WR Randy Moss and LBs Ray Lewis and Brian Urlacher are three of the six first-year eligible candidates among 27 semifinalists for the Pro Football Hall of Fame’s class of 2018.
DB Ronde Barber, G Steve Hutchinson and DL Richard Seymour also made the semifinalist list in their first tries. S LeRoy Butler, DEs Leslie O’Neal and Simeon Rice, and CB Everson Walls also are first-time semifinalists, though they have been eligible candidates in the past.
The 2018 semifinalist list includes 12 offensive players, 13 defensive players and two coaches. The coaches, Don Coryell and Jimmy Johnson, have a combined 15 appearances on the semifinalist list. Johnson won two Super Bowls in five years with Dallas and closed his career with four years in Miami, a relatively short career compared with most Hall of Fame coaches.
Coryell coached for 14 years, making his mark especially with San Diego in the late 1970s and early 1980s, leading teams to great regular seasons but faltering in the playoffs.
The other 15 semifinalists include:
S Steve Atwater
T Tony Boselli
WR Isaac Bruce
RB Roger Craig
S Brian Dawkins
G Alan Faneca
WR Torry Holt
T Joe Jacoby
RB Edgerrin James
CB Ty Law
S John Lynch
C Kevin Mawae
LB Karl Mecklenburg
WR Terrell Owens
WR Hines Ward
This group was reduced from an initial group of 108 nominees. The 27 will be narrowed down to 15 modern-era finalists in January. Those 15 players, along with senior candidates Robert Brazile and Jerry Kramer and contributor candidate GM Bobby Beathard, will be voted on by the Hall of Fame’s Selection Committee on Feb. 3, 2018 in Minneapolis, on the day before the Super Bowl.
Between four and eight candidates will be enshrined in the Hall in Canton, Ohio next August.
My initial reaction is that there aren’t many surprising on this list. It will be interesting to see what voters do with the star WRs, multi-time candidate Owens and first-timer Moss. My guess is that no other WR gets in until these two do, whether that’s both getting in this year or not. Lewis is a no-brainer. And there remain a bunch of safeties who belong in the Hall, who, for whatever reason, have not been able to convince voters of their deservedness. I think Dawkins or Atwater should go in first, but any number warrant consideration.
Walls is biggest surprise – not that he doesn’t belong in the discussion but that he’s risen to this level out of nowhere. So, what are your thoughts?
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It’s good to see three new names on the DL make a breakthrough. Seymour is a first time eligible, but O’Neal was one of the names I had highlighted previously on these boards that had been snubbed inexplicably on the prelims list. In fact both O’Neal and Simeon Rice (over 250 sacks between them) were omitted from the 2015 prelims list. And now they’re two of the three DL to be named semi-finalists just three years later.
27 names so there must’ve been a three-way tie for that 25th and final spot. Darren Woodson, Mike Kenn and Chris Hinton were semi-finalists last year that missed out this time. Zach Thomas’ chances were hurt again with the addition of Lewis and Urlacher. His day will come soon. On the OL we should eventually see Steve Wisniewski and Richmond Webb in the Top 25 once Boselli, Faneca, Hutchinson and Mawae get elected. The DB backlog is brutal and it will take over a decade to get through it once you look ahead to the first-time eligible names between 2019-22.
RB: Edge James and Roger Craig
WR: Moss, TO, Bruce, Holt and Ward
OL: Boselli, Mawae, Faneca, Jacoby and Hutchinson
12 offensive players with Craig/Jacoby in their final year. I think there’ll be one OL with either Moss or TO this time.
DL: Seymour, O’Neal and Rice
LB: Lewis, Urlacher and Mecklenburg.
DB: Atwater, Dawkins, Lynch, Law, Barber, Butler and Walls
13 defensive players including four first-time eligibles. Lewis is the one slam dunk in this Class. At least one DB should get elected.
HC: Johnson and Coryell
I’d like to see head coaches added to the Contributors. It would certainly boost their chances of election if both Johnson and Coryell were compared with owners and GMs instead of elite players.
Was looking at the semifinalist list. Have to admit I’m disappointed not to see Mike Kenn (who has only one eligible year left now), Sterling Sharpe, Darren Woodson (who fortunately does have a lot of eligibility left), and Zach Thomas (ditto) left off. Kenn’s case was always borderline, though I think he has every bit as good an argument as Joe Jacoby — his not making the semifinals probably means the end of his regular candidacy chances.
Everson Walls (3/4/none) was a surprise to see. My guess is that he got a few votes because it’s his last regularly eligible year and he has a fair number of lifetime interceptions. Every source I’ve encountered that talks about his quality of play, however, suggests that he wasn’t an especially impressive player — basically, the sort of cornerback who has a fair number of interceptions because he got thrown on a lot and wasn’t the best in coverage. I don’t think he belongs in at all. Will be very surprised if he advances further.
Leslie O’Neal (0/6/none) is borderline for me, though if you like sacks, I guess he deserves some kind of consideration. Maybe not when the competition is this fierce, though. That goes for Simeon Rice (2/3/none) as well. it’s pretty obvious that these two made the cut because they have the most lifetime sacks of any eligible player not in the HoF. I don’t think their candidacies will go anywhere.
Boknows34, agreed that it would be good to see head coaches added to the Contributor category. With this many good player candidates, they just clog up the pool, and unlike players, they never become Seniors.
Bachslunch: I have a question that has bugged me for a while you may know the answer to. While I think you are correct that coaches no longer become seniors, but that can’t always have been the case. If memory serves, both Hank Stram and George Allen were elected as senior nominees. I keep wondering why Coryell’s candidacy hasn’t gone that route?
You’re right about Allen and Stram, and that was also true of John Madden. No idea when that change occurred.
Overall a pretty good list, as usual a few surprising new additions, curious omissions, and removals. Will be interesting to see how far Walls, Craig and Jacoby get as they run out of modern candidate eligibility. In the past voters would often advance these into the final 15 so at least give them a chance to be debated among the full committee, not sure given the depth of quality of the modern candidates there will be room for them. But you never know.
I think Darren Woodson, Mike Kenn, Chris Hinton, and Zach Thomas were hurt by the number of other players at their positions. As voters start to address the S, OL, and LB positions, I would expect to see all three back in the semi-finalist list soon.
Here is my prediction for the final 15:
Ronde Barber
Tony Boselli
Isaac Bruce
Brian Dawkins
Alan Faneca
Edgerrin James
Joe Jacoby
Jimmy Johnson
Ty Law
Ray Lewis
John Lynch
Kevin Mawae
Randy Moss
Terrell Owens
Brian Urlacker
’
Great list paul could not agree more with that and a question for bachs why the nitpicking on everson walls
i’m not sure I would have picked Walls over Z. Thomas, Webb, Kenn or Sharpe. But trying to get to the final 15 will be tough for sure. Many good choices. I hope Craig, Jacoby and Mecklinburg get some serious consideration although all of them would be lucky just to get to the next stage.
Darrelle Revis just signed with the Chiefs. If he plays one game it’ll push back his eligibility to 2023 as you all know. Him and Dwight Freeney could make for a stacked defensive Finalist class ballot by then.
Im sold on thomas webb kenn or sharpe
My final 15 List
1. Ray Lewis
2. Tony Boselli
3. Randy Moss
4. Terrell Owens
5. Brian Dawkins
6. Joe Jacoby
7. Ty Law
8. John Lynch
9. Don Coryall
10. Brian Urlacher
11. Roger Craig
12. Isaac Bruce
13. Keven Mawae
14. Alan Faneca
15. Steve Hutchinson
I’ve left out some Future Hall of Famers for sure. I could see others picking James over Craig and Holt over Bruce
1/3 of your Finalist list is O-linemen. I could see that happening. Also, happy to see Roger Craig in yours.
My finalists
Ronde Barber
Tony Boselli
Don Coryell
Roger Craig
Brian Dawkins
Alan Faneca
Steve Hutchinson
Joe Jacoby
Ty Law
Ray Lewis
John Lynch
Kevin Mawae
Randy Moss
Terrell Owens
Brian Urlacher
With it appearing that Eli Manning is at the end of his career, 5 years later when first eligible he will make a very interesting debate over his PFHOF qualifications. His 0/4 profile and career numbers are mixed (top 10 in TDs, yards, attempts and completions; 39th in passing rating, 7 really good seasons/out of 14 statistically ), but those two SB wins and 2 SB MVP are going to carry some significant weight with the voters. Not saying he is a first ballot selection, but I think he will get in within 3-5 years. Of course the unknown is how many of his fellow era QBs (Brady,Ben, Brees, Rodgers,Rivers?) also on the ballot during that period?? Clearly Brady would be automatic 1st ballot (and looks like he may play a few more years), Brees to me would seem to have the edge over a face to face with Eli, but it would be closer between Eli and Ben). Guessing Rodgers would also have an advantage, but likely to be the last among those I listed to retire and then show up on the ballot. Eli may have a few years window, certainly before Rodgers is on the ballot, and maybe before Ben and Brees even if they each only play 1-2 more years.
why are you nitpicking on his profile
Not nitpicking just pointing out there are some issues that could be debated especially if some of the other QBs from his era are also on the ballot at the same time. Argument could be made that he is not first ballot deserving. He is definitely getting inay just take a few years
2023-2030 election years will be very interesting with the several QBs on those ballots
My guess is that Eli plays another two years as a bridge QB for the Jaguars. He’s a HOFer but a lot will depend on who else is on the ballot as to how soon he’s elected.
Brady, Brees and Rodgers are of course slam dunk 1st ballot names. If Eli finds himself on the same ballot as Brady and Brees it should delay his election by a year or so, though it would be fun to see Brady and Eli in the same HOF Class. Likewise for any combo of Eli, Big Ben and Rivers from the 2004 draft.
Brees will break the career yardage record next season, while Brady looks to have the momentum to get there first for Peyton’s career TD mark. Peyton of course will be part of the 2021 Class with the guy that pipped him for the Heisman, Charles Woodson.
Wouldn’t it be something if Cousins moved on from the Redskins and they signed Manning and then Manning could torture the Giants twice a year for the next three or four seasons. That will probably never happen because the Redskins always screw things up anyways these days. The best landing spots for Manning include Jaguars, Cardinals and Broncos.
I also think he will eventually make the HOF but probably not right away depending on the year he retires and who may still be on the ballot.
