Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2025 Announced

Brian wolf on February 6, 2025 at 11:18 pm

Due to the voting … Witten has no chance getting in first ballot next year, but I knew that. Happy for the inducted players but this was kinda ridiculous.

Time to end the contributor category. Classes need at least six players and/or coaches.

Porter had a chance to see 9 seniors get elected between 2023-2025. Instead it was 6 and two were popular defensive tackles from heavy media centers. Where will senior voting go from here?

Andy p on February 6, 2025 at 11:54 pm

My thoughts

I got 3/4

I expected a class of 8 instead we got a class of 4

I knew this new process wouldn’t work

I was right when I said Ralph Hay wouldn’t be elected and I can’t believe Maxie Baughan wasn’t elected either Rick Gosselin was right the selection committee has gotten younger not older I just hope this doesn’t happen to Clint Murchison and you know how much I would hate for to happen

I can’t believe Jim Tyrer didn’t make it also also granted what he did was wrong but he was suffering from CTE

I’m shocked Mike Holmgren didn’t make it

I’m glad Sterling Sharpe can join his brother in Canton

I’m surprised Eric Allen made it but I’m still happy for him

The wide receiver logjam is now going to be bigger with Larry Fitzgerald coming in 2026

I was right when I said this could be a clean up and we won’t see any first ballot Hall of Famers

I’m starting to have seconds thoughts about going to Canton in 2028 for Tom Brady’s Hall of Fame induction if this is the way it’s going to be from now on I don’t like it

I can’t believe the voters weren’t consulted

I bet Jim Porter’s wife and daughters are furious with him because of this

If this doesn’t make the voters complain to Jim Porter I don’t what does

We should all bombard the Pro Football Hall of Fame with emails asking them to change the process

Andy p on February 6, 2025 at 11:57 pm

This is all Deion Sanders fault if hadn’t sounded off on the Pro Football Hall of Fame none of this would have happened

Brian wolf on February 7, 2025 at 5:37 am

It wasnt Sanders fault. There were negative pundits going back to the Centennial Class. I cynically said at that time that putting in more seniors was a trade-off to get Tagliabue and Kraft elected and Kraft still cant make it.

Too many players simply fell through the cracks and rather than correcting wrongs, the HOF decided to add more non-players/coaches. Recentism and media campaigns on the part of voters and advocates, didnt help the matter, which is why we get yesterdays result.

I predict we will see at least two more small classes before they change the procedures for election again. Lets face it, controversy brings more media attention for the HOF, who milk it for all its worth with and for television.

In a strange way, Eric Allen getting elected made it seem like two seniors getting elected because his eligibility was closing fast but that didnt help a deserving, Maxie Baughan.

Jeff on February 7, 2025 at 9:13 am

It’s a strong class – all four deserving, just a missed opportunity. I though Woodson had a better chance than Eric Allen but maybe it was a case of who’s closer to the senior abyss. Good thinking, if so. If these rules stay in place, the logjams are going to pile up, the senior pool is going to get much larger and we’re going to see a lot of really deserving players fail to get in.

I think the fact that Holmgren didn’t make it is probably a head-scratcher for a lot of voters. Personally, I think he’s deserving but I wouldnt be heartbroken if he never made it – I feel like they’ve watered down the coaching wing a bit. That said, it seemed like a lot of voters viewed him as a total lock, and pretty much a rubber stamp. Maybe they didn’t quite understand the impact of the rule change (and I hope they loudly complain about it).

Paul on February 7, 2025 at 9:43 am

Congrats to all 4 – its a great honor and all are deserving, but smallest class since 2005 is only going to make it harder for others on current ballot, and when we add 2-3 more likely 1st ballot each of the next three years-the math of getting even from remaining 2025 finalist to eventual election just got a lot harder plus attempt thoughts of seeing players like Webb and Watters-running out of time as moderns-getting from semi-finalist to finalist next few years-forget it.

Just look at potential 2026 modern semi-finalists to see how hard the math is…lets say all 22 from 2025 return, then we add Brees,Fitz,Rivers,Witten,Gore, Pouncy..that would equal 29 semi-finalists in 2026, sure we could and likely will get ties but still thats horrible math for the chances for many on that list.. And if we go one step further and look at potential final 15 for 2026..12 return leaving only 3 slots for those 6 new first ballot (and there are no ties allowed at 115 finalist stage)-good luck there, not saying all 6 are new finalists but enough will be to kick out a returning 2025 finalist.

I do think the Board over corrected (and yes was not just Deion but he was the most profile with repeated calls to reduce class sizes, so yea I have no problem calling him our for that)

And what I am reading from some voters is anger and definite look to pressure Hall Board to at least increase min of moderns to 4, perhaps some but less to increase others from 1 min to 2 min-but will have to wait and see. And publicly voters are going to be careful not to go to hard on the Hall.

And thanks again for all this discussion, all your great comments and inputs to the board here over the last year as we prepared for 2025 election. Lets take a few more days on here to process all the results and consider implications for 2026, and then like the Spring forecasting Groundhogs of last weekend, we can return to our hibernation during our spring/summer offseason only to stick our heads back up in September to start it all over again!

Paul on February 7, 2025 at 11:53 am

and ponder this…. here is just one fictional timeline of how 3 moderns per year vs 4 per year could look 2026-2028 (note one can move some around, debate order, add others etc…. none of these are intended as true predictions..as only point here is look at the logjam continuing with 3 per year creates)..and one could certainly also model what continuing with 5 moderns per year would have done…waits for non 1st ballot locks that may have been 3-5+ years now looking more like 7+

Future elections scenarios 2026-29

If stays at min 3 modern per year

2026 Brees/Fitz/LukeK

2027 Gronk/AP/Holt

2028 Brady/Watt/Woodson

2029 Donald/JKelce/BenR

If changes to min 4 modern per year

2026 Brees/Fitz/LukeK/AdamV

2027 Gronk/AP/Holt/WAnderson

2028 Brady/Watt/Woodson/Yanda

2029 Donald/JKelce/BenR/Sherman

Brian wolf on February 7, 2025 at 12:25 pm

Good job Paul … they are committing to cinch players, not queues for now. Yet you cant let players like Witten, Big Ben, Gore, Thomas, etc sit for long …

Paul on February 7, 2025 at 12:45 pm

yea but 3 a year (and even if Hall amends to min 4 modern per year-which I suspect they will eventually agree to), those you name Brian are going to wait longer… would have been 3-5 years, now more likely 7+..just a reality those of interested in Hall and advocate for candidates need to adjust to..and the chances for the likes of Webb, Watters etc…current/recent additions to semi-finalists (and others running out of time and need to get to that stage as start)-are doomed to senior pool. heck Woodson is in the final 10 queue again this election but with 7 others-instead of 5, has three years left as modern and going to be real tight for voters to get him in, even though I suspect like EAllen they are are of his timeline and would look to push him through by 2028

justin on February 7, 2025 at 2:32 pm

Paul: Well said about taking some time and writing our thoughts. As I’ve done in past years, I’ll be writing a summary of my thoughts on the whole year soon, but not today. Right now, I’ll just note that I love the four person class–all wonderful additions to the HOF. But, there are now at least two “missing” HOFers amount Kuechly, Vinatieri, Holt, and Anderson (my guesses are Vinatieri and Holt, but it could honestly be any of the four). The Hall should admit its mistake and then expand the next two classes to have a minimum of six moderns to make up for these lost slots and then revert back to five going forward. I’ll explain and elaborate on my thinking and proposal soon as I have a compromise in mind that should make both “small hall” and “large hall” camps happy. Just need to think it through a little more.

