk doesn’t make it, Dawson, Kennedy, and Reed might all be elected.

168. BSLO on January 10, 2011 at 12:42 am

     Thanks bachslunch! I’ve posted my reactions to the finalist list on the HOF finalist thread

169. Brian on January 10, 2011 at 4:35 am

     Let’s make this easy.
     Deion Sanders is out cuz he is/was a hot dog and is not as good as Devon Hester, who should be nominated as he plays his position and runs back kicks better than Deion ever did or dreamed of doing. Who cares that he is an active player, just change the rules.

     Dent gets in cuz he was a dominate Bear player, enough said.

     The other votes all go to Dick Butkus as he should be voted in multiple times every year as he is hands down the greatest player to ever set foot onto a football field.

     If Deion would have run into Butkus, he would have never got up again. Butkus would have ate that hot dog and washed it down with a cold Chicago beer.

     Well I guess Dick would share a very nominations with Gale Sayers and Sweetness and even give on to his friend and best opponent Ray Nitschke.

170. Paul on January 10, 2011 at 10:52 am

     I would be more careful not to dismiss the qualifications and chances of Shannon Sharpe (4/8), 3SBs, 90s all decade, and 2nd all time in TE rec and yards.

171. bachslunch on January 10, 2011 at 11:04 am

     Shannon Sharpe could always leapfrog over the three WRs on the ballot, but note well that the HoF hasn’t been all that kind to TEs in past. Most have waited a very long time before being elected — the record is for Kellen Winslow in his 3rd eligible year and 3rd time as finalist. No question Sharpe’s going to be elected sooner or later — it just might be a few years out, though.

172. BSLO on January 11, 2011 at 8:33 pm

     Very well said bachslunch.

     For whatever reason, tight ends have gotten little respect from the hall of fame. Shannon Sharpe absolutely deserves to be in the hall of fame, but he’s been a victim of numbers…there are so many deserving players that are eligible right now, especially on offense at the skill positions. Sharpe seems to get lumped in with the other receivers and it’s an unfair comparison.

     I’ve also noticed that lately the hall of fame has shown a tendency to err on the side of who has had to wait longer to get in if faced with a few players at one position (ex. Andre Tippett and Fred Dean getting in over Derrick Thomas, Art Monk getting in over Cris Carter, Russ Grimm getting in over Dermontti Dawson) and that may be something that’s working against him since he’s only been eligible for 3 years.

     He should get in sometime in the next couple of years…aside from 2013 (Ogden, Allen, Strahan, Sapp), there really isn’t a stacked year coming up in the next 5 years and aside from Marvin Harrison there isn’t a 1st-ballot skill position player coming up soon (I won’t count Favre until he stays retired through an entire season).

173. Paul on January 12, 2011 at 5:44 pm

     BSLO’s observations on the pool of potential HOFs over the next few years are pretty solid, especially in regards to the lack of so-called “skilled” positions (personally I hate that term, but it is used commonly) of QB, RB, WR, and TE. Here is a link to a fairly recent discussion of candidates for 2011 through 2015. Although I do not agree with all of their analysis or conclusions, the list and discussions are sound.

     http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38530877/ns/sports-nfl/

174. BSLO on January 12, 2011 at 8:20 pm

     Thanks Paul. NBC has a pretty good list, but they they apparently forgot about Derrick Brooks!(and to a lesser extent Torry Holt and Zach Thomas)

     As for the analysis, I’d probably disagree to some extent with about 50-75% of it. I won’t go into too much detail, but I’ll comment on their thoughts about 2012.

     I think that they think a little bit too highly of Tiki Barber and Rod Smith. I would be very surprised if either guy ever even made it to the semi-final stage and comparing Shannon Sharpe and Rod Smith is just ridiculous. Sharpe is one of the greatest tight ends of all-time, while Rod Smith is probably one of the top 10 receivers of his era.

     I think that Parcells is a borderline lock next year, though they make a good point that some voters might dismiss him if they think he might return to coaching. With such a good pool of candidates, the Hall can’t afford to move a guy to the final 5 if they aren’t sure that he’ll get 80% of the votes. Parcells in fact made it to the final cut in 2002, but was voted down. The same thing has also happened to Richard Dent and Bob Kuechenberg among others.