Eli had pretty good seasons last 3 seasons including in the back to back 6-10 years, so the question potential suitors have to ask (assuming Eli is released in the off season) is whether his play this year is an outlier and reflective of broader problems with NYG offense, including WR injuries, or have his skills also declined. With QBs in the their mid 30s often the decline can often come fast and unexpected, not every QB is Brady. I am just not the convinced that simply by dropping him on Denver or Jacksonville next year gets them over the hill and we see Eli put up high quality numbers again.
Frank Gore yesterday just passed Jerome Bettis and LaDanian Tomlinson and is now 5th in career rushing yards. And he’s only 104 yards behind no. 4 Curtis Martin. Am thinking he’s looking more and more likely to be a HoFer.
Also, Adrian Peterson has cemented a HoF bust by passing the 12,000 mark a couple weeks ago (currently 12th all time).
Adrian with a profile of 5/7/10s? with league MVP, 2nd most rushing yards in a season, 3 rushing titles, and most rushing yards in a game is a first ballot lock. It’s a shame he got hurt a lot. He’d have easily 14k yards. I remember him coming out of college as the next big thing and he has lived up to it. Also Larry Fitzgerald passed Issac Bruce for 4th most receiving yards. He signed a 1 year extension too, so he is under contract throught the 2019 season. If he continues this rate, he’ll be the only guy not named Jerry Rice with 16,000 receiving yards. Impressive given he never had a Joe Montana nor a Steve Young. Yes he had Kurt Warner, but actually makes up of only 35% of his career TDs. It shows you his production came from a good QB in Carson Palmer and then a bunch of avg to below avg QBs. I think Fitz is on his way to first ballot enshrinement.
Lary Fitzgerals and Adrian Peterson are locks for the HOF although they could not be more different in how they have conducted their personel lives. I have liked Frank Gore as a hall of famer for awhile. Although I know there are some who think he is closer to the Hall of very good like Steven Jackson, Fred Taylor or Corey Dillon.
Frank Gore will make for an interesting debate with a profile of 0/5, no rushing titles, limited playoff success, no post season awards, one great season (1695 yards rushing), too very good seasons (1211y, 1214y) in a 13 year career to date, but 5th in career rushing makes a case for election. Could very well make the PFHOF but is not going to be an easy or short path to election.
Speaking of active players, I think Antonio Brown could make a case for first ballot. The rate he is playing may be due to the era he is playing in. But, he will make 1st team All Pro this year. That’ll put his resume at 4/6/10s if he makes the Pro Bowl as well, which he will. He could in fact get to 6/10/10s with 1,400+ receptions, 16,000+ yards, and 100+ TDs when it’s all said and done. Julio Jones is also another future HOF contender at the WR position. He has the best receiving yards per game avg. of all time. His resume will be around 5/9/10s or better. One other name is AJ Green. He is definitely on pace. Only WR to make the Pro Bowl in their first 6 seasons. He might extend that this year too. Demaryius Thomas is a name to keep an eye on. He could be the Boldin of this era. Not saying they have similar playing styles. They are both on the “back burner”. Thomas could accumulate a ton of stats like Boldin did and have a compelling case. I think Boldin with a 0/3/00s has a long wait. Won’t surprise me if he gets in on Senior Nominee. Too many big names coming up in the 2020s and 2030s.
I’d also add Julio Jones to the “watch list” for top recent WRs.
Oops, you did. My bad.
Oops, Boldin has a resume of 0/3/none not 00s.
spot on takes brad
Frank Gore just passed Curtis Martin for 8th most yards from scrimmage. The others ahead of him were all inducted first ballot. Of course that does not mean Frank Gore will be first ballot. Those others have league MVPs, SB MVPs, 1st Team All Pros, rushing yards, etc. It simply means he is in elite company. It will be interesting if he plays 1 more season. It would of course help his chances because his stats would improve and then 5 more big names would be inducted ; and others might be off anyway due to how many years of eligibility they have left. If he does come back one more year, he could pass Marcus Allen and Barry Sanders on the career YFS list. That would put him 6th all time. I know we talk Gore a lot here and some think of him as a HOFer and others don’t. But, he should make it given where he places in rushing yards and scrimmage yards. His TD total is pretty good as well(94 total, 23rd most, 26th if you go by players since some have tied others). A big milestone might happen end of the season as well. He could in fact pass Curtis Martin for 4th most rushing yards. He needs 137 yards and 138 yards the final 2 games. A big stretch. That makes me think, if he continues next year, could he put himself in the HOF sooner rather than later being 4th all time in rushing yards? We shall see.
Oh I think Gore will get in, but look at EJames and his wait. Gore will also retire and appear on the ballot with many other top QBs and WRs from his era (also a few RBs), so I can easily see a 5-10 wait once eligible, perhaps even longer.
excellent take paul
I completely agree Paul. No doubt Gore’s wait will be long, but who would have thought he’d amass all this yardage? Not me. I thought he was going to retire 2-3 years ago and just be 1 of many with less than 12,000 yards rushing and probably would never make the HOF.
Id have to agree with brad about gore will he have a terrell davis wait most likley should be interesting
And lets remember even though Davis had a much shorter career then Gore (and thus not comparable in terms of career yards), Davis did have 2 SBs, 4 all pro, SB MVP, MVP and All Decade-none of which Gore has-although I suppose he has shot at 2010s all decade team. So I am not so sure Davis’ experience on the ballot is that good of a comparison. I think Gore has had a remarkable career and played long enough (with nine 1,000 yrd seasons) to be worthy of consideration and election, just that the lack of post season awards is really going to delay his election. I think his wait could be 10 years +
agreed
Devin Hester just announced his retirement. Many people on Facebook posts think he is a sure shot HOFer. Some say he is a 1st or 2nd ballot HOFer. I try to educate them and saying that voters will pick an every down player over a special teamer. But, they keep saying “he is the best at his position”. They don’t understand what HOF voters prioritize. Morten Andersen is the exception, as are kickers in general. They can dictate the winner of games more than returners. Ray Guy had the AP/PB/ADT accolades to put him in. Hester was a 4x Pro Bowler and 3x First team all Pro. He did make the 2000’s ADT but still that doesn’t seem like enough to get in Modern Era Ballot. Senior Nominee is his best bet and that will be tough as well since there are easily 25+ worthy players not in. I am young, but people of my generation think oddly. They don’t understand that special teams players are not viewed like every other position is.
i concur brad but
cases are different this was forgotten in my earlier post
robert I am not sure if cases are different, Hester was not the first, nor is he the only great KR/PR that the league has seen, for example Brian Mitchell, Eric Metcalf, Josh Cribs, Mel Gray, Billy Whiteshoes Johnson (NFL 75th anniversary team), Desmond Howard, Dante Hall, just to name a few and none of them have ever come close to election. Hester may hold the combined KR/PR career TD record but many other players hold other KR and PR records, all decade teams, all pro selection, and one is a SB MVP. Over the last 50+ years the many people who have served as PFHOF voters have to date only elected 2 pure kickers and only 1 pure punter, I just do not see a KR/PR or special team player getting elected anytime soon and perhaps in the next few decades only 1 or 2 more kickers. And frankly I do not blame the PFHOF voters as if I was one looking at a final 15, 10 and 5 names for election filled with accomplished regular full time players with career records, more SBs, more All pro, all decade team, MVP, OPOY, DPOY, I would not give more consideration for a KR/PR (and like the history of PHOF voting I would have same challenge with K and Ps).
that is a very true and excellent point
RIP Tommy Nobis. I hope he gets in the HOF in the future, but it’s a shame he won’t get to see it.
would be interested in seeing where paul or bachs rank nobis in lbs not in the hall of fame
would be interested in seeing where paul or bachs rank nobis in lbs not in the hall of fame
My PFHOF LBs not in would be as following (in this order):
LB – Chuck Howley 5/6/60’s-70’s
LB- Randy Gradishar 5/7 (finalist, 2015)
LB – Tommy Nobis 1/5/60’s-70’s (finalist 2012, 2014)
LB – Maxie Baughan 2/9/60’s (finalist 2012, 2014)
LB- Mike Curtis 2/4/60s-70s (finalist 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015)
Paul we have the same exact rankings for lbs just out of curiosity who would be 6-10 bergey russell any one else
I’ve posted this elsewhere here, but my preference for Senior eligible LBs is to elect a number of OLBs given how heavily MLBs are represented in the HoF from this time. My preference:
Howley
Baughan
Brazile
Gradishar
Fortunato
Forester
Grantham
Bergey
Stratton
Nobis
Jordan
I’ve got Curtis, Robertson, and Russell off my list.
Thanks for the feedback Bach’s who moves up if Brazile gets elected. By the way thanks for the feedback Bach’s and Paul
After watching Gronk once again shred defensive secondaries and blow up linebackers with his blocking, I believe if he never played another down he is a hall of famer. He is the best TE i’ve ever witnessed and that includes Tony Gonzalez. I’m also not a Patriots fan but I believe he, Brady are going in immediately after their wait period is up.
Agreed about Gronk, and likely going to add at least another all pro selection this season and likely all decade team of 2010s. If nothing is added in 2018-2019 he would still have profile of 5/5/2010s and 2 SBs. At an 8 year career currently would be best to pad his career numbers with a few more years or risk a longer wait with the short career (aka T Davis situation). But if he stays healthy could end up in top 10 career receptions and TDs. I think he will also benefit from PFHOF voters finally playing serious attention to the TE position from recent era as Gonzalez, Witten and Gates all likely elected before Gronk appears on the ballot. Voters can not simply ignore the importance and contributions TEs now have in offenses post 2000.
Sunday was the 100th regular season game of Gronk’s career and it’s remarkable that only Gates and Gonzalez have more TD catches among TEs. Gronkowski has 75 TDs from only 469 career receptions. More TDs than Newsome (47), Sharpe (62) and Witten (68), despite Witten lying 4th in career receptions (1,145), while Gronk is currently tied for 167th, nearly 700 receptions behind Witten.
His 15.2 career ypc also really stands out. That’s less than one yard behind Julio Jones (15.4) and Calvin Johnson (15.9) and ahead of AJ Green and Antonio Brown.
Gronk is also a throwback to the old TE’s that had to block as well. Sharpe and Winslow almost never had to block and Gonzalez actually was a poor blocker. His YPC is super impressive not just for a TE but for any receiver. It will be real interesting if he can stay healthy for two or three more years.