Brian wolf on February 7, 2025 at 5:09 pm

We will see Paul … like Justin said, they will revert back to five moderns sooner rather than later. I feel by the time Brady is inducted.

Boknows on February 7, 2025 at 5:47 pm

They need to admit this mistake right now and revert back next year.

Andy p on February 7, 2025 at 7:25 pm

Boknows totally

Andy p on February 7, 2025 at 7:27 pm

Does anyone else agree with me we need to bombard the Pro Football Hall of Fame with emails asking them to change the process

Boknows on February 7, 2025 at 11:21 pm

How about 15 down to 8 then a ballot to choose 5 with the top 4/5 gaining election regardless of vote totals. Let’s be honest. Anyone in the Top 10 has historically been elected eventually.

Same for Seniors and coaches etc. Top 2 or 3 from 5 should be automatically elected.

They’ve created these new committees and out of all three elected just one candidate. What a waste of time. These committees have already carefully selected their candidates as worthy.

One thing also is much smaller classes will mean smaller crowds and that will hurt local businesses in Canton especially hotels and restaurants.

justin on February 8, 2025 at 1:39 pm

Like many others, I am deeply disappointed by the (entirely predictable) results of the Hall’s new voting procedures, but I’m not sure the “sky is falling” sentiments of some on the internet are entirely fair. There were always going to be growing pains with any new system, and it is incumbent on the voters to change their voting patterns if they are unhappy with the results. There is nothing wrong with a voter saying, for example, “it is now time that we as a panel prioritize Torry Holt so that in the future we can get to Willie Anderson and Reggie Wayne.” This is the exact same as the old “respect the queue” refrain.

Before getting to my “solution,” I think it is important to remember the “old days” when the electorate rarely elected a full slate of candidates. I can’t emphasize enough that it was very, very rare. Back then, the last “up or down” vote was anything put a rubber stamp. Candidates were often voted down by what Dr. Z termed “the silent assassins,” voters who never expressed any reservations about a candidate but still failed to vote for him when the “up or down” vote occurred. Think of this as the football equivalent of the idiot (or idiots) who failed to vote for Jeter and Ichiro out of some misplaced belief that it disrespects Babe Ruth to have a unanimous Baseball HOFer. These “silent assassins” believed that they were keeping the Hall “exclusive,” but they were simple delaying the inevitable (except for poor Bob Kuechenberg) and creating the seniors backlog that ironically seems to be one the driving forces behind the year’s new misplaced voting procedures.

While partial lists have been floating in articles this week, here is what my research indicates as a complete list of the candidates who failed to be elected after progressing to the final “up or down” vote: Dante Lavelli (2), Joe Schmidt, Night Train Lane, Jim Taylor, Rosie Brown, Tony Morabito, Jim Ringo (2), Weeb Ewbank (2), Willie Davis, Clark Shaughnessy, Paul Hornung (2), Don Maynard (2), Pete Rozelle (2), Doug Atkins, Sid Gillman, Joe Namath (2), Willie Lanier, Fran Tarkenton (2), Len Dawson, Bob Griese (2), Art Shell, Ted Hendricks, John Mackey, Al Davis, Charlie Joyner, Tom Mack, Jackie Smith, Dan Dierdorf (2), Dwight Stephenson (3), Mike Haynes, Lynn Swann (3), Ozzie Newsome, Dan Rooney, Howie Long, Jack Youngblood, Bill Parcells, Bob Kuechenberg, Harry Carson (2), Rayfield Wright, Michael Irvin, and Paul Tagliabue.

Read that list again. Arguably the two best CBs (at least before Deion), the greatest TE, numerous members of the 1960s Packers, the greatest center (three times!), and at least nine members of the 100th Anniversary Team (including some who were elected unanimously). What a waste! Think of all the HOFers we are missing because some electors somehow thought someone like Joe Schmidt wasn’t a HOFer despite his 2 NFL championships, 8 first team all pros, and 10 pro bowls! And remember, this wasn’t a matter of prioritizing another player over Schmidt (or any of the others), but voting them down when it was a simple “up or down” vote.

No one wants to go back to that era of HOF voting. But I think there are some individuals who believe the influx of seniors (again largely a product of the above wasted slots) and the “automatic” five-moderns-a-year has cheapened the Hall. Let me be crystal clear that I’m not one of those people. I’m a “big hall” guy. I love that Sam Mills is a HOFer while acknowledging that he is a nuanced candidate. But that doesn’t mean that I think everyone should be a HOFer, including some HOFers (although some of the individuals I’ve been most skeptical of have become some of the best ambassadors for the game, league, and Hall). Importantly, I recognize that reasonable minds can disagree, and different viewpoints should be weighed and considered. Afterall, if I believe, as a “big hall” guy, that there are some questionable HOFers, I recognize that “small hall” guys have significant concerns. And while we can never make everyone happy as to the results, there are procedural changes that can (and should) be implemented.

Therefore, I’ve come up with the following modified system for the modern candidates that I think addresses the legitimate concerns of the “small hall” guys, while encouraging the election of worthy HOFers as soon as reasonably possible:

1) Continue the screening committee (which did seem to resurrect worthy candidates);
2) Continue to have the 25 (plus ties) semifinalists lists;
3) Continue to have 15 finalists (although I would go back to allowing ties to get in the room);
4) Continue to have the individual presentations for each candidate;
5) After each presentation have a “up or down” vote (i.e., is this candidate a HOFer caliber player);
6) After all 15 presentations, reveal those candidates who received 80% (or whatever percentage you want) of the “up or down” vote;
7) If 15 to 11 candidates received the necessary 80%, election continues as it used to with reductions to 10, then 5, and the final 5 being HOFers;
8) If 10 to 6 candidates received the necessary 80%, election continues with a reduction vote to 5, and the final 5 being HOFers;
9) If 5 or less candidates received the necessary 80%, then the election is concluded with the remaining candidates being HOFers (with perhaps a minimum number of three or four).

I don’t realistically think that the “up or down” vote will ever result in less than five candidates being elected, but if it did, so be it.

I advocate for this procedure for a number of reasons.

First, it eliminates the possibility of a “tyranny of the minority” situation where a candidate with a strong minority following progresses to the final 5 under the old system and is elected because the entire electorate is disinclined to vote down a “final 5.” In short, the criticism of the “automatic” five per year is gone.

