In recent years, I think the Hall of Fame voters have done a pretty decent job. They haven’t selected every player I would have preferred to see, but their choices have, by and large, been defensible. They’ve cleared some backlogs, notably at the WR position. And they’ve, for the most part, left off fringe borderline guys in order to get some truly qualified players enshrined.
But this 2017 class is the most disappointed I’ve been in several years. It’s not just that they didn’t follow my desired ballot. And it’s not that I think the candidates selected this year were uniformly not qualified for enshrinement in the Hall.
It’s more that this year’s entrants just feel like a collection of compromise candidates. Among my issues:
- Terrell Davis was a great RB and he may deserve to be in the Hall. But the short tenure of his career, against someone like Terrell Owens, makes Davis a questionable pick.
- Though he is one of the great kickers of all-time, Morten Andersen was on the field for, what, 10 to 12 plays per game most of the time? He belongs in the Hall as one of the League’s all-time highest scorers, but not until voters solve the safety position – which is flush with qualified candidates from first-time-eligible Brian Dawkins to multi-year candidates like Steve Atwater and John Lynch. Let’s sum it up this way: Despite the plethora of qualified candidates, the voters have now selected two special teamers in the last four years (Andersen and Ray Guy in 2014) while not adding a single one of the safeties.
- Kurt Warner was the best QB among modern-era candidates. And he had great moments and he’s a great story, but his was an up-and-down career. He’s waited a few years. But offensive linemen like Joe Jacoby are equally qualified and running out of remaining eligibility. Warner’s resume is not so overwhelming that he couldn’t wait in favor of an equal candidate with fewer years left.
- Owens could not even make it into the final five? We’re talking about a WR some believe to be the second best ever. Even now, seven years removed from the game, Owens is third in receiving TDs with 153, second in yards with 15,934 and eighth in receptions with 1,078. I get that he was a jackwagon at times, that he wasn’t always a model citizen or a great guy. And sure, some will argue that if Tim Brown, Cris Carter and Andre Reed had to wait, Owens can too. But … HE DIDN’T EVEN MAKE THE FINAL 10. To me he’s the second or third strongest candidate in the final 15, but that aside, there is ZERO cogent argument for him not making the final 10.That is purely a vengeful play by writer/voters.
- It’s not getting as much attention as the Owens snub, but the enshrined seven all also will get their gold jackets before Kevin Mawae and Alan Faneca, two guys who easily were nearly peerless during their playing days. Consider this: Both Mawae (eight) and Faneca (nine) played in more Pro Bowls than Davis played seasons. Faneca also had six first-team AP All Pro awards and, in his down years, added two second-team AP awards. Mawae had three firsts and four seconds.
- The non-election of Paul Tagliabue only further illustrates the folly that is alternating years between two seniors and a contributor with two contributors and a senior. I believe Tagliabue is Hall worthy for his ability to maintain labor peace for his entire tenure, after players strikes interrupted play twice in the last seven years of Pete Rozelle’s tenure. But if voters find him borderline, there are better candidates than him and, frankly, Jerry Jones, whose candidacy feels ridiculously rushed when there are guys like Bobby Beathard out there waiting. That said, there are far fewer contributors who are must-have Hall enshrinement candidates than there are senior candidates. Let’s get the Chuck Howleys and Johnny Robinsons and Jerry Kramers and others who actually helped build the game on the field in while they are, for the most part, still around and wait on forcing more questionable contributors onto the annual ballot.
- Some question how Jason Taylor got in on his first try while Michael Strahan had to wait. That I don’t have as much a problem with, as Strahan was a victim of numbers when Warren Sapp, Jonathan Ogden and Larry Allen also were eligible for the first time. Not all first-time warranted candidates are going to get in right away and that class has to rank as one of the most impressive in Hall history. Jason Taylor just happened to retire in the right year.
You tell me which would be the stronger enshrinement class of 2017:
| Voters’ class | Andy’s class |
| LaDainian Tomlinson | LaDainian Tomlinson |
| Jason Taylor | Jason Taylor |
| Kurt Warner | Alan Faneca |
| Terrell Davis | Brian Dawkins |
| Morten Andersen | Kevin Mawae |
| Kenny Easley – Senior | Kenny Easley – Senior |
| Jerry Jones – Contributor | Jerry Jones – Contributor |
| Paul Tagliabue – Contributor |
The class isn’t a complete washout. Tomlinson and Taylor are greats. Warner has the support of many. I have no problem with he, Davis or Andersen getting into the Hall at some point. But to make those three round out a single class is, to me, not the way to go.
Even among the final 10, there were ways the voters could have gone that would have made this a much stronger class. Some of the guys cut in the 15 to 10 and 10 to 5 votes were a clear notch above some of the guys getting in this year. And that will have consequences for good candidates down the line.