The 2018 Pro Bowl rosters just came out. Notables who are either HOFers for sure or have a good shot in future: QB: Tom Brady (13th), Drew Brees (11th) Philip Rivers (7th), Ben Roethlisberger (6th),Russell Wilson (4th). WR: Larry Fitzgerald(11th), AJ Green (7th),Antonio Brown (6th), Julio Jones (5th). Others on offense: C Maurkice Pouncey (6th), LeSean McCoy (6th), Rob Gronkowski
(5th). Here is the full list. Didn’t feel like doing defense and special teams. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000895772/article/nfl-announces-2018-pro-bowl-rosters
Other folks:
Terrell Suggs, Patrick Peterson (7)
Geno Atkins, Von Miller, Gerald McCoy, Earl Thomas (6)
Eric Weddle, Aqib Talib, Tyron Smith, Like Kuechley (5)
Travis Frederick, Zack Martin, Aaron Donald, Bobby Wagner (4)
Khalil Mack (3)
Players on these lists who jump out at me (making PB this year advanced their potential PFHOF creds) would be Pouncey, Suggs, Atkins and Peterson. Not saying others have possibility (some are already locks) for PFHPF or that these four are locks, but appear to be improving their cases. I look at 6 Probowls as a minimum to be in the PFHOF discussion (along with 2+ All Pro teams), again not a guarantee but getting their name in the discussion. And I know probowl selections are often solely a popularity contest and with so many players declining we have seen an inflation in number of players selected, but still has some value. Plus looking at some players with 2/6 profiles (including some with all decade team selections) not even in top 25, shows that even starting with that basic “qualification” assures nothing in terms of consideration by the voters, but you have to start somewhere with a basic measure.
that makes sense paul happy holidays
Jason Witten got emotional talking about the Cowboys not playing in the playoffs this year. Could it be him saying he will retire? Who knows. But, if he does retied, his eligibility will be in 2023 as we all know. Him, possibly Freeney, and Revis will all be locks for Semifinalists in 2023. I’d guess and say Witten and Revis make the Finalists then, but safe bet would be Witten due to a longer career. Anyway, it will make the ballot insanely deep if they do retire. I hope Revis can play another 1-2 seasons and move his resume to 2024 or 2025. Then his chances for a quick induction would increase.
Looking at LeSean McCoy, I think he has a real shot at the HOF. This era is not loaded in RBs like in the 80s, 90s, and even the 00s. His 2/6/10s(likely) resume isn’t staggering, but trumps most of the RBs who have at least 10k rushing yards (who aren’t in the HOF), which he just got to last week.Frank Gore, who seems like a lock for eventual enshrinement, has a resume of 0/5/none. LeSean not only has more APs , PBs, and perhaps an All Decade Team Selection, he also has a rushing title and a great year in 2011 with 20 total TDs. I honestly could see LeSean playing another 3-4 seasons and get to around or past 13k rushing yards, which would put him in Frank Gore territory. If McCoy is selected to one more PB I consider him a lock for HOF. It’s going to be one interesting debate for RBs in this era of football.
LeSean McCoy reached 10,000 rushing yards on his 2,145th career carry.
The only players in NFL history to reach 10,000 rushing yards in fewer carries were Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, Adrian Peterson and O.J. Simpson.
Of the 30 RBs with at least 10,000 rushing yards, McCoy’s career 4.64 ypc is ranked 6th:
Brown 5.22
Sanders 4.99
Peterson 4.77
Barber 4.71
Simpson 4.67
McCoy 4.64
Fred Taylor (4.62) is the only other RB in the Top 30 with a ypc over 4.50.
James Harrison was just signed by the Patriots. I expect a minimal impact. How do you all, feel about his HOF chances?
I see similarities between Harrison and Haley, honestly. Haley has the rings advantage, but the profiles/honors are similar.
That is a good Comp Corey. I think for James it could be a long wait or a vet selection if it is still done that way 25 years from now. Harrison has been a great playoff performer. It will be interesting to see if he has anything left in the tank.
what will be the most interesting storylines for the hof to determine the finalists
It sounds like we will be getting the finalists list next week. I’d love to see everyone’s favorites. Here are mine (which is a hybrid between who I would personally vote for and a prediction of what the selectors will do):
Boselli
Bruce
Dawkins
Faneca
Holt
Jacoby
Law
Lewis
Lynch
Mawae
Mecklenberg
Moss
Owens
Seymour
Urlacher
If this is accurate, then the finalists would break down into four almost equal position groupings:
OL (Boselli, Faneca, Jacoby, Mawae)
WR (Bruce, Holt, Moss, Owens)
DB (Dawkins, Law, Lynch)
DL/LB (Lewis, Mecklenberg, Seymour, Urlacher)
While certainly not a given, I could easily see one candidate for each of the above four categories and then a wild card making up the final inductees. Something like: Faneca, Moss, Dawkins, Lewis, and Jacoby (wild card for being in his last year of eligibility). For me, this would be a great class, although it is touch to leave out Law and Boselli. Thoughts?
Ok Justin Here are mine : Boselli Bruce Dawkins Faneca Hutchinson Jacoby Law Lewis Lynch Mawae Moss O Neal Owens Seymour Urlacher
Robert Ewing: great list. I picked Holt over Hutchinson only because I thought the selectors would be reluctant to advance five OL. That said, I could be biased because Holt is a personal favorite. Hutchinson is a definite future hall of famer, but guards have been known to take a few years to gain traction. Regarding O’Neal, I have been pushing him for years and feel he has been greatly under appreciated. However, my gut tells me that playing in SD coupled with Mecklenburg waiting longer means the advantage goes to Big Karl. Plus, no Broncos defensive player has been elected to the hall even though the Broncos are one of the most successful franchises in the league. However, both are worthy to me.
Justin: I can understand Your prefrence to holt and i can also understand your take on o neal and big karl
My guess would be:
James
Moss
Owens
Bruce
Boselli
Mawae
Faneca
Jacoby
Lewis
Urlacher
Dawkins
Lynch
Law
Barber
Coryell
Of the candidates I didn’t advance, I would say that Ward, Rice, O’Neal, Walls and Butler have the lowest chances of being finalists. Craig and Mecklenburg may get a “end of candidacy” bump, but it’s hard for me to see either of them moving on. Hutchinson, Atwater and Holt are definite Hall of Famers in my book, but they suffer from a logjam at their positions. The two hardest to leave off were Saymour and Johnson. That said, I could easily see them advancing in place of Barber/Coryell.
what you said about the logjams is true and a great opinion although i dont understand the fascination with james
James is a really tough case. His first two years (pre-injury) he was one of the most dynamic backs ever. The equal, if not superior, to Faulk. His post injury career was still very, very good. He was basically Curtis Martin with a more typical end of career (Martin’s last years were truly amazing—leading the league in rushing at 31—and likely got him into the HOF). How to judge James becomes difficult. I think he falls just short but I recognize that is only because he had a devastating injury, and even then he came back to be a very, very good NFL back.
I don’t get the preference for Coryell. He has almost half the wins and a much worse winning percentage than Marty Schottenheimer, who no one is pushing for the hall of fame. I get that Coryell created some amazing passing attacks, but so did Mike Martz (who incidentally has an even better winning percentage than Schottenheimer).
Justin i agree with you on don coryell whats your thoughts on jimmy johnson
Robert Ewing: As a Redskins fan, I am admittedly biased regarding Jimmy Johnson. I understand the argument for (multiple super bowls (some give him credit for the cowboys ’95 championship too), playoffs 6 out of his last 7 years, revolutionizing the draft process, etc.).
But for me this fails to place his accomplishments in historical context. First, one has to admit that admitting Jimmy Johnson unquestionably lowers the bar for coaching HOFers. Not saying that this is a positive or negative. Just a fact. If he were admitted, Johnson would have coached the second fewest seasons of any HOF coach: 9 (only Guy Chamberlin’s 6 would be less, but Chamberlin had a .784 winning percentage and last coached in 1927). Johnson would also have the third lowest winning percentage: .556 (only Sid Gillman’s .552 and Weeb Ewbank’s .502 would be worse). Notably, Gillman’s winning percentage is almost equal to Johnson but he coached twice as long (18 years). Ewbank’s winning percentage is admittedly poor, but he also was the winning coach in the two most famous and most important football games of all time: 1958 Championship and Super Bowl III.
Some people say that you have to throw out Johnson’s first two years because he took over an awful Cowboys team. I respond with why? Certainly Johnson’s winning percentage increases (dramatically), but other coaches took over much worse situations. Dungy took over the pathetic Bucs and still ended up with a better winning percentage in Tampa (.563) than Johnson did in his career (.556) or in his Dallas years (.550). It isn’t like Johnson created a franchise from scratch like Brown, Shula, Landy, Stram or Halas. He also didn’t turned around a franchise that had never won before like Noll or hadn’t won in decades like Lombardi, Levy, Walsh, or Parcells (multiple times). Yet, all of those coaches ended up with better winning percentages (in most cases MUCH better winning percentages) than Johnson. The Cowboys had been in the playoffs four years before Johnson arrived, which was the end of an unprecedented run of success. Therefore, the winning tradition was there (even if the players were not).
Let’s also not forget that Johnson had a HOF QB ever year of his career! It isn’t like he won with other teams retreads or a rotating cast at the most important position on the field like Gibbs or Allen (who again both have much better winning percentages than Johnson).
Finally, and this is the clincher for me, Johnson never had the inevitable “end of career” slump that nearly all great coaches had. If he had stuck it out without Marino (or come back with another team), would he have maintained his level of success? We’ll never know, but I kind of doubt it. Johnson walked away when times got difficult (whether that was because of Jones in Dallas or the loss of Marino in Miami). Not saying that this is some sort of character flaw, but I am saying that this skews his career winning percentage which was already lacking.
In the end, the best comparison for Johnson is Buddy Parker. He too won two championships (with the ’52 and ’53 Lions). He too had his team with a third championship after he departed (’57 Lions). He too went to another franchise and had moderate success (pre-Noll Pittsburgh, where he had three winning seasons–remarkable for the pre-Noll era). That said, even in this comparison Johnson falls short. Parker coached 15 years and had a .581 winning percentage compared to Johnson’s 9 years / .556 winning percentage.
To me, Parker and Schottenheimer are the two coaches I would push for the HOF, not Coryell and Johnson.