Second, it eliminates the mathematical problem inherent in the current system’s vote for 5 of 7 (with 80% needed). I might be wrong, but I don’t actually believe that any of the votes in this year’s final 7 was a “nay” for any candidate. It was instead a “preference” for someone else. Any of the final 7 would have been a worthy HOF. Therefore, Holt, Anderson, Kuechly, and Vinatieri weren’t “voted down,” they just weren’t preferred compared to Eric Allen, Jared Allen, and Gates (after the potential use of tiebreakers no less). My revised system already guarantees that the final 15, 7, 5, whatever have survived an “up or down” vote of 80%. From that point, it is simply a matter of “ordering” the candidates to find out who gets in this year and who waits for a future year. This system also eliminates relativism—meaning a “weak” candidate doesn’t get in because the ballot is “weak.” Each candidate is initially vetted individually, not compared to his fellow candidates.

Third, this system also allows voters to vote their conscience without fear of “wasting” a final 5 spot. If there are complaints about the modern election, I believe it is that voters were unwilling for the prior 17 years to go back to the “old days” of voting down a final 5. In fact, in at least one year, the final 5 “up or down” vote didn’t even occur. My revised system guarantees that every candidate survives an initial “up or down” vote before the winnowing or prioritization process begins. And each voter can treat the “up or down” vote however he or she wants. For example, if they want to apply a higher standard to “first ballot” guys, so be it. If they want to prioritize one player per position, that is their right. In effect, this system borrows the best aspects of Baseball’s HOF selection process by adopting a single “up or down” vote for each candidate (subject to Baseball’s 10 votes per year limit), while keeping the best aspect of Football’s (the election meeting and accompanying discussions). And of course, the votes don’t need to be static year to year. Voters can and should change their mind if presented with new information. As an exercise, I went ahead and voted on this year’s finalists (remember I’m a “big hall” guy, but I also decided that I would only vote “yes” for first ballot guys that I thought should be worthy of that perceived “honor”):

My 10 yes’s in 2025: Eric Allen, Jared Allen, Willie Anderson, Jahri Evans, Antonio Gates, Torry Holt, Steve Smith, Terrell Suggs, Reggie Wayne, and Darren Woodson.
My 5 no’s in 2025: Luke Kuechley, Eli Manning, Fred Taylor, Adam Vinatieri, and Marshal Yanda.

Fourth, this system could have the additional consequence of cycling guys through the room—a common complaint of some on the panel. In short, all electors will know which of the guys they support don’t have sufficiently wide appeal to ever be elected (i.e., anyone eliminated in the first “up or down” vote). This doesn’t necessarily mean that an elector should abandon those candidates, but it does mean that he or she needs to better explain their support. And if they can’t, then he or she should shift their support to another candidate who has broader appeal.

With regard to the non-moderns, the same system could be used. However, unless the same non-moderns are nominated year over year, any system that makes voters choose between highly qualified candidates is a serious problem. Consider the following hypothetical group for 2026—seniors: Albert Lewis, Lester Hayes, Bob Kuechenberg; coach: Belichick; contributor: Kraft. All three of these seniors are worthy of the HOF but even under my proposed system two could fail to gain election because they were up against one of the three greatest coaches of all time and an incredibly powerful owner. Yet, if the same three seniors were nominated against Holmgren and Hay from this year or a hypothetical Dan Reeves and Bud Adams from a future year, all three would likely be elected under my system. The solution to this problem is very difficult. The year a non-modern is nominated should not be outcome determinative of whether that non-modern is elected. Instead, each non-modern candidate should stand on his (or her) own record. But unless candidates are renominated each year by their committees, the hall is literally pitting potential HOFers against each other (not entirely unlike Deion’s “upper” room idea). Like Holt, Anderson, Kuechly, and Vinatieri, this year’s non-moderns weren’t necessarily “voted down,” they were simply not preferred. The one benefit of my procedure would be that the committees would be informed (based on who survived the initial “up or down” vote) which of their nominees had enough support to potentially be elected.

Finally, without some change to the non-modern election process, the senior committee would be better served to either decline to nominate a third candidate or nominate someone so obviously unqualified that he would not receive any of the precious votes necessary to get to 80%. Any process that encourages such obviously disingenuous gamesmanship is fundamentally flawed and should be strapped immediately. A potential solution would be the following: any nominee that survives the 80% initial vote is automatically renominated for the next year’s pool of five. But I’d prefer they do something like Baseballs eras committee with set schedules. For example, in years ending with “0” or “5” there would be one senior and one contributor nominated; in years ending with “2,” “4,” “7,” and “9” there would be one senior and one coach nominated; in years ending with “1,” “3,” “6,” and “8” there would be two seniors resulting in the following elections for the next decade:

2025 – 1 senior / 1 contributor
2026 – 2 seniors
2027 – 1 senior / 1 coach
2028 – 2 seniors
2029 – 1 senior / 1 coach
2030 – 1 senior / 1 contributor
2031 – 2 seniors
2032 – 1 senior / 1 coach
2033 – 2 seniors
2034 – 1 senior / 1 coach

Such a ten year cycle could result in up to 14 seniors, 4 coaches, and 2 contributors. That feels about right with the backlogs. That said, there is no way the Hall could go a decade without changing its voting procedures—for better or worse.

Welcome an

justin on February 8, 2025 at 1:40 pm

Welcome any thoughts and feedback

Andy p on February 8, 2025 at 10:46 pm

I’m happy for Eric Allen Jared Allen Antonio Gates and Sterling Sharpe but I’d feel better if Torry Holt Darren Woodson and Mike Holmgren were part of the class

Look on the bright side we’ll have a fast induction ceremony

I hope all the voters complain to Jim Porter and he has no choice but to go back to the old process

Brian wolf on February 8, 2025 at 11:29 pm

It works out well for Vinny and Kuechly who dont have to worry about upcoming players like Pouncey, Witten, Gore and others bumping them out of the automatic, top 7 finalist queue …

Bill on February 9, 2025 at 7:50 am

I believe they will revert back after another 2 cycles. Three years of complaints would do it.

Paul on February 9, 2025 at 12:53 pm

One of the fundamental issues here is that Board likely forced Porter to create rules to cause smaller classes..as President, and also the Board, for a non-profit 501c(3) they have fiduciary responsibility to ensure the PFHOF is financially viable…one of both didn’t consider or think though fully (in both cases, that’s morally and ethically wrong) revenue impact smaller class would have on Hall as enshrinement week tickets events remains a significant source of their revenues.

Second, Porter and the Hall staff failed in their duty and responsibility to at least consult with the voters before changes went to the Board, and when approved needed to communicate will all votes the new rules, provide them copies or summaries, offer virtual meeting to discuss BEFORE initial voting process started, yet none of that was done. We have public comments from some voters before the election meeting unaware of impact of changes, they found out during meeting, and we have others making public comments after the announcement surprised about outcome (only 3+1 elected) and angry about outcome but also not even aware in advance of that possibility.