In 2018 and probably down the line, we’ll see a strong incoming first-year class headlined by Randy Moss, another enigmatic WR with great numbers. Some voters will want to put him in right away and others will want to see him wait. That debate doesn’t even touch the growing logjam at safety (that we saw coming even a couple years ago) that will only be getting tighter and tighter.
Voters had just gotten themselves out of a similar situation that caused Cris Carter, Tim Brown and Andre Reed to wait longer than any of them deserved. Apparently they did not learn their lessons.
Whose HOF class is stronger
- Andy's proposed 2017 class is stronger (70%, 7 Votes)
- The H.o.F. Voters got it right (30%, 3 Votes)
Total Voters: 10
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Seems to me that PFHOF voters gave high value to league MVPs and SB MVPs (Warner and Davis have both) over players with longer careers that gave them bigger career numbers plus more all pro, pro bowl selections. Frankly I can see cases made for both approaches, and since Davis and Warner have been in the discussion as finalists, and in the final 10, in recent years I can see why the PFHOF voters would support their election.
Recent history, plus this election, also clearly shows how candidates with similar background from the same position on the ballot can cancel themselves out among the votes of 48 committee members. Jacoby/ Boselli/Franeca/Mawee, and then Lynch/Dawkins. As with the WRs in recent years it will take someone to break the logjam and starting electing these players one a year, and it many take a few years to get that started (was was case for the WRs).
As interior lineman (C/G), Kevin Mawae and Alan Faneca are simply being impacted by the long standing historical approach by the PFHOF voters to devalue those positions, especially compare to OT and even DL. As such I am not surprised of their wait, or that Boselli suddenly has jumped ahead (every possible he gets elected before both, perhaps even next year). But looking forward to 2018-2021 they are both well positioned as the top OL candidates for election, so I see both their elections as on the horizon. Unfortunately as Jacoby reaches his last year as a modern candidate, unless someone pushes hard for his election soon and can gather enough support, I am afraid he may end up in the seniors pool (where I have no doubt he would surface quickly as a candidate-but at the cost of pushing back equal or more qualified and longer waiting senior candidates).
As to Tagliabue, there are two more years and three more contributor slots (2018-1; 2019-2) before the current process ends, unless modified or extended by PFHOF board. My hope would be that 3 other more deserving candidates fill those slots, but if the contributor slot exists for 2020 and beyond (personally I would like it to go permanently to 1 slot per year and include coaches) it is very likely at some point soon after Tagliabue will be nominated by the committee again.
I am also reading that former players and team officials (teammates plus others in the league) who were contacted by some of the PFHOF voters gave their strong opinions that TO’s divisiveness was a real impact for the teams he played with-apparently these views carried significant weight with voters. And all indications are that TO may be in for a long wait towards election, certainly beyond 2018. I have also seen were similar concerns may impact Moss next year, but I suppose we will have to wait and see how the 2018 voting rounds play out on that front.
Not so sure why Andy is that surprised about election of TD and Kurt Warner-they were both final 10 candidates last year, and those candidates tend to move forward to election. For me the two surprises were Morten Andersen, but I did catch some late buzz that he had a chance, and since we can agree that kickers are football players too, having a 2x all decade team member and all time points leader in the PFHOF does seem justified (although I get that he could have waited a few more years). For me the biggest surprise was not only the non-election of Joe Jacoby but the fact that he actually fell back in the process not making the final 10 this year when he did in 2016. I think we need to play more attention to the fact that as the number of voters has increased to 48, split votes are clearly becoming more and more of an issue, and with Jacoby/Boselli/Mawae/Faneca that was a problem-one we will have watch for in coming elections, Another lesson for me is the increasing value voters are placing on all decade first team members-a factor I am accounting more for with my 2018 predictions.
And as to whether voters could have cleared the OL and S logjams this year, yes that would have been helpful, but not sure how you manage that by avoiding split votes. I suppose like the recent WR it takes a strong person in the room to make the call for voters to unify behind a player. I remain hopeful from what I have been reading in recent days that Dawkins could be that player as soon as next year, perhaps same for Boselli. Keep in mind that the voters love those Tackles and devalue the G and C positions, so I think the only way the OL logjam can be opened is to start with Boselli (one advantage is no other better OL candidates coming in next few years so time to clear OL off the ballot). And TD, Warner – and yes even Andersen – were multiple year finalists and any time those are removed by election it does clear the board for future years.
Not so much surprised, Paul. More disappointed. I wrote that I think those guys are ok enshrinees – I just think there are several much stronger candidates who deserve it more.
Really think Davis this year, like Haley two years ago, is a mistake. Warner, Tomlinson, Andersen all get my vote. I’d have had Taylor wait.