And I agree with what you said
Buddy Parker is definitely long overdue, but I’m a little less sure about Schottenheimer. Yes, he was an outstanding regular season coach, but he often seemed like he got outcoached in the playoffs. Granted, he has been on the receiving end of some bad luck that it out of his control (the Drive, the Fumble, Lin Elliott missing 3 field goals), but I think that he’s been passed over far because he lacks the “innovator” label that Coryell has had attached to him. For coaches that have no Super Bowl appearances. you need some sort of specific anecdotal evidence that suggests you made a big difference to the game despite a lack of championships. Accurate/overstated or not, Coryell has that and Schottenheimer doesn’t. This is also coming from a Chiefs fan who loved having him as my team’s coach.
One coach who I also think deserves more consideration is Dick Vermeil. He turned around 3 franchises very quickly, taking 1 to a Super Bowl win (Rams). one to a Super Bowl appearance (Eagles), and one to the top of the regular season standings (Chiefs). He also did so with 3 previously unknown/mediocre QB’s in Ron Jaworski, Kurt Warner and Trent Green. He didn’t have a long career, and doesn’t have the longevity stats that most HOF coaches have, but I think he has an extremely impressive resume, and should be bordering on the semi-finalist list.
I know people posted about a certain someone’s HOF chances. And that would be James Harrison. He had 2 sacks today in his first game with Patriots. I know 3 for the season is not note worthy; but if the Patriots shall win the SB this year(3 out of 4 for 2nd time in Tom Brady era. Crazy to think) and he continues his pass rushing success, he will be kind of like the Charles Haley of his era(But with 2 less rings). The one thing that has his resume in a intriguing position is his DPOY, which Haley never had. He is 39 and will be 40 in May. It will be interesting to see if he comes back for another season. While it’s a very small sample size, he may seem to have found the defense he strives in. Steelers are trying to work in younger players, but Patriots for years have brought in veterans in past and have won titles/been to SBs(Corey Dillon, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Darrelle Revis to name a few).
Frank Gore in the last game of the 2017 season amassed his 14,000th rushing yard, only the 5th to do so. Also he just got a new record: Only player to have 12 straight seasons of 1,200 yards from scrimmage. I know some people on this thread never really viewed him as a HOFer, including myself(If we are talking just his 49er days), but these stats are incredibly hard to achieve. If he retired after his 49er days, he would be in the mix with Corey Dillon, Jamal Lewis, Warrick Dunn, Steven Jackson, Tiki Barber, Ricky Watters, Ottis Anderson, Fred Taylor, etc. I get that he never had a rushing title nor was 1st team All Pro. But his career has been defined by how durable he was(or still is). I seriously doubt we will see someone achieve 14,000 yards of rushing anytime soon(Maybe ever. I thought no one would get 14,000 yards after Curtis Martin). It’s a passing era and RBs come and go. He has stood up to the test of time. We have debated Frank for weeks if not months. Edgerrin James has a better resume for sure and has waited a bit. That may be due to how deep the ballot is now.
If Frank wishes to hang it up this year, he won’t have to worry about 25 players by the time he is on the ballot. And there will be even more room due to some players’ eligibility running up who make the Semi Finalists here and there( Roger Craig, Mike, Kenn,Clay Matthews, Albert Lewis). I haven’t really looked it up, but several names come to mind among those who are eligible coming up before Frank is on the ballot: Peyton Manning, Jared Allen, Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson, Steve Smith Sr, Calvin Johnson, Charles Woodson, Tony Gonzalez, Anquan Boldin, Kevin Williams, and Ed Reed. Again I may have missed some, but that’s 11 right there and I see Peyton as a lock for first ballot, Ed Reed as the next closest lock, then Tony Gonzalez 3rd, and Charles Woodson 4th. And among the remaining. Boldin has the hardest road due to how deep the WR pool is. So there might be around 8-9 empty slots by the time he is “on the clock”. I do hope Frank comes back for one more year. Maybe he re joins his old team and is 3rd down type of back. Jimmy G may actually be the franchise QB they’ve been looking for since Steve Young/Jeff Garcia. Alex Smith was decent to good, but he was closer to a game manager than to a franchise/top tier QB;and Colin K showed flashes but his sideline antics may have cost him his job. Agree or not with his kneeling, it is very plausible.
Speaking of RBs, who will honestly challenge him for HOF among those who played a down in 2017? We all know Adrian Peterson is a 1st ballot lock whenever he decides to retire. Next in line is Marshawn Lynch. But, another guy I see as a potential HOFer is LeSean McCoy. 2/6/10s? with a rushing title is pretty solid. And he may reach 12-13k rushing yards. I actually could see him leap frogging Marshawn as far as the pecking order for RBs after AP and Gore. I love these debates. I makes you think of all the future HOFers and whose case is stronger than the other. Happy New Years to my Zoneblitz Family!
Finalist announcement Tues Jan 2 at 8p on NFL network
my prediction:
Ronde Barber
Tony Boselli
Isaac Bruce
Brian Dawkins
Alan Faneca
Edgerrin James
Joe Jacoby
Jimmy Johnson
Ty Law
Ray Lewis
John Lynch
Kevin Mawae
Randy Moss
Terrell Owens
Brian Urlacker
Too soon to see really who ends up retiring before 2018 season, but here is what upcoming years hold for 1st time eligible (and yes I did not include everyone, just those likely to get any PFHOF interest from fans and voters):
2019: Tony Gonzalez, Ed Reed, Champ Bailey
2020: Troy Polamalu, Reggie Wayne, Patrick Willis.
2021: Peyton Manning, Charles Woodson, Calvin Johnson, Jared Allen.
2022: Demarcus Ware, Andre Johnson, Steve Smith
2023: Darrelle Revis ? Eli Manning? Adrian Peterson? Jason Witten? Drew Brees? Julius Peppers? Antonio Gates? Larry Fitzgerald? Dwight Freeney? Marshawn Lynch? Frank Gore?
One interesting observation is that relative to other past and future years, 2019-2020 both seem lighter in terms of strong potential for 1st time elected (Gonzalez, Reed, Polamalu), meaning at least 7 open modern slots to fill with those remaining on ballot after 2018 election??
Paul – I have the same 15 as you. I’m confident on 13, but wouldn’t be surprised to see Seymour and Coryell instead of Barber and Johnson.
A few months ago on a thread here I looked ahead to the next 5 Classes and tried to predict how many future first time eligibles will be enshrined by 2022.
My conclusion was I think it bodes well for the 15 finalists announced tonight who will still be eligible in 2022. There will be 25 spots available between 2018-22, with maybe only seven or eight at the most of those places being taken by the names listed above by Paul. That would leave approx 17-18 places available to names already on the ballot.
Im Much Higher on seymour than i am on jimmy johnson again jmo
I agree that very possible 2-3 different players could make final 15 not on my list. I find it easy to put first 12, last 3 always hardest as hard to predict what 40+ voters will come up with.
Yes looking at 2019-2021, ten players not elected this year are certainly well positioned for future elections.
And I hate the coaches are still mixed in with players, makes it hard for me to make a case for any coach over any player in the final 15 (and for me I simply ignore them). If a coach gets in fine, but for me it always comes over a player that was more deserving. Once current bylaw ends in 2019, PFHOF really needs to consider moving coaches into contributors pool.
Paul: Your point on coaches is a good one, but I think it is somewhat overstated. For example, when Bill Belichick makes the list, he should be a slam dunk first ballot hall of famer. He has been state good. The same was true for Noll, Landry, Shula, and Gibbs. However, when it came time for Dungy, he had to wait a few years. Therefore, I think your comment about the relative worth of coaches vs. players has more to do with the relative strength of Coryell’s and Johnson’s candidacies (or Schottenheimer’s or Parker’s or whoever).
This actually raises a good question that I have been thinking about since my last post: other than Belichick, are there any other HOF coaches candidates in the foreseeable future? I guess Carroll is a maybe depending on how the next couple years go. Same with Harbaugh. I guess Tomlin would considerably improve his chances with another Super Bowl win. Shanahan (senior) might have had his solid candidacy ruined by his time in Washington. In short, I don’t see many, and that is pretty remarkable given how much importance we typically place on coaches. And how many great coaches were in the league at the same time during the 70s and 80s.
which 3 players could surprise everbody tonight on the finalists ballot tonight
Mecklenburg
Holt
Walls (if you listen to the talkoffame guys)
justin we agree once again are you shocked do we have the same idea
Lewis Urlacher James Moss Owens Bruce Lynch Dawkins Walls Law Boselli Mawae Jacoby Hutchinson Faneca
The 2018 Finalists:
Tony Boselli
Isaac Bruce
Brian Dawkins
Alan Faneca
Steve Hutchinson
Joe Jacoby
Edgerrin James
Ty Law
Ray Lewis
John Lynch
Kevin Mawae
Randy Moss
Terrell Owens
Brian Urlacher
Everson Walls
Walls is an interesting selection. 3 Interception titles may have helped him get this far, Could he sneak in the 2018 class because he is nearing his eligibility? Possibly. But I just can’t believe he makes it this far and Zach Thomas with a by far better resume can’t even make the semis. It may be due to Ray Lewis and Brian Urlacher. I hope, once those two get elected, Zach gets in and has serious Finalist consideration.
Anyway, I like the list. My guess is going to be for the class: Ray Lewis, Alan Faneca, Brian Dawkins, Randy Moss,and Kevin Mawae. My 4 wild cards are Isaac Bruce, Terrell Owens, Ty Law, and Joe Jacoby.
The 2018 Finalists:
Tony Boselli
Isaac Bruce
Brian Dawkins
Alan Faneca
Steve Hutchinson
Joe Jacoby
Edgerrin James
Ty Law
Ray Lewis
John Lynch
Kevin Mawae
Randy Moss
Terrell Owens
Brian Urlacher
Everson Walls
Walls is an interesting selection. 3 Interception titles may have helped him get this far, Could he sneak in the 2018 class because he is nearing his eligibility? Possibly. But I just can’t believe he makes it this far and Zach Thomas with a by far better resume can’t even make the semis. It may be due to Ray Lewis and Brian Urlacher. I hope, once those two get elected, Zach gets in and has serious Finalist consideration.
Anyway, I like the list. My guess is going to be for the class: Ray Lewis, Alan Faneca, Brian Dawkins, Randy Moss,and Kevin Mawae. My 4 wild cards are Isaac Bruce, Terrell Owens, Ty Law, and Joe Jacoby.
anyone shocked that all of the finaiists are players and not a coach or two
Stunned by the Walls selection and also surprised neither Coryell or Johnson are finalists. It really is time to move coaches away from “modern era” and into the Contributors category.
