Assuming Ray Lewis follows through on his plans to retire, the only likely hurdle between him and a first-ballot Hall of Fame induction in five years would be the memory of legal issues he faced in 2001 after two individuals were killed in a fight with Lewis and his companions after the Super Bowl.
While the most serious of the charges we’re dropped in exchange for his testimony against others, he pled guilty to obstruction of justice, avoiding prison time and ensuring that he’d be able to continue what ended up being one of the best careers a linebacker has had in NFL history.
That career included 13 pro bowls, seven first-team All-Pros, a Super Bowl MVP award, two NFL Defensive Player of the Year awards, three AFC Defensive Player of the Year awards, being named to the 2000’s All-Decade team, and a host of other awards and records (see the sidebar here). So while his legal troubles may be a discussion point in the Hall of Fame conversation (even if they’re not supposed to be), the debate isn’t whether or not he will get in, it’s only a possible debate about when.
And the bigger debate, in many people’s eyes, is where exactly he falls in the list of “Greatest of all-time” for Linebackers (realistically, probably inside or outside ‘backers).
Personally, while I’ve always thought he was great, I also thought he also was greatly aided by usually playing on teams that had a system (and the players up front) to funnel traffic his way and keep blockers off of him–so I would be hesitant to put him ahead of guys like Lawrence Taylor, Dick Butkus and possibly even a few more (Ray Nitschke? Mike Singletary? Jack Lambert or Jack Ham?).
So we put the word out to you (especially our regular Hall of Fame commenters)–we’ve got the poll going, is Lewis the greatest of all time, or who would you rank ahead of him? Let us know in the comments.
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Ray Lewis is certainly not the best LB of all time as he would fall at somewhere at fourth best, behind at least Lawrence Taylor, Dick Butkus, and Ray Nitschke, and perhaps even a little lower.
this is how I rat my LB’s
1. Lawrence Taylor
2. Dick Butkus
3. Mike Singletary
4. Jack Lambert
5. Willie Lanier
6. Ray Lewis
7. Jack Ham
8. junior Seau
9. Bobby Bell
10. Sam Huff
11. Ray Nitshke
12. Ted Hendricks
13. Joe Schmidt
14. Bill George
15. Derrick Thomas
Neither is Ray Nitschke. In my opinion, he doesn’t even belong the Hall of Fame.
Lewis, however, does and I think Lewis was better than Nitschke was but he was not as good as Taylor or Butkus were.
Yeah, Butkus probably gets my nod in the middle, and Taylor overall. Junior Seau is another I forgot to bring up–I always thought he was a MLB, but I’ve seen some say he actually was an OLB (and I wonder if he was really more of just a LB that played wherever…one of the most instinctual players I’ve ever seen, from what I could tell).
“1. Lawrence Taylor
2. Dick Butkus
3. Mike Singletary
4. Jack Lambert
5. Willie Lanier
6. Ray Lewis
7. Jack Ham
8. junior Seau
9. Bobby Bell
10. Sam Huff
11. Ray Nitshke
12. Ted Hendricks
13. Joe Schmidt
14. Bill George
15. Derrick Thomas”
Joe Schmidt should be way higher, in my opinion. He has a profile of 8/10. He made the 1950s all decade. He has to be one of, if not, the single most glaring omission from the 75th anniversary team in my opinion.
In hindsight I may have placed Nitshke a little high but I would still keep him in top 10 along with others on the very good list Corey has provided, his top 5 is outstanding. The only issue I would have is how high Ham is listed but would agree that Lewis falls somewhere in the mix with others from 6 to 10. Whenever a recent great player like Lewis retires the media and public are often too quick to state him as the greatest before looking back at over 80 years of NFL history to understand many other LBs have played the game. I think one of the challenges in ranking LBs is the various roles traditionally assigned to ILB and OLB, differences between 3-4 and 4-3 defenses and the evolution in the LB position in the recent eras compared to the pre 1980s, which makes such lists to compare players very difficult.
Not my list, Paul. I was quoting Billy. I haven’t had my list but perhaps I should make one.
I can’t see Nitschke being in the top ten though.
Maybe we should have qualified the poll as middle linebacker or inside linebacker. I certainly understand the arguments people are making for guys like L.T. and Butkus.
Good lists.
Here’s a list of 30 best LBs — not a bad one, either:
http://www.sports-central.org/sports/2010/02/24/the_best_linebackers_of_alltime.php
The writer, Brad Oremland, has Lewis as 3rd best, behind Dick Butkus at #2 and Lawrence Taylor at #1.
And a couple threads over at the Pfraforum for people’s “Mt. Rushmore” of OLBs and ILBs (best 4):
http://www.pfraforum.org/index.php?showtopic=2167
http://www.pfraforum.org/index.php?showtopic=2168
Sorry but I do not agree that Ray Nitschke and Kevin Greene were better linebackers than Chris Hanburger was. It’s good to see that the first link gave Joe Schmidt some respect. Schmidt is definitely top ten in my opinion and I totally agree with him being on the Mount Rushmore of middle linebackers. Schmidt should have made the 75th anniversary team.
All any player can be is the best of his generation, and Lewis is universally recognised as that. As to the greatest of all time, who knows?
To a great extent, especially amongst the players of yesteryear, it depends on how much people saw them. Randy Gradishar was a god amongst linebackers (2000+ career tackles in just 10 years??!!), but played for the Broncos in the 70s, so got much less airtime than contemporaries like Lambert and Ham who were busily heading to Superbowls. (Incidentally Walter Payton, no less, said that Gradishar hit him hardest of anyone – I’ll take his word for it) Robert Brazile of the Oilers was an immense player who has for reason been missed from Canton; but he was named to the all-decade team that included said Steelers’ #58 – so he must have been doing something right.
Hardy Brown was almost certainly the most feared linebacker in history, putting more players out of a game than anyone else ever, but he’s another not even in the hall of fame. Different eras, different criteria, different sport.