I agree on the contributor/senior thing. Absolutely Bobby Beathard belongs.
Not sure why anyone would think Davis is a mistake, 2000y season, season MVP, 2SBs, SB MVP, record for average rushing per game in playoffs, seems like ideal candidate who had a short career. Perhaps he could have waited until 2018 or 2019, but has been a finalist and final 10 and waited already, so I have no problem with his election this year (or any other).
Haley was a major defensive impact player for two teams and important contributor to 5 SB teams, he was perhaps the best defensive player in his prime on all those teams. During his peak from late 1980s to mid 1990s offensive schemes had to account for him. He waited for some time due to lack of career numbers and lack of all pro/pro bowl selections, which was understandable but he was deserving. You simply can not tell the history of the 49ers of the late 80s and the Cowboys of the 1990s without focusing on Haley.
Perhaps Andy but when I look at the this year final 15 and final 10, and those of recent years, they all are deserving and perhaps very difficult to place them in any clear order of selection. Lots of factors impact who gets elected and when, especially first time finalists and then there is the significant impact when players from the same position end up splitting votes. That seemed to be a big issue this year for OL and S positions, but I think (like the recent WR logjam), voters are now more aware of those logjams and we will see progress in 2018 and 2019 to clear them out. Likewise they will have to deal with both Moss and TO starting next year, and although I think Moss has a more direct path to election, perhaps as soon as next year, voters are going to have to come around on TO soon after. Instead of a single or one year focus, sometimes looking at the 2-5 year span provides a better perspective in terms of those elected.
Frankly my concerns, like many others on this board, are centered around – in my view – the inconstant approach by the seniors committee and the serious impact it is having on delaying elections for many of the older well deserving and long time waiting senior candidates. Again in my view, there have been just too many wasted opportunities among the already limited slots over the last 10-15 years in regards to the senior candidates and way too many not elected until after their passing.
Paul I’m not against players with short careers being inducted. I supported Stanfel and Easley.
Problem is, as phenomenal as Davis was, I question if it was enough even for a short career player. After 1998 it was all downhill. A terrific back who was on the right track and yet he got hurt when he was entering his prime years.
Haley, like you said – numbers that don’t stand out. Had less All Pros, less Pro Bowls, no All Decade or DPOY, pretty much the fact that the Modern Era elected him and not Gradishar is a head scratcher to me.
2SBs SB MVP League MVP 2,000y season best per game rushing average in postseason is not enough in a short career??? Those would be enough for a longer career filled with otherwise average seasons.
Was Gradisher the key defensive player winning 5 SBs with two different teams? We all know that is Haleys qualification for PFHOF. It’s that simple.
Gradishar had the numbers, the profiles, the awards. That’s his qualifications for Canton. In my opinion, a better, more deserving linebacker than Haley.
Davis did a lot in a couple of seasons. Not much after the repeat.
I’m actually happy with the voting result, at least for the regular candidates. There really weren’t any ultra-elites in the final 15 beyond Tomlinson, so this was a catch-up year. Folks like Andersen and Davis were going to clog the ballot for some time and I think both were deserving (Andersen more so than Davis, but no complaints from me on this). While lukewarm on Jacoby’s candidacy, getting him in would make his clogging up the Senior pool less likely, and that’s fine by me.
The biggest problem for me was denying Tagliabue. It wasted a Contributor slot, and this added to the two wasted Senior slots from a few years ago is a major issue. I’m fine with Jones and Easley being elected, as both have reasonable cases.
Re Haley vs. Gradishar: agreed that the former’s HoF case was borderline, but to my thinking good enough to warrant election. The thing that helped Haley was that he got multiple chances as a finalist, and second tier players who do (like Haley, Lynn Swann, Tom Mack, and Harry Carson) usually make it in eventually. Gradishar has the bad luck to only make the finals twice several years apart, and marinating on the ballot several years would likely have helped him a lot.
Should also say that despite the large number of eventual HoFers coming up next year (Lewis, Moss, Urlacher, Barber, Hutchinson, Seymour), only Lewis strikes me as a likely first ballot type. That could mean as many s four holdovers may get in next time, which will likely mean a few of the logjams from this year will get broken up — but how it shakes out, well your guess is as good as mine.