     I’m a huge Chiefs fan, but Will Shields won’t be a 1st ballot Hall of Famer. For starters, he’ll be up against Willie Roaf (2 all-decade teams) and/or Dermontti Dawson (6 consecutive 1st Team All-Pro selections), who in my opinion are both more more worthy of selection. Also, the Hall of Fame has only inducted 2 guards on the 1st Ballot (Bruce Matthews and Gene Upshaw) and hasn’t been kind to guards who made tons of Pro Bowls, but have no Rings (see Tom Mack, Randall McDaniel, and Mike Munchak). In fact with a steady stream of linemen coming up over the next few years (Allen, Ogden, Jones, Pace, Mawae, Faneca if he retires after this season), he might have to wait awhile.

175. Brad on January 12, 2011 at 9:00 pm

     Shane Lechler could in fact be the first punter in canton. I think he can end up being a 9x Pro Bowler and be named to 7 first team all Pros. He is already a 6x Pro Bowler and a 5x First Team All Pro and he was just named to the Sporting News 1st Team All Pro. Time will tell, but he is ballot worthy without a doubt.

176. Paul on January 13, 2011 at 1:08 pm

     The 6 OL to be eligible over the next 4 years is going to be real interesting for the selection committee to sort out in some order of election.
     2011 Roaf (6/9) 90s 00s teams
     2012 Shields (9/12) 00s
     2013 Allen (6/11) 90s 00s
     2013 Ogden (6/11) 00s
     2014 Pace (5/7) 00s
     2014 Jones (4/9) 00s

     The fact the strongest candidates appear to come up first (Roaf, Shields, Allen) and with the weaker election years of 2012 and 2013 means that those three would likely go in in some 3 year order from 2012 to 2014, with Pace and Jones in subsequent years. At any rate it looks like with the next several elections all 6 will add to the list of OL currently in the HOF. And Dawson needs to get in soon (2011 or 2012) before added to this incoming group. I agree that Shields is in a very tight spot if not elected as 1st ballot in 2012 (which I agree it is likely he will not) then that would put him up against from pretty steep competitors with Allen and Ogden starting in 2013.

     OL situation is very similar to the current backlogs of WRs and RBs that also needs to get sorted out in the next few elections before other WRs and RBs start to arrive on the scene.

     I also agree that the NBC article discussion of Barber and Smith, and Sharpe vs Smith is offbase.

177. Raider John on January 15, 2011 at 2:55 am

     I really don’t care who makes the Hall of Fame but, if Tim Brown does not make it this time around, the people who decides this are idiots. Lets look at the facts….Brown has nearly 15000 yads, about 1100 receptions with 100 touchdowns despite having to deal with medicore quarterbacks like Jay Schroeder, Jeff Hostetler, Jeff George, Todd Marinovich, Donald Hollis, Billy Joe Hobert, Rick Mirer, Vince Evans, and probaly more that I cant think who have started for the oakland raiders at quarterback and then finally in the last years of his carrer he had the great Rich Gannon…oh yea and never had Tim Brown had other reciever threats like Chris Carter did with Randy Moss and Jake Reed….Rice had with John Taylor, Brent Jones, TO, ROger Craig…..Reed had with Don BeBe…So despite playing with medicore ( at best) quarterbacks and no other offensive threats, Tim Brown has put up the best numbers of any of the remaining receivers hall of fame candidates and as far as all the new guys like TO, Marvin Harrison, and Randy Moss passing Tim Brown on the all time recieveing list, I sure wish when Tim Brown played, DB’s couldn’t touch him past five yards…Tim Brown is arguable the greatest reciever of all time to all you raider hating scumbags!

178. Bev on January 17, 2011 at 10:22 am

     Tell me, was Mark Bavaro ever inducted? If not, why not? He was an excellent player during the Phil Simms era on the Giants.
     What about Junior Seau? He was a pro-bowler many times.
     I think the NFL should examiner their criteria for nominations to the hall of fame.

179. Tony on January 17, 2011 at 11:07 am

     Bavaro is not in, and is extremely unlikely to get in. He’s only a 2x pro-bowler/2x All-Pro, only played 9 seasons (one of which he was hurt more than half the year), and compiled only 351 catches for 4,700 yards and 39 TDs. Good numbers, but not great–especially when compared to a guy like Ben Coates (5/2/499/5555/50) who is also an extreme long shot, and Shannon Sharpe (8/4/815/10,060/62), who will get in but is having to wait.

