I somehow just stumbled across a new (to me) sports related site (Grantland.com) that is somehow tied to The Sports Guy (my 3+ year ESPN embargo may have had something to do with my not hearing of it sooner).
In checking out some parts of the site, I saw a name that is somewhat familiar to me, Chuck Klosterman. Now, I readily admit that I don’t really know why I’ve heard the name–something makes me think it has something to do with the time I used to spend as a commentor at RandBall. But that really isn’t a part of the story.
In looking at Klosterman’s recent articles, I saw that he recently posted an article about the Hall of Fame induction–and I found the article to be a somewhat interesting read, and was wondering what our audience of regular Hall of Fame commenters would have to say about it.
The two major points that I found interesting:
- The first line of the story:
“Here’s the most important thing to realize about the Pro Football Hall of Fame: It does not exist.”
I realize this is (presumably) more of a philosophical statement–but I’m not sure I agree at all. But I’m not sure I can explain why I don’t agree.
- Later in the story:
But it’s the selections of [Richard] Dent and [Shannon] Sharpe that are most interesting. They’re interesting because both of those players — while indisputably “great” — are bubble selections not altogether different than a bunch of newly eligible guys who didn’t make the cut (Cris Carter, Willie Roaf, Curtis Martin).
Aside from the point that Cris Carter wasn’t newly eligible (nor were Dent or Sharpe), I thought it was interesting that he considered Shannon Sharpe a bubble selection. I would agree on Dent–but Sharpe, there was never a doubt in my mind that he would make it, especially since he helped redefine a position.
I also think Carter, Roaf and Martin are eventual locks–Roaf and Martin as soon as 2012. So I have a feeling that Klosterman hasn’t spent as much time looking into the selection process, and some of the information that goes into it–which might make him more like the general public than your average Zoneblitz commenter.
So what do you all think of the article, and specifically the points above?
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Just finished reading this, and my reaction is that Klosterman is a philosophical and well-meaning writer who unfortunately doesn’t have a good handle on what does and does not constitute a “bubble candidate” for the Pro Football HoF (Shannon Sharpe is not a “bubble candidate” at TE, nor are Cris Carter, William Roaf, or Curtis Martin). Or the Baseball HoF, for that matter (sorry, but there’s no good argument whatsoever for Roger Maris being in the latter HoF). I don’t get the whole point he’s making by connecting up Ray Guy and Ken Stabler — they’re at totally different positions, for crying out loud. Plus he misses the whole point that you don’t get forgotten about once you get elected into a HoF — that’s the whole “reason for being” for such entities. His background is as a pop music critic and writer, and while he has done some writing on sports the last few years, he sounds like a dabbler in the subject.
I think Klosterman’s being more nebulous than the issue warrants, myself. His essay reads pretty well, though — clearly, he writes in a capable, compelling style — and he makes the occasional interesting point. But you need sufficient depth of knowledge on the subject you’re writing about as well, and I think his knowledge here is pretty surface-oriented and non-analytical. In short, nice surface, but weak substance.
Tony, you’re right — “general public” is the operative phrase for Klosterman on this issue.
MY initial observation when I first read the article is “yea we all know that any HOF is not real or an actual team” but it represents a career achievement honor awarded to the best players, no different than companies giving career awards for the top salesmen.
And yes sometimes in close cases some players are selected and some are not. Sometimes it takes years for any player to get elected BECAUSE ELECTIONS ARE LIMITED TO 5 modern players per year. So Sharpe, Dent and Carter do not elected in any given year including their first few years on the ballot, sometimes they simply have to “wait” until their turn, like many other great players before them have. Unless you are of the best players of all time with the top career records, MVPs, many all pro team selections, multiple SBs, you may find yourself waiting several years to get selected.
And I do not buy his case that Dent is a “bubble candidate”: a Superbowl MVP, tied for 6th all time in sacks(was #1 when he retired), and key member of one of the defenses in the history of the NFL??
I do not see a strong case for Stabler above any of the finalists in recent years, his career numbers are not very good and his case is weaker then the many other 1970s QBs already in the HOF and the 6 other Raiders from the mid/late 1970s era also already in the HOF.
In my opinion, Ray Guy deserves to be in the HOF but the truth is that K, P and special team players are always going to face a hard road into the HOF which currently only has one true kicker. It should also be noted that Ray Guy does not hold any of the NFL career punting records, certainly a weakness when considering him to be the first pure punter in the HOF. I can see why many, including voters, would debate against his selection.
What Klosterman, any many other critics of the election process, continue to ignore is that selection is a numbers game, with only a limited number of slots each year and when the differences between many players is not great nor the differences between “great” and “bubble” not always that clear, it means deserving players like Roaf, Carter, and Martin simply have to wait. It has always been that way if you do the research look at so many of the all time greats who waited years to get selected.
Sure the Hall of fame exists. It is located in Canton, Ohio.
I read this article awhile ago when it was first published. I can’t really add too much to what was said by bachslunch and Paul as they summed it up perfectly.
It was a well-written article, but the author clearly didn’t have a great handle on 1) what a bubble candidate was…apparently anybody who doesn’t get in on the first ballot is considered one, and 2) that the hall of fame is a numbers game every year, so not every worthy candidate can get in…that’s part of the fun!
Despite the fact that the hall of fame made some mistakes for a number of years by voting down some very worthy senior candidates and electing less than the maximum inductees in far too many classes, I think they’ve done a much better job in previous years.