I think Moss and Urlacker both have strong cases given the value PFHOFers are placing on first team all decade team members (see Jason Taylor case). Possible Moss runs into similar issues as TO has but my sense is that his path may be more direct. And yes with LB Lewis also very possible Urlacker is delayed a year. Also may be impacted if senior candidates are also LBs or DBs. I do not see any of the other 1st time candidates as serious chances in 2018. I do think voters will be forced to resolve Boselli/Mawee and Dawkins/Lynch and I see one from each pair getting in as all where in 2017 final 10. I would like to believe that Jacoby may get push in his final year, except we had Boselli/Mawee split and logjam this year in final 10 which will hold over for 2018. I think Law is well positioned but with Barber appearing on the ballot voters may create a CB split voting, hurting both of them for 2018. I agree that the uncertainty (even by clearing the ballot this year with some long waiting candidates) is high for 2018 mainly because of voters advancing some candidates and pulling others back (Jacoby), and indecision creating all these logjams.
Andersen is the all time leading scorer, and think he was a wonderful choice. I think Jim Bakken would be worthy next when it comes to kickers.
Davis to me is a should have been player. While he was incredible at his height, it was for around three years. Though it wasn’t his fault that he got hurt, I worry what kind of doors this opens.
Him getting in before T.O. is problematic to me. True, T.O. was flamboyant. He also was a model of consistency and excellence as evidenced by the numbers, longevity and profiles. He sure could beat you and though he lost the only Super Bowl he played in, he performed terrifically despite not being 100%.
Don’t see anything about Jacoby that wows me. 2/4/80s. If he’s a senior candidate in 2-3 years I will not be happy. What makes Jacoby more deserving than Kramer, Schafrath, Sweeney, Niland, Kuechenberg or Budde? George Kunz seldom comes up. He’s seldom mentioned.
Here’s what I propose.
Every year, two senior slots, one contributor slot. One senior slot goes to someone who played before the 1970s. The other goes to someone who played after that time.
Something must give.
Agreed, one Contributor and two Seniors should be elected, and add coaches to the former category to make that group more competitive. And to keep from wasting slots, have a vetted slate of 5 Contributors and 10 Seniors presented to the voters. Have the voters rank all candidates from best to worst and elect the two Seniors and one Contributor who score highest.
Also agreed, am on the fence with Jacoby (3/4/80s), but am thinking it’s better to get him in now. If he isn’t elected next year, it’s a lock he takes up a Senior slot a few years from now that would be better used elsewhere.
TD had 2 SBs SB MVP league MVP and best playoff rushing per game average, I am not worried that his election opens opportunities for many more short careers as how many others have those awards records
Been reading plenty of buzz over last few days that voters may in fact treat Moss like TO, there is plenty of evidence and examples that he also was not always 100% effort and dedication on the field. PFHOF voters are already getting plenty of heat over their treatment of TO and if they take the same approach with Owens, the heat will get higher and 2018 elections a really wild unpredictable ride. Their indecisions and splitting of voters with OL and S, plus this WR mess, makes 2018 election one of the most uncertain in the last decade.
The greatest disservice this is creating is more discussion and debate on who does not get in, rather then those who got elected and due attention and focus.
Davis had a couple of great seasons. Not much besides that.
I think it’s best not to vote Jacoby at all rather than jusr gettong rid of him.
going to mix it up and go little more “unpredictable” with the PFHOF voters given what we saw today, here are my updated predictions:
2018: Tony Boselli, Brain Dawkins, Ty Law, Ray Lewis*, Kevin Mawae
2019: Champ Bailey*, Alan Faneca, Tony Gonzalez*, John Lynch, Randy Moss,
2020: Ronde Barber, John Lynch, Terrell Owens, Ed Reed, Brian Urlacker
“what we saw this year”
Paul, you listed John Lynch twice in 2019 and 2020?
Jason Taulor being first ballot, does that open the door for Julius Peppers? I think so. He has a better profile and has more sacks.
corrected
2018: Tony Boselli, Brain Dawkins, Ty Law, Ray Lewis*, Kevin Mawae
2019: Champ Bailey*, Alan Faneca, Tony Gonzalez*, Randy Moss, Ed Reed*
2020: Ronde Barber, John Lynch, Terrell Owens Troy Polamalu*, Brian Urlacker
If correct, 2019 could go down as a top 5 class of all time. Faneca is easily a top 15-20 O linemen, Tony G top 3-4 TE, Randy Moss perhaps 2nd best WR, Reed top 3-4 Safety, and Bailey top 10-12 Corner.
A lot will be determined by the voters starting to address the Safety position in 2018. As both Dawkins and Lynch were in the final 10 this year, I am assuming one is elected in 2018. That would leave the other to battle with Reed in 2019, and still very possible voters will pass on electing a safety as 1st ballot, in that case it could be Lynch in 2018 followed by Reed in 2019.
Also hard to say weather Jacoby and Coryell being pushed back into the final 15 dooms their future on the ballot, including Jacoby who I believe will have his final year as modern in 2018-will he receive support push towards election, over Boselli and Mawae.