     Seau will almost assuredly get in–wouldn’t surprise me if he’s a first ballot guy–he just hasn’t been eligible yet.

180. Billy on January 17, 2011 at 12:14 pm

     I’m going to revise my original picks now that Lester Hayes will have to wait for a senior selection.

     1. Deion Sanders
     2. Marshall Faulk
     3. Shannon Sharpe
     4. Curtis Martin
     5. Ed Sabol
     6. Chris Hanburger
     7. Les Richter

181. bachslunch on January 17, 2011 at 12:53 pm

     Tim Brown is very deserving of the HoF and surely will be elected, but he’ll have to wait his turn behind a backlog of Andre Reed and Cris Carter, both of whom have been eligible longer. Patience, Raider John — Brown gets in sooner or later, and waits of a couple years for WRs isn’t unusual.

     Tony’s right about Mark Bavaro — his career is too short, the HoF is not knee-deep in TEs, and there are better players at the position still not in ahead of him — and Junior Seau, who surely will be elected but isn’t eligible yet.

182. Brad on January 17, 2011 at 7:26 pm

     I agree. Do you think Jason Witten is a Hall of Famer? 2/7/none. 617 receptions, 6,967 receiving yards, 36 receiving TD’s, and 3 seasons with at least 90 receptions is a strong case and he has years left. If he gets an average of 70 receptions per year, for the next 3 seasons, he will end up with 827 receptions. He averages 77 receptions per year.

183. Paul on January 17, 2011 at 11:18 pm

     Billy: I can not see Faulk and Martin both going in as 1st ballot this year, my guess would be that Carter or Dawson replace Martin on your list. Dent is also a possibility for Sharpe.

184. Brad on January 18, 2011 at 12:57 am

     I agree Paul. I think Marshall Faulk is a first ballot. C-Mart will only have to wait another 3 years or so. Making the finals on the first ballot is pretty good, in my eyes. Same with Jerome Bettis. I think Shannon Sharpe and/ or Cris Carter final gets elected. But, sometimes it doesn’t “play” out as it should. We will see.

     Side note: Are John Lynch and Ruben Brown Hall of Famers? My take: John Lynch has a pretty good case: 9x Pro Bowler, 2 First team All Pro. One of the most feared hitters in NFL history. Was a big part of the defense of the 2002 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Super Bowl Team. ( Warren Sapp will get in, Derrick Brooks will get in on probably the first ballot, Simeon Rice and Ronde Barber are long shots, but definitely going to be on the ballot every year they are eligible ) .

     Ruben Brown: 9x Pro Bowler, 4x 2nd Team All Pro. I don’t think he will make it, but 9 Pro Bowls is a lot. But the line of linemen(no pun intended) is pretty long.

185. Paul on January 18, 2011 at 9:34 am

     Jason Witten is certainly building a HOF career (and only at the age of 28!), and he has another 4 or 5 years left in the prime of his career. He could retire in the top 3 of TE career rec and yards.

186. Brad on January 18, 2011 at 4:36 pm

     John David Crow, Heisman Trophy Winner in 1957. He was drafted 2nd overall in the 1958 NFL draft by the Chicago Cardinals. So, right off the bat, he has expectations. He spent 9 seasons with them (2 in Chicago and 7 in St. Louis) and spent 4 seasons with the San Fransisco 49ers. He played running back and tight end. He was a 4x Pro Bowler, but never made the First Team All Pro. Only had one 1,000 yard rushing season. But, take it all in with a grain of salt. He had a total of 73 TD’s (38 rushing and 35 receiving). For his time, that was pretty good. Everything is relative to its time. He was versatile. He could pass too (33/70, 759 yards, 5 TD’s, 5 Ints). I know there not pretty numbers like LT( 8/12, 143 yards, 7 TD’s, 0 Ints), but it’s all good. But, I think he deserves some love.