Voters need to complain en masse directly to the Board about need for course correction, and once Board sees financial impact with smaller class=fewer paid attendees=less revenue, be more aware of their duties and if Porter and Hall staff did not take the time and effort to be aware of the new math and communicate that to the Board when new rules were proposed to them at August Board meeting (that several others on social media pointed out soon after rules were announced, was not that hard to see a class of just 4 was coming) some working for Hall, perhaps even Porter, needs to be fired.

And we have been over this again and again, but bears repeating here… there is no going back to 8+ member classes with 3 seniors or any other reset of the categories anytime soon..Hall made decision that especially the centennial class and then followed by nine elected in 2023 was step to fair in terms of giving the honor significance and value and being exclusive-and yes from a few voters (who support seniors) it was the large number of seniors that got some PFHOFers, voters and others in media focused on too large classes.

But yes I think we will get a course correction, best we could hope for would be mins of 4(5)+2 and that in place for class of 2026-but may not come that soon or may simply be to increase moderns to 4. Thats the likely solution, doubt Hall would look at anything more structured, complex or gets to 7+ class with 2+seniors/coach/contributor. Its just not in the cards folks.

and for now (assuming rules are not changed for class of 2026) it looks like some interesting outcomes for semi-finalists, finalists and those elected-as unlike 2025 we will have strong contenders-two in fact-for first ballot…math still likely does not get us to 4 moderns, so its going to be Brees, Fitz + one of LukeK/AdamV/WAnderson…. enjoy!

Brian wolf on February 9, 2025 at 3:18 pm

Like you said Paul, there is no reason why there cant be six inductees and Justin had a lot of sound suggestions for the future voting. Send that in writing to the Atlantic, Justin! This HOF seems to rewrite the rules and procedures every two years and 2027 wont be any different. Only this time there will be a backlash about Patriots getting elected with Belichick, Gronk and Brady, who I feel all will be first ballot, while Kraft gets even more bitter.

It seems like every year we all get excited for the big induction announcements only to be disappointed once they get here. Are we too fickle as subjective football fans or just disappointed that voters cant or wont do a better job? Even when Howley FINALLY got elected, I was underwhelmed by Riley and Klecko, who had great careers. I guess we all have to be content with the guys we wanted to get elected, but every time I think about Jones, Tagliabue, Bowlen, DeBartolo, Beathard, Polian and other non-players getting voted in, in burns me inside that a deserving player didnt get those opportunities. No wonder we dont hear from Bachslunch, Rasputin, Corey and BSLO anymore. Fans get frustrated …

Brian wolf on February 9, 2025 at 4:35 pm

Picking the Eagles tonight 30-24 over KC …

DeVonta Smith MVP

The Jets are moving on from Rodgers. Could the Vikings try to replace Darnold with him? Will any team try to obtain him, or will he retire?

Andy p on February 9, 2025 at 4:49 pm

I bet the voters are already complaining to Jim Porter

I’ll just say this running the Pro Football Hall of Fame isn’t easy nor is the National Baseball Hall of Fame

Jim Porter and the board have the power to fix this and they most certainly should

Andy p on February 9, 2025 at 4:55 pm

Brian when it’s time to present Bill Belichick and Tom Brady to the selection committee Ron Borges the New England representative will just get up and say Bill Belichick in 2026 and Tom Brady in 2028 and that’ll be it

Tony - Zoneblitz on February 9, 2025 at 6:00 pm

@Brian – No, the Vikings will not replace Darnold with Rodgers. At least they better not. Trolling them with Favre was fun. Rodgers…no thanks.

Brian wolf on February 9, 2025 at 7:45 pm

Haha … I understand Tony but everyone thinks O’Connell can revive any career. Favre did take them to the NFC Championship game but Rodgers will ask for too much anyway.

Youre right, Andy P, these obvious choices, including Gronk, will keep the inductees low until changes happen again.

Class Of 2026

Wishlist

Woodson
Brees
Kuechly
Witten
Belichick
Wistert

Prediction

Brees
Fitz
Vinatieri
Belichick
K Anderson

Boknows on February 9, 2025 at 9:29 pm

Brian – I’d swap Anderson for Kraft and hope they add at least a 6th name with another player (modern or senior).

Dominant performance by the Eagles. Congrats!!

Brian wolf on February 9, 2025 at 9:38 pm

Yep, a new champion and Hurts and Fangio helped redeem the team from their 2023 collapse. The Chiefs offensive line was man-handled.

Can the Chiefs get back next year?
We will see how they respond.

Andy p on February 9, 2025 at 11:28 pm

Clark Judge wrote this article for Talk of Fame saying the Pro Football Hall of Fame should get rid of the contributor category

https://talkoffametwo.com/nfl/hall-of-fame-class-2025

How are Robert Kraft and Clint Murchison going to elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame if the Pro Football Hall of Fame gets rid of the contributor category

Andy p on February 9, 2025 at 11:29 pm

I have no clue what Jim Porter and the board were thinking when they made these changes

Andy p on February 10, 2025 at 2:01 am

If you go to the page listing the voters for the Pro Football Hall of Fame you’ll see a section saying at large open I emailed the Pro Football Hall of Fame asking if I could take it I told them I study film do research and know the game and I’m not a journalist or writer but I’m an expert they responded asking me for some background which I did they asked for a resume which I told them I had but it was outdated I told them what a did I’m a greeter for the Atlanta Braves and I work at a wine and spirits when I’m not working there I’m a football expert and my knowledge of football is outstanding they didn’t respond so I’ll take that as a no I’d be a good voter though

Boknows on February 10, 2025 at 3:16 am

Barkley broke two of Terrel Davis’ records.

Most rushing yards season (incl playoffs) 2,504 (2,476)
Most scrimmage yads season (incl playoffs) 2,857 (2,762)

Paul on February 10, 2025 at 9:33 am

Since when did combined regular season+playoff stats become a thing??? Seems like a recent media creation and not official NFL record stat.

AndyP its pretty clear that the Board (having heard from Deion and others) wanted smaller classes, unfortunately seems like no one at Hall considered the math implications from the new process they created before it was enacted. There is a group who fill classes of 8+ have diluted the honor (unfortunately for us much of that concern focused on large number of seniors elected since 2020)…they won the PR battle with the Hall, over many of the voters who had no say but many high profile voters including Tony Dungy are pushing back-lets hope we get course correction even if just one more modern slot, it would help moving more to election and lesson the modern and senior backlogs.

As to contributors, its not that Judge is against them but he does raise a good point-why continue to have as standalone category if the full committee isn’t interested in electing any-its a wasted slot that could help a deserving senior among the 5.

Brian wolf on February 10, 2025 at 9:58 am

Whether official record or not, Barkley has had the best one-year free agency season in NFL History.
His season actually goes beyond statistics, because he not only helped a team win it all but proved that the veteran running back in general has value, depending upon the player himself, rather than his age.

Derrick Henry had an amazing season himself, despite being 31 years of age, yet will only average 8 million dollars on his deal. The position is more important than people think and once a back proves himself, he deserves his second or even third payday. Its actually nice for Barkley to take the headlines from a QB these days.