Lewis
TO or Moss
A defensive back (Dawkins my choice)
An offensive lineman (Boselli or Faneca)
A second WR, DB or OL.
Kramer
Brazile
Beathard
agreed about the part where we move the coaches into contributor category My class of 2018 Lewis Dawkins Moss Faneca Law
Walls was an enormous surprise. I am pretty shocked that he made it over Barber, and personally I would have rather seen Craig move on if they wanted to advance a player in their final year of the modern-era vote.
Hutchinson is a little bit of a surprise, but only because I didn’t think they would move this many OL on.
The lack of a coach is a surprise as well, but realistically there was no way that Coryell or Johnson was going to be inducted this year. It’s just too stacked of a finalist list.
My guesses for induction would be:
Lewis
Owens
Dawkins
Faneca
Mawae
Kramer
Brazile
Beathard
I couldn’t agree more that coaches need to move to the Contributors category. I have absolutely no idea why coaches from all eras are being compared against modern era players.
i got 13 out of the 15 the two i didnt get were james and walls
13/15 for me too. Missed out on Hutchinson and Walls. As BSLO said, I didn’t think they’d pick five OL, but Hutchinson is certainly worthy. However, it also runs the risk they’ll all cancel each other out.
agreed like the risk of dawkins and lynch cancel each other out right
Looks like I also managed to hit on 13/15, and was not really surprised with Hutchinson and Walls as I thought they both had a chance. I highly doubt either is in a position to get elected this year. For Walls it is common for the voters to advance players in their last year on the modern ballot, with mixed outcomes to whether then get elected or fall into the seniors pool, but having the opportunity for the first time (even if ends up the only time) to have his case heard in front of the full committee is great. But with Law also on the ballot (and unlike Walls, Law is an all decade team member), I do not think Walls will advance.
And I am going to stick with my current election prediction of moderns: Tony Boselli, Brian Dawkins, Ty Law, Ray Lewis, Randy Moss.
But I could easy see where Moss is replaced by TO, Boselli by Mawae and Dawkins by Lynch. But feel pretty confident that one WR, one OL and one Safety will be elected. Lewis is the only lock, and I going out on a limb with Law, but see Jacoby as a potential wildcard for that fifth and final modern slot. Besides Lewis, this is perhaps one of the most open elections in recent years and given what we have already noted about 2020-2021, a great year for the voters to start cleaning up the logjams at WR, OL and Safety which I am sure the voters are aware of and also want to start addressing.
I concur with paul
Walls and Law have closer PFHOF profiles that I would have guessed without looking up:
Law, 2/5/all decade, 3x SBs, 2x season INt leader, 53 career INTS (24th)
Walls 1(2)/4, SB, 3x season INt leader, 57 career INTS (13th)
Still I think that compared side by side as candidates, Law with 3 SBs and all decade team holds an advantage, really hard to make the case that of the two Walls is better (how will his presenter present that Walls is the better one??). But will voters still give an edge to Walls because it is his last year on the modern candidate ballot, perhaps but in the past that has not always worked in favor. But for Law he was a final 10 last year, clearly top CB in the pool until Champ Bailey enters in 2019-will PFHOF look to get Law in this year before Bailey??
That will be interesting between walls and law
Here’s in no order of what I can see as very plausible classes. Ray Lewis is a constant because he has an very overwhelming case and some others will be in a lot of the classes due to their overwhelming resume:
Ray Lewis
Randy Moss
Alan Faneca
Brian Dawkins
Ty Law
Ray Lewis
Terrell Owens
Kevin Mawae
John Lynch
Joe Jacoby
Ray Lewis
Kevin Mawae
Edgerrin James
Joe Jacoby
John Lynch
Ray Lewis
Terrell Owens
Everson Walls
Alan Faneca
Brian Dawkins
Ray Lewis
Randy Moss
Ty Law
Tony Boselli
Kevin Mawae
Ray Lewis
Everson Walls
Joe Jacoby
Randy Moss
Isaac Bruce
Ray Lewis
Terrell Owens
Alan Faneca
John Lynch
Edgerrin James
Now there are other combinations but it shows you how hard it will be to determine who gets in this year. Everson Walls is going to be a factor. If he made the Semis because it’s his last year on the ballot, then okay. But him making it this far tells me that voters feel strong about him;and don’t want to wait until he is in the Senior pool. This Semi finalist class was very strong. He got in over Steve Atwater, Ronde Barber, Torry Holt, and Richard Seymour. Walls could get that late surge we have seen in all HOFs (NBA, MLB,NHL) and surprisingly get in. But, I wouldn’t be shocked if he did. I never posted it I don’t think, but I’ve always thought of him as a potential HOFer with 3 int titles. That’s more than most if not all of the all time greats(top 10-20 DBs). Or part of the reason why he has made it this far is because HOF voters don’t want his name to fade when he is in the Senior pool. Too many big names never made it this far. Of course as far as DBs I got Johnny Robinson, Lemar Parrish, Donnie Shell, Deron Cherry, Eddie Meador, and Lester Hayes all ahead of him. But, getting this far makes his case a wildcard. If I were a betting man and got great odds on him getting inducted, I’d throw a buck on it. I give it about 15% chance he gets in. Not great, but it is something to keep a lookout for.
It was over a decade ago and much different collection of PFHOF voters, but worth pointing out that a 1st all decade player who had never been a finalist and was in his last year as a modern candidate, was advanced to final 10 yet not elected-when less than maximum allowed moderns were elected (Cliff Harris) – just a cautionary note about Walls, once discussion and voting rounds start in that room you never know all of which could happen
This is my best Guess for the HOF this year
1. Ray Lewis
2. Randy Moss
3. John Lynch
4. Alan Faneca
5. Joe Jacoby
6. Beatherd
7. Brazille
8. Kramer
I would take Owens, Law, Dawkins or Hutchinson over Jacoby personally
Bill last year both Tony Boselli and Kevin Mawae advanced into the round of final 10 did not (including Faneca and Jacoby who did not advance beyond final 15). Any reason why you think this year both Faneca and Jacoby will jump over Boselli and Mawae into final 10 and then elected?? Just wondering
im wondering myself too paul
Jacoby does have one factor in his favor-which can often push a player into election-his last year on the modern ballot. But as history of PFHOF elections will show that factor does not always come into play, but it could-hence why he would be my wildcard. With Kramer also on the ballot, I wonder whether voters will go with more than 1 other OL, seems like that would be between Boselli and Mawae. But 5 OL on final 15 list is interesting and will have to see how voters sort out and prioritize all of them, and potential for split OL selections
I believe Jacoby will get in because it is his last year on ballot and I truly believe that Faneca had a slightly better career than the other two. Let’s be honest, there has already been surprises this year.
Big surprise to me that Everson Walls made the finals. It is his last regularly eligible year, though, so my guess is that they wanted to give him a chance in the room. He’s the only finalist who I definitely don’t think belongs in (3/4/none profile, not the best in film study reportedly). My guess is that his number of lifetime INTs got him through.
My latest guess for those getting in:
Lewis
Law
Dawkins
Mawae
Jacoby
Beathard
Brazile
Kramer
It’s possible that Lynch, Faneca, or Owens might replace someone on the list, though. Tough year to predict beyond Lewis, am thinking.
it’s possible that Lynch, Faneca, or Owens might replace someone on the list, though. Tough year to predict beyond Lewis, am thinking.
agreed with that bachs as regards to that who knows
Yea I agree this is a PFHOF election year where we may see surprises
With 2017 All Pro team announced today, who do you think really advanced their potential PFHOF case the most with selection?
I am thinking Aaron Donald (3rd selection), Luke Kuechly (4th) and Bobby Wagner (3rd)- all should also be leading contenders for 2010s all decade team which is only two more seasons away from selection
I think Luke has a shot at first ballot enshrinement the way he is playing. I could see a resume of 6/11/10s which is on par with Derrick Brooks, a first ballot HOFer (Derrick also has a SB win and was a big part of one of the best Defenses of all time in the 2002 Bucs). Big ifs for Luke, but it’s something to keep an eye on.
AP 1st team All-Pros:
4 – Antonio Brown, Gronkowski, Kuechly, Hekker.
Earl Thomas, Von Miller and Julio Jones all added a 2nd team selection to their three AP 1st-team selections.
And great to see Luke to return, especially considering after health issues in 2016 his career was in question, and I agree he is on a solid path as are Brown and Gronk.
How does everyone else view 2nd team selections, what weight in evaluating PFHOF qualifications??
Mainly tiebreakers paul
When you consider All Pro is one selection for each position (best player in league at that position that year), and 2nd selection is still pretty impressive (2nd best player in entire league at this position that year), so I agree it should have some weight-even over pro bowl selections-we are all aware of those issues.
which i agree with paul
I’ve been thinking. Bill B is a lock for All Decade Coach, but who is the 2nd coach? I say Mike Tomlin.
Could be Tomlin and it may also be Pete Carroll. I can’t see Andy Reid or Mike McCarthy being considered as both have missed the playoffs a few times in the decade.
Great question, Brad. My initial gut was Carroll had a lead over Tomlin because Tomlin is basically riding the same wave started by Noll and continued by Cowher. In short, Pittsburgh has been a well-oiled machine since the early 70s that typically wins when it has a QB (and some times even when it doesn’t … see Stewart and O’Donnell). The more I thought about it, I think two additional coaches should get some serious consideration: Harbaugh and Payton (especially if he wins another Super Bowl). In the end, however, Tomlin can easily claim the title if he wins a second Super Bowl (but only the second this decade).
Any reason why no new post started on the finalists???
Day job. Apologies, but been buried. It’s on my list.
Matt Ryan while 4-6 isn’t stellar, has IMO really helped his HOF resume this year. Yes he went 2 and done, but we have seen for years a SB hangover(Losing team the next year usually do not make let alone win a playoff game. Very few times they have made it. Off the top of my head Brady and Peyton are the only do to so. I’m sure there are others but not many). I think next year he’ll really ramp up his regular season numbers. I don’t think this year is a year of decline. They have a good running game.
no problem Andy, was just hoping you guys did not abandon us in here, thanks
Thomas Davis announced that next year will be his last. Any chance he gets HOF consideration?
With a resume of 1/2/none probably not. I’d be more of a supporter for London Fletcher. 0/4/none isn’t exactly what HOF voters want to see. but he played in an era filled with good to great LBs. He was at one point a 9x Pro Bowl Alternate. He has had about 10 quality seasons and played in 256 consecutive games, which is darn impressive. He is one of maybe 2 or 3 (not 100% sure) with 39 sacks and 23 ints in a career. I know tackles are a bit overrated because a tackle at the line of scrimmage shows up in the stat sheet the same as for a 40 yard gain; but he had over 2,000 career tackles. 1,000 for the most part is considered a nice career. He doubled that.