And I am predicting Moss will not earn first ballot HOF election as voters will have many of the same issues they are having with TO. But is also very possible one of them gets in next year if voters decide to simply elect one and move on.
Still looking like 2018 could be one of the most unpredictable elections in recent years with only R Lewis a lock. Also may be impact on modern player positions depending on positions of seniors nominated.
With Morten inducted, could Gary Andersen make the semi finalist until Adam V is eligible? I think it’s possible. Also, will Edge have to wait until the 2020s to get inducted?
With only 2 pure kickers in the PFHOF, and Morten getting in largely due to two all decade teams plus career points leader, I think it will be a long time for any kicker to get elected and agree as soon as Adam V is eligible he jumps above Gary A and all other kickers.
Also I think Edge is likely the next RB elected, but yes wait could be several more years, given the many other deserving finalists ahead of him. As I have posted here before the standard of 10,000 yr RBs with 80+ TDs is not as strong and many of those in the current top 20 career rushing, with noted exception of all decade team members, and long shots for PFHOF.
Brad,
Gary Anderson doesn’t much of a chance being a Semi finalist. The problem is Gary Anderson is remembered for missing a field goal against the Atlanta Falcons in the NFC Championship game.
Gary was one of the great kickers back in the 1980’s and 1990’s, but that missed kick defined his legacy as kicker despite the fact he did have a game winning field goal in the playoffs for the 1989 Steelers,
Adam V and Shane Lechler are probably the only two K/P specialists who currently have a shot.
With regards to Edge James, he’s now the clear number 1 RB with Tomlinson and Davis now selected. In fact having TD out of the way has done his chances no harm at all.
The quality of first year candidates though are very strong from 2018-21, so I wouldn’t expect him to be wearing a yellow jacket until certainly after then. There’ll be 10 returning finalists next year plus a few previous finalists like Jimmy Johnson and Steve Atwater. There’s also about 6 new candidates next year who are all worthy of Canton. It’s going to be very competitive for those 15 spots and 1-2 of this year’s finalists may not make the Top 15 cut.
Adrian Peterson and Frank Gore will hit the ballot around the mid 2020s and that would obviously delay Edge’s progress somewhat. There might also be a new name to be the second RB on the semi final list once Roger Craig drops into the Seniors pool.
I think Packerfan4ver unfortunately is right about Gary Anderson. That playoff miss will likely hurt his HoF case. Interestingly enough, he’s the alternate PK on the all-80s and all-90s decade teams (essentially 2nd team on both behind Morton Andersen).
It’s too bad, really. I definitely think he’s HoF deserving, as is Nick Lowery.
Dwight Freeney wants to play another season. If he does, it would help his enshrinement. Doubt he’d be a PBer but he would wait until 2023 and a lot of big names will be inducted by then. If he retired his last year as a Colt, he’d be eligible for 2018. He’d have a long wait. While Peppers seems to be retiring same time as him, he’d still have to stand out on a deep ballot of perhaps 40+ worthy names as of next year. My worthy list from 2017 ballot: Donovan McNabb(senior nominee) Phil Simms(senior nominee) ,Kurt Warner(inducted),Shaun Alexander(SN), Ottis Anderson(SN), Tiki Barber(SN), Roger Craig(SN), Terrell Davis(inducted), Edgerrin James(modern era), LaDainian Tomlinson(inducted), Herschel Walker(SN), Ricky Watters(SN),Isaac Bruce(ME), Henry Ellard (SN), Torry Holt(ME). Terrell Owens(ME), Sterling Sharpe(SN), Hines Ward(ME)Tony Boselli (ME), Alan Faneca (ME), Chris Hinton (SN) ,Joe Jacoby (SN/ME), Mike Kenn (SN),Kevin Mawae (ME), Steve Wisniewski (ME),Leslie O’Neal (ME/SN), Jason Taylor (inducted), ,Cornelius Bennett(SN), Karl Mecklenburg(SN/ME), Sam Mills(SN/ME), Zach Thomas(ME), Eric Allen (SN), Steve Atwater (ME/SN), Joey Browner(SN) ,LeRoy Butler (SN), Brian Dawkins (ME), Ty Law (ME), Albert Lewis (SN), John Lynch (ME), Darren Woodson (ME/SN),Morten Andersen (inducted), Gary Anderson (SN), Sean Landeta(SN), Nick Lowery (SN), Steve Tasker (SN).
As you see, most marked as a Senior Nominee. I expect most will be thrown into that poo’. And very few will ever be inducted. So, Freeney playing the last 4 seasons helped his path. He’ll still have to wait probably 7-9 years, but he won’t be buried by a plethora of quality players like Zach Thomas is at the moment. Big names coming up for the HOF will hurt Freeney anyway.
pool* sorry for the typo.