The Eagles defensive line did a great job last night. Josh Sweat should have been MVP but Hurts ran the offense well. His only mistake came on the interception where the center let Bolton come in unblocked to hit him as he threw the ball.Hurts has to love this victory after last years thumping by the Bucs in the playoffs.

Paul on February 10, 2025 at 10:32 am

not denying his great season–just seems like a media construct that I first noticed (and others online commented on) with Cooper Kupp a few seasons ago

and yea its a copycat league, look for teams to again build the lines and not be as unwilling to pick a RB in first round if its a high need

Andy p on February 11, 2025 at 1:34 am

I can’t believe we waited months and this is the class we got don’t get me wrong I’m happy for Eric Allen Jared Allen Antonio Gates Sterling Sharpe but I can’t believe there was only 4 it should have been 7 with Torry Holt Darren Woodson and Mike Holmgren joining them

It is so abundantly that this is not going to work it’s been clear for a while for me But now the voters are coming around there are no excuses why the Pro Football Hall of Fame to go back to the old process

Bring it back bring it back

Andy p on February 11, 2025 at 1:35 am

We should all picket in front of the Pro Football Hall of Fame asking them to change the process

Brian wolf on February 11, 2025 at 9:56 am

I admire your passion and having the balls to apply for the HOF itself, Andy P–though it wouldnt be for a voting position–but this stuff is really no big deal. Fans and historians have been rolling with the changes for years now. Back in 2010, when I was trying to find ways to influence voting for the Hall, I had no idea that this site, PFJ, TalkOfFame Network and PFRA, even excisted, and was happy these sites let me join and comment. When I first got on this site around 2019, I couldnt believe all the impassioned fans and commenters that knew everything about the HOF and voting process. I learned alot from these guys, and miss hearing from a lot of commenters that had been on here since like, 2008. I feel once their subjective players and choices made the Hall, and for some … didnt, they let go and realized there is more to life, and we just adjust to changes.

NFL football has been a part of my life since I was ten years old. I guess as the sport “evolves” I still hold onto its past and history through these sites and rooting for players and coaches to make this Hall Of Fame. Hopefully, I can visit again, when I missed my chance with Chuck Howley’s election. Its hard to ever let it go, despite aging, jobs and relationships …

Brian wolf on February 11, 2025 at 10:02 am

Exsisted … my bad.

yt on February 11, 2025 at 1:57 pm

For the past 2 years the hall rejected the 2 best candidates Parker and Hay. It seems that Canton looks to Cooperstown for it’s inspiration in not electing the person responsible for putting their hall in their respective locations. The only problem is Cooperstown didn’t put in Abner Doubleday because his “accomplishment” is a myth, and Hay’s was critical to football

Brian wolf on February 11, 2025 at 2:55 pm

I still cant understand why Baughan and Holmgren werent elected? You figured everyone could agree on one if not both but maybe Tyrer or Hay took away necessary votes? Were they then lumped with the moderns after the cutdown to three? Who were those three?

Paul on February 11, 2025 at 3:25 pm

5 seniors/coach/contributor are presented and voted on separately with min 1 and max 3 (not sure what you mean by lumped together with moderns???) its likely the math that causes Baughan and Holmgrem to fail to hit the required 80%-due to vote splitting.

Could Like this>>

49 voters x 3 names on their ballot= 147 total votes, need 40 for 80%

Sharpe 45+elected
Holmgren 38
Baughan 34
Tyrer 18
Hay 12

Basically strong support for a 2nd senior candidate can pull votes from the coach candidate (or other way..strong coach/contributor can draw voters from deserving 2nd senior-yet neither get to min 40 needed to be elected.

That “math” (if not changed) likely means 1 out of group of 5 will be elected in future years. For example 5 ballot for class of 2026 could look like 3 seniors, BillB and RKraft..could look like:

(lets assuming full committee of 50 x 3 -150 votes)

BillB 48
RKraft 40
Senior1 32
Senior2 15
Senior3 15

Andy p on February 11, 2025 at 7:52 pm

Brian what do you mean it wouldn’t be for a voting position and this stuff is no big deal

Jeff on February 11, 2025 at 8:03 pm

Thanks, Paul – I hope the voters are seeing the vote-splitting issue as a bug that needs fixing. The board must have seen it as a feature, thinking that if a senior isn’t “elite” enough to get 80% of a split vote, then he shouldn’t be in. I think it stinks to high heaven. We’ll be lucky to get one senior elected per year, and there’s a good chance that in years like next year, there won’t be a single senior in the class.

I didn’t think there was much of a chance that Hay would be elected (although he should have been). But a player like Maxie Baughan getting rolled over drives me up the wall – if you’re not going to elect a guy like that, then why have senior nominees? In any prior year, Baughan would’ve been a shoe-in regardless of recency bias. Even voters who knew little about him probably would’ve voted for him on the merits after hearing his case, and his (extremely strong) case had never been heard in that meeting. The rules changed and the rug got pulled out from under him and it’ll be the same story from now on.

It’s frustrating as someone who enjoys NFL history and has viewed the Hall of Fame as a special place since visiting with my father as a kid way back in the 80s. Even as far back as the 90s I didn’t understand why there were so many classes with only 4-5 people and so many great players (in a sport with so many positions and eras) that weren’t in. For every brief step forward they take to seemingly improve work on the backlog, they quickly take two steps back and make it worse. I feel like if they hadn’t added that silly contributor category in 2015 and just kept the status quo, we would have been better off.

Andy p on February 11, 2025 at 10:51 pm

Jeff silly contributor category I don’t agree with that then how would Bill Polian Ron Wolf Eddie DeBartolo Jerry Jones Bobby Beathard Pat Bowlen Steve Sabol Paul Tagliabue George Young and Bill Nunn have gotten in and how are Robert Kraft and Clint Murchison supposed to get in if there’s no contributor category how would we have better off with no contributor category

Brian wolf on February 12, 2025 at 8:52 am

Like you already know Andy P, the voters are media members that cover the teams. Unless you cover a team for a newspaper or outlet in Atlanta, and can get a voter credential, you can only do a write-in vote to the HOF. Thats why most voters are loyal to players on their beats or watch. Most simply dont know or care about NFL history. Only the players they have seen. Thats why its no big deal, its too subjective a process, whether fair or not. On the PFRA as a member, you can vote and be a part of the HOVG election process, but even that can be frustrating. I feel my voting helped get Tony Latone elected however, and I am proud of that.

I also feel if enough people do write-in votes to the HOF, it keeps a candidate from being forgottenly left off a preliminary list, which still helps their chances but until more historians with integrity are a part of the January HOF voting process, more recent candidates will have their chance over deserving players from decades ago.

To answer your question about contributors, they have to be part of the nomination voting process like they were before 2014. Same as coaches, based on being part of the ballot like players. The contributor category was created to get more owners and executives elected. Most didnt play or coach and need to wait like any other player.