I’m starting to get the feeling that you could put Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford and Carson Palmer on team and get the same results. They are all very good qb’s that can make a decent team a little better and certainly give you a shot every weekend to win even if you are bad team, but none of them can get you over the hump to win a Super Bowl.
And is it me or id Mariotta, Winston, Carr and Newton all take a step back!
Finally I know Roethlisberger has a couple of rings but I would rather have Rivers leading my team any day over Roethlisberger! Does that guy ever accept responsibility for anything?
I do think Thomas Davis has a chance to get in to PFHOF……..on the day he buys a ticket
Here we go with that rivers over big Ben yet again
I actually think Ben is better talent, I just think he is a terrible leader.
“I actually think Ben is better talent, I just think he is a terrible leader.”
?? He led two Pittsburg teams to SB wins, I think that shows leadership. I know he has his issues, and many people do not like his attitude at time, but if the aim of this game is to win (and not make friends with all your teammates, media or fans) looks to me like he is a leader. I am not aware of a time or situation where his teammates have revolted or shown they did not support him as starting QB. Rivers is a great talent, but for whatever reason (not always on him) he has not delivered a SB and for that he will be judged in terms of the PFHOF. Just look at the QBs in the PFHOF especially those elected recently, without SB wins-especially in the era when Rivers played and the top Qbs with SB wins now or in the future in the PFHOF-I think he his going to have a hard time unless he ends his career on a real high note.
Ben wants to play 3 more seasons. I think this will help his HOF case a lot. If he retired end of the year I think he’d get in on his first 2-3 ballots. If he can get close to or pass Dan Marino’s yard mark,that would certainly help his chances for first ballot. 1 more SB win gets him in first ballot without a doubt. I also think 2-3 more PBs will help his chances. 8-9 PBs with 60k-62k passing yards would get Ben in on his first ballot most likely .
I really do not place much importance on first ballot election, especially considering one factor would be unknown at this point-other players on the same ballot. But if Ben retired today he would be elected within first few ballots, if only QB from his era (no Brady, Eli, Brees) he would likely be first ballot- 2 SBs and top 10 career numbers will carry plenty of weight IF no other QBs on ballot.
Paul, do you take into consideration at all that Pittsburgh has had the best offensive weapons in the AFC for the past four seasons and still have not gone to the Super Bowl and that is then followed by Ben pointing the finger at someone else. I’ve never seen Brady or the Manning’s do that. Ben is a HOF QB he is just not a good leader.
As far as Rivers and the HOF… even though he has not played in a Super Bowl he will get in eventually. There is precedent for QB’s like Rivers. Jurgensen, Fouts and Moon never played in Super Bowls.
Bill juat curious how long will you go on this ben is not a good leader tangent
I am not so sure Rivers matches up that well in comparison with Moon, Jurgensen, Fouts:
Rivers 0/7
Moon 1/9/MVP/OPOY
Jurgensen 2(1)/5 NFL MVP, All Decade
Fouts 2(2)/6, NFL MVP, OPOY, All Decade
If Ken Anderson 1(2)/4, MVP, OPOY (no SB win) is stuck in the seniors candidate pool, I fail to see why Rivers would not likely suffer the same fate. Especially considering that he will be considered at best the 6th or 7th best QB from his era (Brady,Manning,Eli, Brees, Rodgers, Ben R)
I think Rivers gets in on modern era ballot, but it will take him at least 12-14 years. There are so many players who deserve to be in right now. There will be many still on the ballot when Rivers retires and is eligible. And to think years down the road we still got these following names to add to the ballot: Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning,Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger. Eli Manning, Adrian Peterson, Frank Gore, Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Steve Smith Sr, Anquan Boldin (He is going to have a very hard time getting in on modern/Senior ballot. Too many players who deserve it just as much or even more),Tony Gonzalez , Jason Witten, Antonio Gates, Joe Thomas, Jason Peters, Jahri Evans, DeMarcus Ware, Jared Allen,Julius Peppers, Dwight Freeney, Kevin Williams, Patrick Willis,Terrell Suggs, Ed Reed, Charles Woodson,Champ Bailey, Troy Polamalu, Adam Vinatieri, Shane Lechler. Maybe 8-10 first ballot HOFers, so they won’t linger to keep Rivers out longer. That’s 34 names if I counted right. That’s enough for close to 7 classes. And that doesn’t include most of the 2010s ADT contenders. And you also have to factor in who will be left once Rivers appears on the ballot.
I forgot Darrelle Revis. As a Jet fan I’m embarrassed.
And I am sure Ken Anderson or the many pre 1980 all decade team members thought they would have been elected by now
Good question I have thought of : How long will it take to get Moss, TO, Bruce, and Holt all in the HOF? Is it by 2021-2023? Or is it later? I think the former. I do think a WR gets in this year. Either Moss or TO gets in this year, 2019 should set up for the other to get in. Then Bruce and Holt are next up the way it looks. Maybe voters address the Safety logjam too. How it could play out is 2020 one of the WRs gets in , the 2021 or 2022 the other finally gets elected. Then the real fun begins with Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Steve Smith Sr, Hines Ward, and Anquan Boldin. I honestly do not know, out of those, who would get in first. My pick would be Reggie Wayne, but you can make a case for the first 3. Ward and Boldin are going to wait a long time before they get in. But I do think Ward has a better shot at getting in before his time is up. 2 SB wins and a SB MVP helps his case a ton. Also, he wasn’t really known for his receiving like a Moss, Rice, TO, etc, More known for his blocking. But, still managed to grab 1,000 passes. The pecking order will be interesting to see by the time 2021 comes around and they announce the ballot for the 2022 class. All of which will be eligible by then.
Robert- I’m pretty sure it was two posts..so I guess I’m done and I’m guessing you are a Steelers fan.
bill after some thinking i can understand your point on ben roethlisberger and yes im a steelers fan
Here is how those WRs stack up:
Bruce 13th rec, 5th yds, 12th TDs 0/4 SB
Holt 21st rec, 16th yrds, 35th TDs 1/7 SB
Ward 14th rec, 25th yrds, 15th TDs, 0/4 2SBs SB MVP
Wayne (2020) 10th rec, 10th yrds, 32nd TDs, 1/6 SB
C Johnson (2021) 44th rec, 29th yrd, 22TDs, 3/6, All decade?
A Johnson (2022) 11th rec, 11 yrds, 42nd TDs, 2/7. All decade?
S.Smith (2022) 12th rec, 8th yrds, 26th TDs, 2/5
A Boldin (2022) 9th rec, 14th yrds, 23rd TDs, (1)/3
Bruce, Holt and Ward will have 2019 on ballot, but would still likely be up against either TO or Moss (if we assume one gets elected this year) with TO/Moss elected that year-so likely all three will still be on ballot when Wayne appears in 2020. Then even if one of those four gets in 2020 (but big risk of vote splitting), Calvin brings WRs back up to 4 in 2021 and then in 2022 that number could be as high as 7-at that point likely not that many even make 25 semifinalist list. No matter how 2018-2022 sorts out, there is no way in avoiding a huge WR logjam in 2022. It could play out many different ways, but here is one prediction:
2018 Moss
2019 TO
2020 Holt
2021 Ward
2022 Wayne
2023 C Johnson or A Johnson (may come down to who ends up on first team 2010s all decade team?). Very possible Calvin’s shorter career and lower numbers pushes him later by a few years.
Smith and Boldin likely looking at longer wait but may then come up against Larry F. I think Bruce may be the old man out hear and have longest wait, certainly if he does not get in before 2022 which seems to be very uncertain: would voters put him in first over Ward with better numbers and SB MVP? Or over Wayne who has better numbers and also a SB??
This assumes only 5 modern candidates each year and that for 6+ years the voters would elect a WR each year to fill one of those 5-not a certainty be any means. It is very possible by 2020 several of these WRs could fail to make 25 semi-finalists and a few not get to 15 finalist lists.
In reference to all those WRs here are the upcoming classes of 1st time eligible modern players, including those I see as serious contenders for first year election (*):
2019: Tony Gonzalez*, Ed Reed*, Champ Bailey*
2020: Troy Polamalu*, Reggie Wayne, Patrick Willis.
2021: Peyton Manning*, Charles Woodson*, Calvin Johnson, Jared Allen.
2022: Demarcus Ware*, Andre Johnson, Steve Smith
So there certainly would appear to be room, certainly in 2020 and 2022, to get some of these WRs elected as well as current logjams at OL and Safety.
agreed on your last post it seems to me the loser of law lynch dawkins has to go up against reed and bailey whats your take
I think in 2019 Gonzalez, Reed and Bailey are getting in plus TO/Owens and Boselli/Mawee
Don’t you mean moss\owens
Yes, TO/Moss
These are three very impressive PFHOF candidates, all considered among top 5 all time at their positions. I have no doubt that all three will be elected as 1st time eligible in 2019 and no one remaining on 2018 ballot will block them-everyone else will be fighting for the two remaining modern slots next year. If a Safety (Dawkins/Lynch) and Law are not elected this year, they will be blocked by Reed/Bailey next year. Keeping in mind 2019 will likely see TO/Owens and very possible Urlacker 4(1)/8, DPOY, All decade on ballot (although I have Urlacker as possible wildcard this year)
Gonzalez 6(4)/14, All decade
Reed 5(3)/9 DPOY SB All decade
Bailey 5(2)/12 All decade
My 2018 class : Dawkins faneca lewis. Owens. Fifth spot is between boselli Jacoby law lynch moss walls
Just wondering why you think Faneca will jump both 2017 final ten OL Mawae and Boselli for election this year. Plus Owens over Moss?
I have a hunch Faneca jumps them as well. I also think Moss gets in over Owens.
I’m guessing Atwater will just be a Senior selection. You cannot have a 2/8 profile with an All Decade Team on your resume and get neglected forever.
Corey one would hope not but there are players with those achievements and more that have been the seniors pool for decades
Atwater would also be fresh in the minds of voters once he drops in. The committee more times than not in recent years opted to select someone just a couple years into the pool.
It really doesn’t make sense. Atwater checks off just about every box the voters look for for enshrinement.