Agree that T. Davis was a mistake. I guess the new Mendoza line for longevity is now 3 great seasons, with one good one tacked on. That’s too short. Also agree about the urgency of inducting safeties. I’m glad Kurt Warner got in though. An unusual career trajectory but the bottom line is that he was one of the greatest QBs of his era and an historically memorable one.
Are they any current eligible or soon to be eligible candidates with 2 SB wins, SB MVP, 3 1st time all pro, and League MVP, (plus as RB a 2,000 season) and all decade team? I do not believe that the election of Davis (which perhaps should have been in a few more years, but as a finalist we knew he was getting in) is going to open the flood gates for many more short high quality careers that meet that standard. Personally I am glad he is in, is deserving and frankly like Warner moves those debates off the list for future election. Also look at the movement voters gave Boselli, already into the final 10, and also only 7 year career (3/5/00s), so perhaps he is another exception? Looks like short career all decade team players have an advantage (as do other modern candidates as all decade). Be nice if the senior committee focused more on all decade team members-but that is a frequent topic of discussion and one for another day.
I haven’t recently taken an inventory of players with only three great seasons, but TD’s induction certainly makes Sterling Sharpe’s exclusion even more glaring, let alone that of Chuck Howley, a SB MVP who has more first team AP All Pro selections than Davis does full seasons.
Sterling is not a SB MVP, NFL MVP, all decade team member like TD
No, but he did have 5 great seasons and 2 good ones instead of 3 great and 1 good one. He was also one of the three best WRs of his era.
I’m interested to see whether Sterling Sharpe can get a nomination once he hits the Senior pool. There are a lot of fairly deserving WR’s in that pool right now, but few have the peak that Sharpe did (Del Shofner might be the only guy that comes to mind). He also stands out as clearly the best WR from his era that hasn’t been inducted, which definitely can’t be said about any of the WR’s in the late 70’s/early 80’s log jam, and likely can’t be said about any historical receiver outside of again, Del Shofner.
Kenny Easley getting inducted despite a 7-year career with no Super Bowls, and no modern-era consideration gives some reason for hope, but then again he also was on the 80’s all-decade team and had a defensive player of the year award.
It seems to be that in recent years voters are placing increasing value (right or wrong) on the all decade team members, MVPs, OPY/DPOY, including those with short careers like TD and Easley. As to Sterling Sahrpe and his chances in the senior pool, good luck, as there are all decade team member WRs who are even more deserving and have not even been discussed as a finalist.
And I am not so sure having 5 (great)+2 (good) is really much better than 3(outstanding)+ 1 (good). And just wait until the voters select Boselli as clearly from this years voting there is strong support for him as a non-MVP, non-SB, short career player BUT he is a all decade team member!
I can definitely say that if Clark Judge, Rick Gosselin, and Ron Borges from the Talk of Fame website are any indication, they value all-decade team memberships very highly indeed. There are pitfalls to this, particularly for folks who straddle decades, folks who somehow made the team despite what would appear to be a lack of worth (Bobby Walston? Larry Morris? Dave Robinson? Joe Fortuanto on the 50s team? Dave Butz? Jimbo Covert? Howard Mudd? Carl Banks? John Anderson? Levon Kirkland? Carnell Lake?, Joey Porter?) and folks inexplicably left off (Chuck Howley, Maxie Baughan, Billy Howton, Billy Wilson, Tommy McDonald, Jackie Slater, Ken Gray, Rickey Jackson).
But it’s a place to start, I guess.
There are no WRs from Sharpe’s era still out who are more deserving of induction.
Rasputin, agreed that Sterling Sharpe could be seen that way. He has the best peak, for sure. I’d also induct Henry Ellard, whose career fully overlaps Sharpe’s, though he’s got more of a longevity case than peak one. I definitely think both should be in.
Rasputin, by the way, great participation over at the Jordan Talk of Fame thread. We make a god tag team. Thanks!
Yeah, the funny thing is I’ve always leaned toward favoring Stabler’s induction, but I respect the argument against him too and the “reasoning” of that blowhard over there is laughable, from his hypocritical railing against “numbers” on. Kicking around people like that has been fun hobby of mine for years. I’m not a fan of this “awaiting moderation” crap though. It can disrupt the discussion flow. There aren’t THAT many posts. I think ToF could afford to let posts drop and then moderate afterwards if necessary (like if the links are to porn or something I guess), especially if it’s from someone who’s posted there a while. Oh well. If my Cliff Harris/Super Bowl XII one doesn’t drop by Monday I might try reposting it without the links.
With Brandon Marshall most likely playing with a 5th team, will that hurt his HOF candidacy?