     Billy Cannon is a much similar case. 1959 Heisman Trophy Winner. Drafted 1st overall in the 1960 NFL Draft by the Los Angeles Rams, and also was drafted by the Houston Oliers in the 1960 AFL Draft. He chose the Houston Oilers. His rookie season resulted in 2nd team All AFL. 2nd season, he led the AFL in rushing yards with 948 yards, 5 rushing TD,s also had 586 receiving yards and 9 receiving TDs. Pretty impressive season. Than he went to the Raiders in 1964. He played fullback , but focused more on the receiving and they converted him as a TE the following season. In 1967, he had 32 receptions for 629 receiving yards ( 19.7 per reception) and 10 receiving TDs, earning First Team All AFL, and didn’t make the Pro Bowl. . His totals are: 2,455 rushing yards, 3,656 receiving yards, 178 punt return yards, and 1,701 kick return yards, and 65 total TDs ( 17 rushing, 47 receiving, and 1 kick return). Not staggering but its all relative to its time.

187. Brad on January 18, 2011 at 9:41 pm

     I will say this: James Harrison is more of a hall of famer than Lance Briggs.

188. Brad on January 19, 2011 at 1:40 am

     Darrelle Revis is the best cover corners in the league. One of the best since Deion Sanders and Rod Woodson. He will go down as one of the greatest corners ever. I know ifs very early, but he is a proven.

     2009

     VS Randy Moss: 4 receptions, 24 yards,1 Int

     VS Justin Gage: 4 receptions, 37 yards

     VS Marques Colston: 2 receptions , 33 yards

     VS Ted Ginn Jr: 2 receptions, 57 yards 1 TD

     VS Terrell Owens: 3 receptions, 13 yards

     VS Louis Murphy: 4 receptions, 58 yards, 1 Int

     VS Ted Ginn Jr: 0 receptions, 0 yards

     VS Mike Sims-Walker: 3 receptions, 49 yards, 1 TD

     VS Randy Moss: 5 receptions, 34 yards, 1 TD

     VS Steve Smith: 1 reception, 5 yards, 2 Ints, 1 Int TD

     vs- Terrell Owens: 3 receptions, 31 yards, 1 Int

     vs- Antonio Bryant: 2 receptions, 22 yards, 1 Int

     vs- Roddy White: 4 receptions, 33 yards

     vs- Reggie Wayne: 3 receptions, 33 yards

     vs-Chad Ochocinco: 0 receptions, 0 yards

     vs-Chad Ochcinco: 2 receptions, 28 yards, 1 Int

     2010

     vs- Calvin Johnson: 1 reception, 13 yards

     vs-Brandon Marshall: 2 catches, 16 yards, 1 TD

     vs-Hines Ward: 34 yards

     vs- Terrell Owens : 3 receptions, 17 yards

     vs- Reggie Wayne: 1, catch, one yard

     Pro Bowlers Darrelle Revis held 45 yards or less: Terrell Owens, Reggie Wayne, Hines Ward, Calvine Johnson, Chad Ochocinco, Randy Moss, Steve Smith, Roddy White, and Andre Johnson. A total of 9. And out of those, I would say: Terrell Owens, Hines Ward, and Randy Moss are sure shot Hall of Famers and Reggie Wayne and Andre Johnson will both probably have good enough stats. In 2011, There are new Pro Bowlers who he can shut down as well: Dwayne Bowe, Vincent Jackson, Miles Austin, Desean Jackson, and Santana Moss.

189. James Brown on February 2, 2011 at 10:51 pm

     If Cris Carter is bypassed again – it will be a travesty. The Rock and Roll hall of fame is a total joke because they overlook and bypass the obvious inductees… hopefully the football HOF won’t follow that path.

     Just sayin’. Anyone agree with me ?