I think he is just caught on the modern ballot at a bad time; 1) PFHOF voters have not favored the Safety position over others, 2) All Decade team member Safeties are flooding the ballot, and will increase with Reed (2019) and Troy P (2021). Is Atwater that much better than Dawkins and Lynch who have similar qualifications? What sets Atwater apart? I think that questions and split voting for the position among voters have really hurt his case and chances in recent years.
As to his chances in the senior candidate pool, really hard to say as this year saw two senior candidates who have been in that pool for a while. I am not so sure Atwater rises quickly to the top once he does get into it-you just never know.
When you consider Atwater has been eligible since 2005, Lynch since 2013 and Dawkins since 2017, it makes you wonder. Especially since during some years in the 2000s not every slot was filled up. Plus even though most who are finalists eventually get elected and deservingly so, I can’t always deem that the case.
I was never strong on Charles Haley and I frankly don’t get the love for Joe Jacoby for Canton. I would absolutely put Atwater in before either of them and the fact Jacoby while Atwater isn’t just scratches my head.
No one can argue against Atwater’s profiles. Jacoby’s are nice but not Hall of Game profiles.
Atwater has suffered from the long discussed and understood unfortunate view many PFHOF voters have had against the Safety position. I believe Paul Krause was the last “pure” safety elected in 1998 and it took him years to get in even though he retired as the career leader in INTs. But with three recent all decade safeties now on the ballot (and two more comming in next two years) even the voters know they have to start to respect the position. Unfortunately even though he has been on the ballot the longest, Atwater may be the man out. Again the judgement is not against Atwater, it is the long standing lack of appreciation for the safety position that has kept him out. Atwaters profile of 2(1)/8 all decade 2 SBs is impressive and PHOF deserving, but I would not be so quick to dismiss Jacoby with 3(1)/4, all decade 3 SBs
Keep in mind Jacoby was on the 1980s All Decade Team, and as we have debated and discussed in the past, All Decade selections can be spotty. After all, that same team had John Anderson as the kicker, which was negatively panned on here.
As I’ve stated before, I evaluate coaches and executives by Super Bowls, not owners, with my line exception being the perennially disrespected Don Coryell.
Jacoby is not the best offensive lineman in the modern era pool. Faneca and Mawae lead the way. I’d put Boselli and Richmond Webb ahead of him as well, and as a Bears fan, I cannot forget about Olin Kreutz.
If the Seniors nominated Jacoby, that’d be a mistake. I think he drops off after this year, and I cannot get behind Joe Jacoby as a nominee while George Kunz and Dick Schafrath are stuck in Senior pool purgatory.
Now we can agree on schafrath and kunz Corey who else would you put on the senior o line list
I never said Jacoby was best OL on current modern ballot, just stating that he has strong qualifications to merit consideration and a slot in the final 15. It is always possible his last year as a modern could influence voting but as I have pointed out before, final year on ballot has often not led to election of a candidate in the past
I’ve been waiting for a while to make my pitch for Jacoby, and now seems as good a time as any.
First, and foremost, Joe Jacoby was the best player on the best o line in NFL history. I know the 70s Raiders had more hall of famers, but the Hogs won more championships and consistently but up better numbers than any other OL. In 1991, the last great Redskins team (and one of the best ever), the Redskins gave up 9 sacks for the season (I believe including the playoffs). That is less than half a sack a game. And that team played Lawrence Taylor, Reggie White, Clyde Simmons, Jerome Brown, Leonard Marshall, and Ken Harvey twice! As well as Richard Dent, Steve McMicheal, Michael Dean Perry, Sean Jones, William Fuller, Greg Lloyd, and of course, Bruce Smith in the Super Bowl. All of those players, with the exception of Bruce Smith who was injured most of the year, average more than half a sack a game by themselves. That means, although the Redskins played at least 18 players that had as many sacks individually as the Redskins gave up as a team!
Grimm got into the HOF fame first because he retired first. Both were great, but even Charlie Casserly recently admitted that if he could only have one, he would pick Jacoby because he played the more valuable position. Jacoby started at left tackle as an undrafted rookie. He was repeatedly an all pro and pro bowler. Yes, it would be nice if he had went to more pro bowls, but if he played today, he would have easily made 6-8 based on the fact he was a pro bowler by his third season and stayed a pro bowler for the next four years. After that, he would have been voted in on reputation as happens today. However, that is not to say that his play diminished much. He was hurt more often after his seventh season, but his biggest obstacle to more pro bowls was actually the fact that so many of his fellow Hogs made the pro bowl at one time or another: Grimm, Lachey, May, Bostic, and Schlereth all made the pro bowl while playing along side Jacoby. There was only so many Redskins OL that could get voted in each year.
The winning speaks for itself. The Redskins did have one of the greatest coaches in history, but it never had a HOF caliber QB while Jacoby played. Yet, the team still won three Super Bowls and went to a fourth. And let’s not forget that Jacoby played without John Riggins for well over half his career, including two Super Bowl winning teams. Therefore, without either a HOF QB or RB, the Redskins won two Super Bowls. The OL was a HUGE part, if not the biggest part, of the franchise’s success.
Finally, Jacoby was the first of a new breed of left tackle. Yes, Anthony Munoz is the gold standard for left tackles, but he would actually have a very hard time playing today at his 278 pound playing weight. By comparison, Joe Jacoby was 305, which is a much more common weight today. Before Jacoby, offensive tackles were much lighter players. After Jacoby, the position changed. It wasn’t just that Jacoby was big, but that he was still cat quick. He pulled just like Forrest Gregg did at 250, but hit with the load of 300+ pounds. When he passed blocked, the rushers couldn’t even see the QB. Several of his defensive contemporaries have described Jacoby as the best left tackle they played. It is no mistake that the golden era of left tackles came immediately after Jacoby. Walter Jones, Orlando Pace, Jonathan Ogden, Willie Roaf, etc. were all playing left tackle (probably instead of defensive end) because of Joe Jacoby. There is a reason that both the Blindside movie and book start with a discussion of Joe Jacoby and his absence from Joe Theismann’s last game.
Interestingly, this dovetails nicely into the above discussion of Steve Atwater. Atwater was a very good safety, but he could never play today. Darren Woodson started a revolution that Brian Dawkins, Ed Reed, and Troy Polamalu (and if only Sean Taylor had survived) continued. Steve Atwater is basically Mark Barron. Too slow to cover as a safety and not quite big enough to be a dominate linebacker. In the end, however, Steve Atwater was a very good safety for his era, but I understand why the electorate do not view him in the same category as the safeties that came later. They almost didn’t play the same position, and the latter guys had much bigger impacts on the game.
That is somewhat less true of Joe Jacoby. While I have no allusions that guys like Munoz, Gregg, and Shell were rendered obsolete by Jacoby. They could still play today, but they would be differently shapped and be asked to do different things. That is simply the reality of Joe Jacoby’s impact on the game of professional football. For that reason, not to mention his individual and team dominance, Joe Jacoby belongs in the hall of fame. That said, I think George Kunz deserves to be discussed too. Along with lots of other seniors that I hope Jacoby never has to compete against. It is a very difficult task for any player.
Well, Paul, are Jacoby’s qualifications that strong if he is behind the others I mentioned?
Robert, those two are among the best, along with Walt Sweeney, Ed Budde, John Niiland, Jim Tyrer and Grady Anderson, assuming Kramer is elected.
I should have said, “the Redskins played 18 games against players that had as many sacks individually as the Redskins gave up as a team!”
Put Bob Talamini among the best Senior offensive linemen not in, and of course, I almost forgot about Al Wistert.
We agree about the senior of linemen again corey
I am not well versed about OL currently in the seniors pool including if Jacoby is added and how they would all rank. I will say that of those OL, they would all rank below several other players at different positions who are already senior candidates especially a number of more deserving LBs and DBs, OL Kramer elected this year I would hope and suspect it may be a while before an OL (including Jacoby) are selected as senior candidates.
One thing I like about possibly electing Jacoby (3/4/80s) is that there are quite a few other OTs who then have their HoF argument strengthened. Players like Mike Kenn (3/5/none), Marvin Powell (3/5/none), Lomas Brown (3/7/none), Richmond Webb (2/7/none), and Chris Hinton (2/7/none) gain by this happening.
As far as ranking the outstanding Senior OL in the backlog, here are some good options:
Guard: Jerry Kramer (5/3/60s, Senior nominee this year), Dick Barwegen (5/4/50s),, Duane Putnam (5/5/none), Jim Ray Amith (4/5/none), Walt Sweeney (4/9/allAFL), John Niland (2/6/none), Gale Gillingham (4/5/none), Ken Gray (4/6/none).
Tackles: Jim Tyrer (10/9/allAFL), Winston Hill (1/8/allAFL), George Kunz 3/8/none), and Powell.
Ken Crippen’s site has film evaluations for Hill and Smith, and they’re among the best players looked at.
Also forgot Ed Budde at guard (3/7/allAFL). And of course it’s Jim Ray Smith, not Amith.
Agreed with what Bach said
Do you think Jacoby has a better Hall of Fame case than Webb, Bachs? I honestly don’t.
My answer corey nope
No, I don’t think Jacoby has a better HoF case than Webb. But electing Jacoby would make Webb and the other OTs mentioned harder to exclude from the HoF. If Jacoby’s passed over, though, it becomes harder to justify any of them.
agreed with you bachs could you post the crippen link for winston hill
John Turney said that Everson Walls is this years Morten Andersen’s. The wildcard.
id go along with that
Yeah the fact that Walls has made it this far makes him a pretty big wildcard. He’s made it farther into the process than anyone expected, he’s in his last year of eligibility and he’s never been in the room. Truly, anything could happen there.
Robert, here’s the link to Crippen’s film study link to Winston Hill:
http://www.kencrippen.com/Scouting-Reports/Hill_Winston.pdf
as well as for Jim Ray Smith:
http://www.kencrippen.com/Scouting-Reports/Smith_Jim%20Ray.pdf
and there’s one for Dick Barwegen as well:
http://www.kencrippen.com/Scouting-Reports/Barwegen_Dick.pdf
General link to all players looked at:
http://www.kencrippen.com/historical-scouting-reports.htm
Robert, here’s a link to Crippen’s film study site:
http://www.kencrippen.com/historical-scouting-reports.htm
You’ll find studies for Hill, Smith, and Barwegen here. Tried to post a link for each, but that put my initial reply attempt into moderation limbo.