Paul on February 12, 2025 at 10:40 am

I suspect contributors will not disappear but folded in with coaches (may be one compromise to get min 4 moderns or min 2 seniors set while keeping classes to 6 or 7 max (no more 8 or 9).

Plus there are national media on the PFHOF selection committee (who are not market based) and increasingly as national and local sports media declines-fewer covering NFL-the rise of online/social media/podcast types are increasing, more are of those are voters…BUT they all have decade plus writing and reporting about the NFL as professional careers…..the real needed shift, and I suspect its coming soon, is to add non-media/historians to the 50 member committee.

Boknows on February 12, 2025 at 12:50 pm

It’s crazy you need 80% approval while competing with other candidates whereas before it was a straight 80% yes or no as a standalone vote. It’s totally unbalanced.

If they are going to keep this system then the 80% figure must be reduced to something more realistic. Just choosing the top 4/15 for modems and 2/5 for seniors/coaches/contributors by total votes would also be improvement from this year’s fiasco if they are persistent in reducing class sizes.

Paul on February 12, 2025 at 2:29 pm

yea its possible that another easy fix is to drop min vote% required to 75 or 70% while keeping 5 max modern and 3 max others…one of those maths could do better to ensure class of 4+2

Boknows on February 12, 2025 at 4:50 pm

We’ll never know but someone will know what percentage the 4th and 5th placed modern era candidate received.

Paul on February 12, 2025 at 5:00 pm

Well yea the accounting firm that collects ballots (and perhaps Hall President) but no else knows

Andy p on February 12, 2025 at 7:50 pm

Brian I know that I daydream about being a Pro Football Hall of Fame voter

Brian wolf on February 12, 2025 at 10:07 pm

Haha … I do too Andy P. We all wish we could get our favorites voted in.
I used to want to write for the Tennessean or ESPN for the Titans but I never had the credentials and experience in journalism–not to mention the connections–to get the job. I should have went more for it when I was younger, I dabbled in screenplay writing as well, but the bills had to get paid. That and keeping a damn car running … haha

Andy p on February 13, 2025 at 4:40 pm

I’ve never been angry with the Pro Football Hall of Fame but I am now

Andy p on February 13, 2025 at 4:44 pm

If the old process had been in place Torry Holt Darren Woodson and Mike Holmgren would have been elected

Andy p on February 13, 2025 at 4:44 pm

It’s official the changes were a mistake you don’t treat people like this

Boknows on February 13, 2025 at 6:35 pm

Woodson would not have been elected this time. He didn’t make the cut down to 7. Under the old system he’d have a great chance in 2026 with Eric Allen no longer splitting the DB vote.

Paul on February 13, 2025 at 8:25 pm

I suspect Woodson is looking at 2027 or 2028 (last year as modern)

Boknows on February 13, 2025 at 9:29 pm

Seeing how much of a late push was given to Eric Allen, I think that actually bodes well for Woodson’s chances.

Andy p on February 14, 2025 at 1:24 am

I’ve made my decision unless the Pro Football Hall of Fame changes the process I’m not going to Canton in 2028 for Tom Brady’s Hall of Fame induction you don’t treat people like this

Andy p on February 14, 2025 at 1:25 am

Paul I know there’s no simple answer to this but why do you think the Pro Football Hall of Fame is struggling financially you mentioned it on Twitter or X

Paul on February 14, 2025 at 7:29 am

I don’t think I stated the PFHOF was struggling financially-was just pointing out that revenues from paid ticketed events during enshrinement week is very important to their operations and fewer enshrined is going to mean fewer attendees and less revenue. Was just surprised why perhaps this wasn’t a stronger consideration by the Hall board in their decision to elect small classes. As the Hall has relatively small annual profit margin. It could be the financial impact of smaller class this year could influence change of heart by the Board

Paul on February 14, 2025 at 9:20 am

And yes it’s complicated. Hall was once a very small scale enterprise and operations – for its initial four decades. They have since increased ticketed events, leasing space, hosting events, youth HS college football games etc… to move beyond just entrance ticket sales and enshrinement events (which also have expanded plus increased prices) as revenue sources Then failed effort to create Hall Village as a PFHOF led projects (they couldn’t raise funds so a few years ago that entire development project was taken over by outside entity – who themselves are struggling to finance completion of recent aspects of the Village Project – but at least now the actual PFHOF doesn’t have financial liability tied to Village). Also several years ago the NFL gave direct cash influx to support Hall operations and Hall has also secured several large donations (example Ralph Wilson family and owners of Saints -hence renaming of stadium). So they have diversified activities that generate revenue but worth noting they are still a relatively small financial operation, not really flush with cash reserves and run close to a balanced annual budget. None is problematic in terms of future survival but worth dismissing suggestions often made that Hall makes huge profit or that they receive sustained annual or frequent cash from NFL

Brian wolf on February 14, 2025 at 10:12 am

You have to go Andy P. Once Brady is in –and it will be a huge speech and event like Peyton Manning’s induction–you will be fired up knowing Belichick, Gronk and possibly even Vinny or Kraft, will already be enshrined.

I actually hope Witten and Woodson go in together, but I hope to visit again soon for either player.

Could Rodgers be inducted in 2030?
Not sure he is coming back, unless maybe a team like SF or Minn gives him a shot? I wonder if he would go to the Giants or Steelers? Would he go to the Colts in a weaker division?

Paul on February 14, 2025 at 10:52 am

I project Woodson for 2027/2028..projecting Witten to 2030 or beyond (as will wait until after Gronk is first ballot in 2027, and 2028 (with Brady/Watt,carryover from other 2025-2027 finalists) would be tight fit for Witten if we are still talking just 2-4 modern slots.
But does make a huge difference is we start to see 4 modern rather than 3 per year.

NOT predictions (as some names can be moved around to different years, perhaps few others in mix) but just shows a timeline of outcomes where 3 per year looks a lot different if 4 per year, as current returning final 10 is a solid group but going to take a while to just get them elected, then add the 1st ballot locks….and fight among voters around Eli case could take several years to resolve..again all of this would be much different if 5 moderns per year was an option but seems very unlikely to me that in the next several years Board will revert back to that

Future elections scenarios 2026-29

If stays at min 3 modern per year

2026 Brees/Fitz/LukeK

2027 Gronk/AP/Holt

2028 Brady/Watt/Woodson

2029 Donald/JKelce/BenR

If changes to min 4 modern per year

2026 Brees/Fitz/LukeK/AdamV

2027 Gronk/AP/Holt/WAnderson

2028 Brady/Watt/Woodson/Yanda

2029 Donald/JKelce/BenR/Sherman

Paul on February 14, 2025 at 10:56 am

Oh just wanted to wrap up my previous financial tread with comment that even with smaller classes (that unless we are talking Tom Brady) that will likely see fewer paid attendees at the many paid ticket events during enshrinement week, I am not suggesting that Hall will go bankrupt, just that finances and revenues may be more challenging.