190. chris on February 3, 2011 at 7:14 am

     I work in the field of merchandising the MLB, NFL, NBA and NHL, but my company focuses primarily on baseball. Knowing the “business side of MLB”, the underlying decision for the Hall of Fame is the revenue that it generates. The pomp and circumstance, the assorted media frenzy, the entire weekend etc. The money that all brings is a large key, but baseball has a whole issue because Selig is unwilling to face the changing role of the sport in society. Football doesn’t have that “public black eye”, at least for now, so agreed, the HOF classes that are coming for the next decade, are really loaded up. That being said, and going back to my point about revenue generated, I agree with the Deion induction. He’s part of that Cowboys dynasty, and he’s very marketable. There will need to be the 2 marginal guys to get in. Marginal meaning they aren’t the “marquee” name, but still huge from the fan and sport perspective. I’d love to see Ray Guy get in, especially since kickers have an entirely new fan base now, but I dont see it happening. Brown (Raider nation alone has pull), Dawson (it is implied for a Steeler ever year it seems), and maybe Roaf can ride the Saints wave. 2 of the 3, I think fall into the “midcard category”. Revenue wise, I don’t see Bettis and Faulk not getting there this year. I like Curtis Martin too, I think he’s 1 more year away. We’ll see in just a few, but here’s my 5 picks for 2011 HOF Class.
     Marshall Faulk-Jerome Bettis-Tim Brown-DD & Deion

191. Paul on February 3, 2011 at 1:51 pm

     Chris: The voters for the HOF are pro football writers who have no mandate or interest in marketing or merchandising for the NFL, every year we see top players who are very well known and marketable (like Deion) get elected but each class has more what you would call “midcard”.

     Bettis will not get in this year, and in fact may have to wait a few more years, which has nothing to do whether he is marketable but instead based on his on the field qualifications. Tim Brown is also not getting in this year for the same reasons as Bettis, he simply is not as strong a candidate as others on the ballot this year in the eyes of the voters.

192. Tony P on February 4, 2011 at 12:01 am

     I’m the resident Cris Carter hater. Hehehe! Over-rated to be sure. I hope Tim Brown makes in first. He seems to be more of the fan favorite. Did Carter ever run across the middle like Brown? I don’t think so!! While Carter was running all of those 10 yd sideline outs and fades in the end zone for TD’s, Brown and Reed were giving up their bodies across the middle breaking tackles. I feel better now. LOL!! I haven’t bashed Carter for a couple months. :)

     That’s impressive stuff on Revis, Brad. I thought this year was an off one. Is he considered a big hitter or int. guy?

193. Brad on February 4, 2011 at 2:29 am

     He made First Team All Pro this year, like last. He held your boy Brandon Marshall to 16 yards. And Andre Johnson to 35. oh and some WR named calvin johnson to 16. haha Just saying Tony P. :). He is like Nnamdi. He is an excellent cover corner. He can Int and he hits hard. He’s an all round corner.

194. Kyle D. on February 5, 2011 at 8:58 am

     There is NO way Cris Carter should be left out again! At the time of his retirement he was basically #2 all-time in just about everything dealing with wide receiver’s behind who? Jerry Rice… the one that many say is the best football player ever to play the game. So, with that said…. how can you leave C.C. out? The guy had the best hands in NFL history, quit playing around with the man’s mind and put him in the Hall, where he belongs. As a previous post mentioned, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is a joke because of the lack of those in it that should be. Don’t do the same Pro Football Hall of Fame, you have a great place that I enjoy visiting with my son frequently. Don’t become a joke, keep it sacred!

195. Paul on February 5, 2011 at 11:45 am

     The HOF is not a joke or needs to be kept sacred by having anyone player elected, let alone Carter. Many a great player way above the candidancy of Carter, have had to wait to be elected.

196. Tony P on February 5, 2011 at 7:27 pm

     Cris Carter, Timmy Brown and Charles Haley are shunned again!!! No HOF in 2011.

197. Tony P on February 5, 2011 at 7:35 pm

     Wow!! Ed Sabol, Richard Dent and Shannon Sharpe along with Faulk and Sanders. Than the Seniors Richter and Hanburger. What do you guys think?

198. Paul on February 5, 2011 at 7:35 pm

     Class of 2011: Dent, Faulk, Hanburger, Richter, Sabol, Sanders, Sharpe
     Let the debate begin!

199. Paul on February 5, 2011 at 7:49 pm

     I think it is a pretty good class, although none of us guessed correctly we were close. Appears that the late momentum for Sabol played out and that Sharpe beat out Carter. However I do think this election highlights the need for a separate contributors nominee every 2 or 3 years in place of one of the senior candidates so a contributor it not taking a deserving players spot.

200. Tony - Zoneblitz on February 5, 2011 at 7:55 pm

     Guys, we will get a post up a little later tonight about this year’s class–and undoubtedly will get one up tonight or tomorrow looking forward to 2012 as well.