Just a reminder as we get closer to Saturday and the PFHOF voting. Results will be released “officially” as part of the NFL Honors show that starts Saturday night at 9pm EST, with these results usually announced around 10pm EST. But this show is actually on a one hour taped delay (show starts at 8pm EST), which means in “real” time that announcement will actually occur around 9pm EST. In recent years some news started to appear on social media (often by the candidates themselves) when they received the news earlier that evening, so you can expect possible advance notice via social media between 7-9pm.
http://www.talkoffamenetwork.com/podcast-owens-moss-surely-controversial-hof-debate/ Pretty interesting analysis by 3 Hall of Fame Voters.
how long do you think the meeting will last on saturday my guess is the shortest debate will be on ray lewis the longest on moss/to
Guessing they are looking at another 8+ hr meeting
http://www.talkoffamenetwork.com/podcast-five-linemen-vie-for-hof/ Here is analysis on the oline from 3 Hall of Fame Voters.
Beginning to think of revising my prediction to:
Dawkins, Jacoby,Lewis, Moss, Walls (plus Kramer, Brazille) Beathard. Looking at last year on ballot push by voters for Jacoby and Walls to replace my earlier predictions of Boselli and Law.
same class as i have paul but why do i have this sinking feeling that kramer wont get in again
I think voters know they need to put in Kramer and the members of the seniors committee who selected him will be vocal in support of his case
only three i know for sure is lewis kramer and brazile other than that no idea
http://www.talkoffamenetwork.com/podcast-will-dbs-finally-get-hall-fame-due/ Here is analysis on the DB’s from 3 Hall of Fame Voters.
Yea the logjams at WR, DB and OL will make for some tough decision, and for those not elected this year 2019 is not going to be any easier with 3 very soild 1st time finalists to on that ballot in Reed, Bailey, and Gonzalez. That is why I am thinking (and hoping) that beyond Lewis at least one OL, S, and WR are also elected this year as starting to those logjams cleared is going to be important. But we will have to wait until Saturday night to know for sure. With only 5 slots, and many deserving candidates including I think 9 all decade team members, there are sure to be unhappy supporters and fans for those not elected this year.
i agree with paul id be ok with the class anyway
http://www.talkoffamenetwork.com/podcast-can-urlacher-lewis-make-hall-year/ Here is the analysis on the MLB’s from 3 Hall of Fame Voters.
i would put urlacher in if it means not voting in another wr or olineman
http://www.talkoffamenetwork.com/podcast-finally-jerry-kramers-hall-fame-year/ Here is the analysis on the Senior’s and Contributor from 3 Hall of Fame Voters. Gosselin states that Pearson, Karras, and Robinson are 3 people to watch out for in future years. Borges says Duke Slater.
And only one senior slot in 2019, plus that will end of five year 1-2 rotation of seniors and contributors so will be interesting to see how PFHOF board proceeds via election procedures in bylaws for 2020 and beyond, plus any special elections for NFL 100th in 2020
Any last thoughts before the committee heads into long day of discussion and voting early tomorrow morning? I am hearing and reading including buzz on social media of likely support strongest and agreement on Lewis and Moss, push for Walls and Jacoby but really wide open as after Lewis and Moss any 5-7 could fill the last 3 modern slots. Also looks favorable for the senior and contributor finalists.
There is a lot of support for Brian Dawkins. Here is a great article written by Clark Judge. http://www.talkoffamenetwork.com/handicapping-field-hall-fames-class-2018/
My Final prediction
1. Brazille
2. Kramer
3. Beatherd
4. Lewis
5. Moss
6. Boselli
7. Faneca
8. Lynch
Hopefully Kramer gets the call tomorrow.
Of course I’d love Urlacher, but I’m not worried about the Modern Era.
I’m not overly crazy on Pearson and Karras as future senior nominees, but as long as Robinson gets it, I’m happy.
Id Put in cliff branch over pearson would you agree corey
Absolutely. I’d also put Del Shofner, Billy Howton and Harold Jackson in ahead of Pearson as well.
we agree again corey id even add harold carmichael
Seniors and Contributors have been voted. Dawkins went first followed by Ty Law.
While I never get the final five modern era candidates correct, here are my predictions:
Lewis
Dawkins
Moss
Jacoby
Walls
Beathard
Kramer
Brazile
If this actually happens, it will be a very good year for defensive players.
More so than normal, the cut from 15 to 10 may be hugely important on who makes the hall. If Jacoby and/or Walls can get in the top 10, one would think they would get an extra push into the top 5 from momentum and the feeling that it is now or never. Similarly, if Moss can separate from Owens and Bruce, his chances seem much better. Finally, if too many of the lineman make it into the top 10, it may actually hurt there chances because they will split the all important vote from 10 to 5. I know this is always true, but it seems more critical this year than most.
Predicting the cut from 15 to 10 seems relatively easy for 4 of the 5 slots: Bruce, Hutchinson, James, Owens. But that fifth slot could go to 6-7 of the other 11 guys. My guess is that Mawae takes a step back only because of the recent push for Faneca who has been waiting longer. But like I said, I could see Jacoby or Walls in that position or Urlacher because voters do not want to push him forward knowing he is unlikely to make the top 5 this year. Or maybe Boselli suffers a step back given some of the mild backlash from short career guys getting in last year. Or maybe Faneca as a guard has to continue to wait.
My best guess is the top ten is the following: Boselli, Dawkins, Faneca, Jacoby, Law, Lewis, Lynch, Moss, Urlacher, Walls.
We know Lewis is a lock. Dawkins feels pretty close to a lock. At this point, I assume the voters push the last year candidates. I also assume they want to address the WR backlog. That is how I got to my final class. That said, nothing would shock me except Lewis being left out or Moss and Owens both making it!
Let he fun begin! Official Results on NFL Honors show around 10p EST, but with showtaped delay news will spread via social media around 9p but also likely earlier as elected candidates are told in early evening so we might start to get some idea 6-8p as those are posted by players or others on social media. Even voters will not know as they do not see final results but at least with modern they will have good idea as five final get a last vote yes or no, so voters will know those when they leave the room but results not revealed until show
Steve Wyche reported an hour ago that some of the voters expect multiple offensive linemen to be elected.
the four i would consider would be Faneca hutchinson jacoby mawae Because i value Longevity
Well with only 5 slots if 2 OL are elected we are looking at a CB, S or WR missing out, one of more of those positions will not be represented. Guessing if it ends up two OL either CB or S is not
All indications are that a safety is getting in this year. My guess is two OL means no WR.
I find it hard to believe that no WR is going to get in, I think when voters get to the final ten ballot with multiple OL but also WR S and CB they will be more inclined to elect one OL to left room for others
I agree Paul, but if two OL actually go in, then some position will have to be sacrificed and WR seems the most likely: given the TO opposition and Moss’s I play when I want to play comment.
Looks like PFHOF getting ahead of the leaks on social media before announcement of results during taping of NFL Honors show with press conference at 7p CT
Clark Judge on twitter said that voting is now over.
First rumor on social media is that Jacoby did not make it to final 5 round
Walls didnt get in
Yep so much for my change in prediction to add both!
My understanding is that @terrellowens did make the final 10 cut in Hall of Fame voting this year. Remember, he didn’t last year. We’ll see if he got it in soon enough. #PFHOF18
Wow now story circulating that TO did not even make final ten again this year wow
@Paul Manish Mehta is reporting the opposite.
Mark Kaboly
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Verified account
@MarkKaboly
44s45 seconds ago
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Ray Lewis, Terrell Owens, Randy Moss, Alan Faneca and Steve Hutchinson. Now, that wasn’t difficult. #HallofFame
Seniors and contributor got in
Moss in
Ty Law out.
Urlacher in
Chicago Tribune reporting Urlacher is IN
Brian Urlacher in
Dawkins in
Boselli and Lynch not in, class starting to firm up
Source familiar with Hall of Fame voting: Brian Dawkins was elected. John Lynch, Boulder’s Tony Boselli will have to wait till next year. #9sports
@mikeklis
Assuming Lewis got elected that leaves only spot left.
Owens in.
Urlacher Lewis Moss Dawkins and?????
Urlacher Lewis TO Moss Dawkins???
http://www.wbay.com/content/news/Hes-In-Jerry-Kramer-inducted-into-Pro-Football-Hall-of-Fame-472534413.html
Lewis
Urlacher
Moss
Owens
Dawkins
Kramer
Brazile
Beathard
Class of 2018
6 out of 8 for my predictions, thought at least one OL out of five moderns would get in, did not think room for Urlacher this year, surprised both Moss and TO but at least clears that logjam and get two controversial players elected and off future ballots, glad Dawkins gets in as finally a safety, and of course always pleased and supportive of seniors and contributor as also gets Kramer controversy resolved
Congratulations to all!
Very happy for Kramer, long time coming.
Didn’t see both Lewis and Urlacher both as likely. Moss and Owens either. The latter should open up the WR situation a good bit, though it might not help folks like Bruce, Holt,or Ward in the short run. Urlacher in now is also helpful.
Glad Dawkins is in, especially with Ed Reed and Champ Bailey coming up next year. Not good enough for Lynch or Atwater, though.
Sorry to hear about Jacoby and Walls, even though I was lukewarm on the former and not in favor of the latter.
That’s a fantastic class. I’m happiest for Kramer and Urlacher.
Bear Down!
Will have to wait and see names of those 6-10 but this should set up well for OL next year with Reed TonyG and Bailey next year, unfortunately into seniors pool does not look good for Jacoby and Walls
You never know. It isn’t unusual to get nominated by the Seniors not too long after dropping in there.
I don’t see a Hall of Famer in Jacoby. I was surprised when I saw Everson Walls being considered and his case was stronger than I thought.
Will update this later, but the class of 2018 post appears to be: https://www.zoneblitz.com/2018/02/03/pro-football-hall-fame-class-2018-named/
Great class. Only surprises for me too was no OL and Urlacher as I thought he’d have to wait a year with Lewis also on the ballot. Dawkins was my choice at DB too. He was better than Lynch. Kramer, finally. Moss and TO. Tough to separate them so if you put one in they decided both must get a yellow jacket. No complaints at all.
This really helps the WRs in future, especially Bruce. Lynch will have to wait again next year with Ed Reed. The OL backlog is tough, though Jacoby won’t be there next year as a modern era. Five OL cancelled each other out.
There’ll be at least seven new finalists next year. Reed, Bailey and Gonzalez will be three of them so expect four of this year’s semi finalists to take the next step.
Great class no complaints