Honestly, I think Marshall going to another team can only help his HOF candidacy. He’s currently played the most regular season games of any active player without appearing in the playoffs, which is to say the least an enormous blow to his HOF chances. If he can hook up with a contender, a little bit of playoff stats on his resume could go a long way.
Of course if he plays with a team like Patriots and they go win the SB, he’ll get in no doubt. But, what team would he go in as? Same with TO. What team would he claim? 49ers? Marshall Broncos?
Unlike the baseball HOF where a player has to choose one team, a Pro Football HOFer represents every team they played for.
Sterling Sharpe actually had no chance of being on any all decade all pro team. There is a difference between the WR position and Running back position.
The running back position usually doesn’t have players that play as long as Wide Receivers do. Tim Brown, Cris Carter, Jerry Rice and Michael Ivin all played in every season in the 1990’s aka 1990-1999 to some extent.
The RB position only had 2 all decade team players playing in all the seasons in the 1990’s when that decade team was announced in 2000. Emmitt Smith and Thurman Thomas were the only two.
They certainly didn’t seem to take time actually spent playing in the decade into account for safeties. Ask Ronnie Lott (included somehow) and Darren Woodson (excluded).
Demarcus Ware (4/9/00s/SB/8th all time sacks) has announced his retirement, first of the currently active PFHOF vet pass rushers to do so from the trio of Ware, Peppers and Freeney. Wondering if the other two will get on a team this year or whether 2022 PFHOF will be pass rusher full???
Peppers has returned to the Panthers and will finish his pro career where it began.
Great career for Ware and an easy choice as a future HOFer. He was also a 2nd team All Pro a further 3 times and led the NFL in sacks twice. Ware had a further season (2011) where he finished 2nd with 19.5 sacks, which would’ve normally led the NFL (Jared Allen had 22 that year).
The Super Bowl ring with Denver was icing on the cake. Ware will be eligible in 2022 with Steve Smith and Andre Johnson.
Yea saw that I missed the Peppers resigning among the flurry of FA signings over the last few days. In less there are any major surprise retirements before start of 2017 season, so far looking like the 1st ballot class of 2022 is only Ware. Thinking that although S Smith and A Johnson have cases they both may be in for a long wait on the ballot, especially if other current and upcoming WRs are still on the ballot in 2022. And I have no doubt that both Moss and TO will be elected by then, but that still leaves several other WRs as finalists most likely.
Only other player I could see as likely retirement this year who would be 1st ballot in 2022 would be AP. Any one else possible?? (not considering the wild unexpected or gets injured and unable to play any time in 2017).
Jason Witten seemed like another possible, but appears he is staying on for 2017 unless DAL gets into deep cap problems as he currently has $12m cap hit, and he is key to that offense, a real leader, and they have no replacement for him (and have many other positions to fill this year). He is on the downside of his career but if he can stay healthy in that offense he should be good for another 50 or so receptions. At 7th with 1,089 even 50 more would get him to 1,139 and 4th or 3rd depending on Larry F.
Oh yea Larry F is another, but again is healthy and looks like both team and player planning on 2017 season.
Gronk??? but at current 7 years that is a short career issue (if he was done now, his case would be stronger if he makes 2010 all decade team). He does not strike me as the kind of person who would leave the game unless his health was so serious he could not even manage to get on the field, so I am thinking he has a few years left, perhaps more if and when Bill B cuts him lose, if he can stand up some team would sign him.
2022 is currently looking like a year for clearing up the backlog from 2018-21. Ware has a good shot but is not a slam dunk to be first ballot. Jared Allen and Ware might split the vote that year.
Allen 4/5/DPOY, 11th career sacks (136 in 187 games)
Ware 4(3)/9, SB, all decade 2000s, 8th career sacks (138.5 in 178 games)
Five years is a long time but given the PFHOFers consideration of all decade team members, if Jason Taylor is a first ballot then so should Ware. I understand with Allen on the ballot first in 2021 a split vote is always possible in 2022, but Ware has a SB and all decade team over Allen. Also appears that 2018-2020 does not bring much in the way of strong candidates from the pass rushing LB/DE position so strongly favored by the voters in recent years, leaving the prospects for both Allen and Ware to be very good.
The jury may still be out on whether Jared Allen makes the all10s decade team or not. His career straddles the 00s and 10s, and at times they have pushed a player into a decade that doesn’t quite fit them (Joe Fortunato for the all-50s, Mel Blount for the all-80s). J.J. Watt, Justin Smith, and Cameron Wake are likely the best options from the 10s, and I could see Allen being the foirth.
Which brings up an interesting question. Who’s ahead so far for all-10s team consideration? Some thoughts, with honors for non-skill position folks:
C: Nick Mangold (4/7), Travis Frederick (3/3). Possible also for Ryan Kalil (2/5) and Maurkice Pouncey (2/5).