201. Tony P on February 5, 2011 at 7:57 pm

     Boy did Hanburger have a great attitude about being elected so late in life. Really maybe us fans and even the players themselves ex. CC should just cool our jets and put such an emphasis on being elected. It’s a fact that there is a huge backlog and in today’s instant gratification attitude I’m thinking it just needs to take a backseat. Now if the system was corrected than, well that’s a big if.

202. Ron Chabot on February 5, 2011 at 8:02 pm

     Tim Brown should have made this class. Don’t blame him for playing for the Raiders and Al Davis. NFL never rules for the Raiders on anything. Recall the TUCK RULE, Patriots should never played in that Super Bowl because the elite of the NFL hates uncle Al.

203. Ron Chabot on February 5, 2011 at 8:09 pm

     Brown is a true Champion and Carter nothing but a big mouth who never ran accross the field and took a hit. Sideline Cris is my name for Carter.

204. Paul on February 5, 2011 at 8:20 pm

     I agree Tony P, but as to correcting the systems unless the maximum number of elected players was expanded to 10 or more (not a step I would advocate for) there are always going to be backlogs and deserving players waiting way too many years to get elected. The only change I would recommend, and have seen some discussion and support for, is having a separate election catagory for contributors every few years so they are not taking spots from players.

205. Tony on February 5, 2011 at 9:45 pm

     @Ron – Walt Coleman is NFL Elite? Everything I’ve read has said that he technically got the call right, even if the rule was kind of stupid.

     Carter was a loudmouth, no doubt about that. But I don’t remember him having any problems going across the middle–no more than several other big name WR, anyway. And either way, his numbers warrant his election to the HOF…eventually.

206. Brad on February 5, 2011 at 10:05 pm

     I can’t believe Cris Carter or Tim Brown didn’t make it. But I understand- the Shannon Sharpe, Richard Dent,and Ed Sabol picks. Deion Sanders and Marshall Marshall Marshall (Chris Berman voice) were locks. C-Mart is ahead of Jerome Bettis according to the voting. Glad to see that. Curtis was more consistent. 4th most rushing yards. Besides LT, no one active is threatening it yet. But players like Chris Johnson and AP can get there.

207. Paul on February 5, 2011 at 10:39 pm

     And for the second year in a row Reed advanced to the final 10 while Carter and Brown did not. Looks like Carter and Brown fans are going to upset again next year. Really the voters are going to need to sort out this mess at WR and pull together enough votes to get one of them elected rather then keep spliting the votes among the three.

208. Brad on February 5, 2011 at 10:54 pm

     When T.O. retires in about a year, I would like imagine Andre Reed, Cris Carter, and Tim Brown would all be in the hall before T.O. is eligible. I expect Randy Moss to play at least 3 more seasons. But, I don’t think T.O. or Randy Moss are first ballots. I have a feeling they might wait as long as Cris and Tim are. But, Randy could pad his stats if he lands a good team. Jets cough cough. haha. If they can’t sign Holmes and Edwards, I say if he is a free agent, pick up Randy. Or Plaxico for that matter. Great players. But they will sign Holmes IMO, and maybe Edwards. They might let him walk. And they could draft one . Well see.

209. Tony on February 5, 2011 at 11:04 pm

     Brad–I’ve heard from sources that I consider to be fairly reliable that there is a lot of opinion that Moss is done. The basic feeling is that no team will offer him anything other than a Veteran minimum, come in and prove it type contract–and Moss may be too stubborn to take that.

     I’m not saying it’s a definite, but that’s just some of what I’ve been hearing.

210. Brad on February 6, 2011 at 3:09 am

     I will find it hard to believe not one team would pick him up. I’m just saying. Don’t be surprised if the Jets try to get him if they don’t land Holmes and/or Edwards. Yes, give him a one year try out deal. I also think T.O. is going somewhere. Teams will pick up these guys. But, regardless, they’re HOFers (if you hate them or like them). What are your guys super bowl picks? GO PACK GO! Not good at predicting scores at all, but 24-21 sounds not too bad.

211. Paul on August 1, 2011 at 6:07 pm

     Well apparently he is done