Andy p on February 14, 2025 at 7:38 pm

Brian you right and I will I got time to think about it

Andy p on February 14, 2025 at 7:41 pm

Does anyone else agree with me you don’t treat people like this

Boknows on February 14, 2025 at 7:55 pm

The whole Canton economy would be affected.

Brian wolf on February 15, 2025 at 12:09 pm

Alot of rumblings as well about this election on TOFTWO articles. John Turney discussed the shock and silence of the other journalists at the NFL Awards presentation in New Orleans. In an exercise with a panel on picking potentially two more modern candidates for this recent class, Clark Judge pointed out the math, when five of those jury members picked Kuechly, but couldnt get an 80% approval rate.

The voters have themselves to blame. Justin pointed it out four months ago, there had to be a sort of pre-vote collusion for there to be more players chosen. With all the scattered votes, only the minimum required got voted in. Justin proved the math simply wasnt going to add up but these guys didnt seem to know or cared.

You really cant be mad at the HOF itself, Andy P. They make changes all the time but the voters should have been more aware about the ramifications of their voting. Like Paul said, they probably cant, or wont, collude during the process but they could have at least figured the math better so at least a fourth member could have gotten a concentrated election, rather than everyone being so subjective with other candidates.

Other than the four who werent elected, the queue really doesnt matter now, with another batch of players coming up very soon. Maybe the voters will understand the math –and possibly, pre-vote collusion–better next year?

Boknows on February 15, 2025 at 3:03 pm

Disagree Brian. It should not be left to collusion to get candidates elected when the voting system is rotten. The blame here rests solely with the HOF and not the voters.

Paul on February 15, 2025 at 3:21 pm

I agree with Boknows as it was Hall set new rules and perhaps even worst didn’t explain new rules and potential impact to voters – hence voters shock and outrage with results. And strongly disagree voters should have engaged in collusion before submitting ballots – suggestions that was common in past and wasn’t right then as it also creates back selections. And going forward it’s up to Hall to fix and not voters to find way to work around rules to ensure more are elected

Andy p on February 15, 2025 at 7:38 pm

Brian well I am you don’t treat people like this

Andy p on February 15, 2025 at 7:39 pm

Boknows totally I agree with you

Brian wolf on February 16, 2025 at 11:59 am

I understand. Still, you would think that after five months, these voters would understand the seriousness of the math involved and pick the players with the BEST cases?

Does Eric Allen have a better case than Kuechly, Yanda, Evans or Holt?

Does Vinatieri as a kicker, over anybody in the top 7?

I simply feel that many voters still tried to honor the queue–which is understandable–rather than go with the most deserving candidates that might have gotten four elected.
With 15 finalists though, not a lot of margin for error.

Paul on February 16, 2025 at 12:18 pm

It was appalling the many voters were completely unaware of the implications of the new election process math-it became apparent in social media posts from them in the weeks leading up to the meeting (for example Gary Myers), they somehow assumed that 4 or even 5 moderns could be elected.

The best cases (lets say three and give Gates his election) from EAllen, JAllen, LukeK,AdamK,Holt,Woodson,Yanda, Evans is a very subjective decision by 49 individual voters, is the same case every year and we and others can debate the best 4 or 5 as we do every year. And yes honor the queue has been a stead fast approach for voters for decades-none of us should be surprised. You and I (and others here) might disagree on the top 4 or 5 (this year top 3) but like every year everyone in top 10 is deserving and most have flaws on their resumes. There simply is no way (never been one) to get the voters to agree on the top candidates, just rules in past allowed for 5 finalists-that in final step they simply endorsed (all would get 80% on last voter)-so it was the process not the voters that got to final 5 -who we and others often disagreed with. 49 voters are going to have wide ranging views on the top 5 or 4 or 3-thats just the way it is and always will be-differences of opinions.

I do think the voters should have been more aware of the math (likely only 3 moderns get elected) but you assume 49 voters would all agree on those 3 moderns…hence of the 7 finalists its likely at least 5 got votes but splitting of voters means 2 fell short of 80%. Its a crappy process, but not one we can expect or think 49 voters will fix by agreeing to only for 4 of 7 so 4 get 80%….. but for the Hall who created this mess to fix-easy to do: either increase min to 4 or lower % so more likely 4 can be elected.

Bottom like is that you have misguided expectations (and fail to look at past elections for evidence) to expect voters when given a final group of 10 or in this case 7, to agree to final 5 or in this case 3. Its the process that get the results of a certain #, previous it was 5…now its 3 or 4.

Andy p on February 16, 2025 at 4:29 pm

Paul well said

Andy p on February 16, 2025 at 4:31 pm

Why didn’t the Pro Football Hall of Fame consult with the voters I emailed Rick Gosselin asking if he and the others were upset they weren’t consulted and this is what he told me

It’s their process. We have no say in it. We can only operate under the ground rules they give us.

Boknows on February 17, 2025 at 1:48 am

While I would not have Eric Allen in my Top 3 among the 15 finalists, anyone who made the cut to 10 then 7 is a deserved HOFer. I have no issue in pushing him forward of others in the queue who arguably had a better case. It’s the not first time we’ve seen that recently (Sam Mills).

I’m sure it is mentioned in discussion that a candidate is very close to the end of their eligibility. And the voters understand what is meant when that point is raised. Not collusion.but more a gentle reminder we need to act now before it’s too late.

Woodson and Holt should hopefully also get that push.

Paul on February 17, 2025 at 9:39 am

Yes Rick is right but its interesting that when Porter started in 2022 one of the first things he did was consult with voters, which led to his proposal accepted by Board to have 3 seniors per year 2023-2025, only to flip entirely on that view just two years later-and not even consult the voters. At the very least Hall should have provided all voters full copy of the new election rules, summary of those and host informational meeting to go over them-before class of 2025 election cycle started in late summer last year. They failed in that responsibility to inform the voters, its not about their authority as Hall to set rules, its their failure to communicate those changes. I suspect we now all know why Hall had no interest in being clear with voters about the election changes (would have been widespread outrage, like we are reading post election)

Paul on February 17, 2025 at 9:49 am

there are no rules that prohibit during the finalist presentations to mention the number of years left on modern ballot-we have seen that benefit other finalists and clearly was a factor for EAllen, who jumped from final 15 in 2024 (not in final 10) to election this year. Same will certainly benefit current 2025 final 10 Woodson-last ballot as modern is 2028, and also eventually 2025 final 7 Holt (who has nine more years as Modern-he’s getting in 2027 or 2028). Not sure its going to help Watters (2026) and Webb (2027) as we saw with Albert Lewis, making final 15 your last year on ballot is not path to election, both are going to find it really hard to mafe 2026 final 15 which with the returning 12 and adding Brees Fitz Witten and likely Gore is going to be hard for others to get in that group

Paul on February 17, 2025 at 12:09 pm

Judge just posted story on Talk of Fame Two how the new election process hurts modern candidates like Webb from getting elected-in fact, even making finalist step

Andy p on February 17, 2025 at 4:37 pm

I’m so angry with the Pro Football Hall of Fame I feel like a volcano about to erupt it doesn’t help that I have autism

Andy p on February 17, 2025 at 4:38 pm

Paul why do you think the Pro Football Hall of Fame didn’t consult with the voters

Paul on February 17, 2025 at 4:58 pm

I don’t know AndyP…if I had to speculate it was that Porter knew many would be angry, and strongly disagree, so to save himself from that situation he just avoided them and took to the Board…I think what is just as unprofessional is “hiding” the resulting implications from the voters, not clearly communicating the changes and impacts to all the voters, before voting cycle even began-if I was a voter the no consultation would be upsetting, the lack of subsequent communication on impacts is insulting.