G: Marshal Yanda (5/6), Jahri Evans (4/6), Zack Martin (3/3), Logan Mankins (2/7). Doubtful now for folks like Mike Iupati (1/4).
OT: JoeThomas (7/10), Jason Peters (4/9), Tyron Smith (4/4). The fourth slot might go to someone like Joe Staley (1/5) or Jake Long (1/4).
TE: Probably Rob Gronkowski and Jason Witten, though Jimmy Graham or even Tony Gonzalez might get considered.
WR: Not the easiest to guess. Likely candidates include Antonio Brown, Julio Jones, Calvin Johnson, Brandon Marshall, Larry Fitzgerald, and Andre Johnson.
QB: Aaron Rodgers probably. The second could be anyone from Peyton Manning to Tom Brady to Russell Wilson.
RB: Adrian Peterson, with three other likely folks being Marshawn Lynch, Jamaal Charles, and Arian Foster, perhaps even Steven Jackson or Frank Gore might get some consideration.
FB: Vonta Leach 3/3), Mike Tolbert (2/3).
DE: J.J. Watt (4/4), Cameron Wake (3/5), Justin Smith (3/5), Jared Allen (4/5).
DT: Ndamukong Suh (4/5), Haloti Ngata (3/5), Geno Atkins (3/5), Aaron Donald (3/3). Perhaps Gerald McCoy (1/5) or Vince Wilfork (1/5) might get a brief look.
LB: Patrick Willis (6/7), Von Miller (5/5), Luke Kuechly (4/4), Navorro Bowman (4/3), Khalil Mack (2/5), and Elvis Dumervil (2/5) look most likely. There’s always Terrell Suggs (1/6), Clay Mathews III (1/6), and Robert Mathis (1/5) on the periphery.
CB: Darrell Revis (5/7), Richard Sherman (4/4), and Patrick Peterson (3/6) look likely. The fourth could be Chris Harris (2/3) or Aqib Talib (1/4).
S: Eric Berry (3/5), Eric Weddle (4/4), and Earl Thomas (3/5) look likely. The fourth could be Kan Chancellor (0/4) or even Troy Polamalu (2/3 in the decade, 4/7 overall).
PK: most likely Justin Tucker (2/2) and Steven Gostkowski (24).
P: most likely Johnny Hekker (4/3) and Andy Lee (3/3).
KR: who knows? Could be Devin Hester, Cordarelle Patterson, Darren Sproles, or Jacoby Jones.
ST: Matthew Slater (4/6).
Could be wrong, and we have three more years to add on which could change things. But that’s my guess so far. Comments welcome and encouraged.
The fourth OT could also be Ryan Clady (2/4).
Great job Bachslunch! Interesting to see how many slots appear to still be open “competition” with 3 more seasons of all pro teams 2017-2019 likely needed to decide several of them.
Got some good feedback on my preliminary all 10s list at the pfraforum website.
Add Drew Brees to the possible QBs list, Carl Nicks (3/2) to the guards maybes, change Khalil Mack’s honors to 2/2. Also LeSean McCoy or Matt Forte might be added to the RB possibilities
Any one else think the class of 2023 could be loaded (retire after 2017 season)? Potentially could include Adrian Peterson? Jason Witten? Drew Brees? Dwight Freeney? Julius Peppers? Antonio Gates? Larry Fitzgerald? Darelle Revis? Even if only 1/2 of those that would be pretty impressive
Jason just signed a 4 year extension . I see him playing another 3. But, agreed. It would be an impressive class. I fear for Zach Thomas. He has yet to make the semi finalist and big names coming on the 2018-2021 ballots. He still has until the 2030s to get in on Modern Era Ballot, so he has plenty of time. And if you do the math, it’ll get brighter in 3-4 years. Players like Joe Jacoby, Steve Atwater, Roger Craig, Chris Hinton, Clay Matthews, and Karl Mecklenburg, will be off the ballot and/or inducted. I think the ones who have a shot at induction before eligibility is up are the first 2. They have all been named Semis recently. And of course inductees will free up even more slots.
I doubt Witten will play more than 1-2 years, but even if all of these are spread over the next 1-3 years it sets up some pretty good classes 5 years later. With 2020 as the only year I see a weak first ballot class in the next several years, I agree that many of the recent finalists and semi-finalists, including names you list and others to soon join the ballot, are going to find very hard to advance to election.
I’ll be brief and honest I respectfully disagree with Bach Lunch’s opinion on Jim Marshall however I do agree on joey browner
OK guys, he’s supposedly retiring–so is Tony Romo a Hall of Famer? Here’s our (well, my) take on him: https://www.zoneblitz.com/2017/04/04/tony-romo-hall-famer/