And lets remember there are currently only 49 voters, because someone resigned after the annual Board meeting during August enshrinement week in Canton (where they appoint new voters) and after the election rules were changed—-think about that for a moment……very interesting and possible intention timing to resign.

I suspect this has causes a huge divide between many voters and Porter, Hall staff and Board

Andy p on February 17, 2025 at 7:33 pm

Paul I hope so and I bet even his wife and daughters are furious with him because of this you don’t treat people like this I emailed the Pro Football Hall of Fame asking to take that voting spot see my comment from February 10

Paul on February 18, 2025 at 12:17 pm

Andy P only active members of the sports media (cover NFL) can be considered for selection committee membership.

its unfortunate to see finalists nominated but not elected-the four from the seniors/coach/committee were not the only or first finalists (including 2025 modern finalists) not elected, happens most election years-especially for moderns but also has occurred for seniors/coaches/contributors (think of the large number of centennial class finalists not elected in 2020-some still have not).

When you have finalists-every HOF does-every election you are going to have disappointed candidates/family members/teammates etc. as they are not all elected… just nature of the process

Brian wolf on February 18, 2025 at 1:07 pm

Its still ironic and unfortunate as well that rather than having Eli Manning throw a wrench into the voting, it was Vinatieri.

Look, he is a deserving candidate and will be elected but Top 7 on first ballot? Many people might have expected that but the players downvoted from #8-15 have to be incredulous … lets hope its at least four elected next year, because if automatic top 7 continue to make the finalist list, it wont be long before his election anyway.

Paul on February 18, 2025 at 2:22 pm

electing 3 and not 5 certainly has its impact, but don’t really see much compared to previous process with the final 10 cut down to 5..just means going to take a few more elections to get the current final 10 all elected…but really is an impact to those running out of time as modern finalists (Woodson) and other current and future semi-finalists who don’t move quickly to finalists as may stick there much longer and risk election as modern
If it takes a few more elections to get 2025 first ballot guys in (AdamV, LukeK, Eli) not much impact to them. I have no issue with AdamV in final 7 for 2025, and if he had been elected would have also been fine by me-member of the NFL 100th anniversary team-says it all there….with these new rules their are candidates to be worried about but many others whose impact is few years delay

Andy p on February 18, 2025 at 4:27 pm

Paul I know that thought Joel Bussert isn’t a member of the media I’d still be a good voter though I daydream about being a Pro Football Hall of Fame voter and do you agree with me that you don’t treat people like this I’m so angry with the Pro Football Hall of Fame I feel like a volcano about to erupt it doesn’t help that I have autism this has got to change

Paul on February 18, 2025 at 9:05 pm

Process has never been fair – Howley waited decades while his dementia advanced to point by time elected he wasn’t full aware.

Take a deep breath and relax as we can’t change a thing here nor do elections impact our lives. One needs to accept results, yes discuss and complain but keep everything in perspective-more so in a country and world that is madness

Andy p on February 19, 2025 at 1:29 am

Frank Cooley said in his latest article for Hall of Football the voters had a lengthy Zoom meeting with officials from the Pro Football Hall of Fame and several more are planned for the near future hope they change the process again he also comes up with some suggestions

Paul on February 19, 2025 at 7:38 am

Yea so it’s great to hear that unlike last year the Hall is having conversations with voters acknowledging process needs to be fixed and wiling to have ongoing discussions around ideas to do so, interesting to see what they come up with but seems very likely that increases minimums are possible

Brian wolf on February 19, 2025 at 12:46 pm

Yep, in the same Cooney article, he talks about collusion, where a certain voter, tried to get other voters not to vote for a certain candidate, which is Tyrer. Was this guy kicked out for violating rules? Were any of the guys last year that brought racism in the discussions of Parker and Powell? Are these guys even qualified if they cant follow their own rules? Like I have been saying, Andy, life is too short to get worked up about this stuff.

If anything, whether we like it or not, the Hall may be trying to even classes out after 8-9 member classes. What was really galling was having three classes that had two or more contributors in 2015, 2019 and 2020–with three members, though Young at least coached as an assistant–thats seven players that could have been elected, that werent.

Since the 1970 HOF Class, there have been 17 other classes that have consisted of four people or less. In 1997, 2000 and 2010, nepotism crept into the HOF as Wellington Mara, Dan Rooney and Steve Sabol joined their fathers as Tony mentioned, into being elected.

Imagine going to see Joe Montana, Ronnie Lott, Howie Long and Dave Wilcox get elected, and up there on stage with them is Dan Rooney … barf!

Brian wolf on February 19, 2025 at 12:50 pm

Sorry, Steve Sabol was elected in 2020 with the Centennial Class. I loved what he did for NFL Films but felt his father was enough for the HOF …

Andy p on February 19, 2025 at 4:57 pm

Here’s the latest Talk of Fame asking what changes you would make to the voting process

https://talkoffametwo.com/judge-and-jury/hall-of-fame-voting-changes

What would you do

Here’s what I would if I was president of the Pro Football Hall of Fame which obviously I’m not

Have a special election for pre 60s candidates with voters like Clark Judge and Rick Gosselin and historians like Bill Belichick Chris Willis John Turney and Ken Crippen

Go back to the old voting process

Have more transparency

Let the public view the meetings but without comments

Paul on February 19, 2025 at 4:58 pm

Cooney is referring to Bill Polian and to my knowledge only 2 voters left selection committee in 2024 both on good terms (and were reappointed as non voters on BRPs)

Paul on February 19, 2025 at 5:11 pm

Andyp following from that story, lets stick to their rules ONLY ONE CHANGE?

(and I have many ideas as you do)..but if just one I would say…set class minimums at 4 modern+2 senior+1 coach/contributor (rotate each year) as for me the most fundamental fix needed with these rules is get back to more deserving candidates elected each year..and I am willing to concede 8 and 9 member classes are too large…if it means no classes of just 4 or 5

Andy p on February 19, 2025 at 7:47 pm

Paul the two voters who left were John Czarnecki and Peter King can I heard your other ideas what do you think of my other ideas I’m saying if I could make more than one change

Boknows on February 20, 2025 at 12:56 am

I like the 4-2-1 suggestion. A class of 7 feels about right. Just elect the Top 4 modern era vote getters from a cutdown of 7.

I would also like to see the seniors and coaches/contributors elected directly by each special committee who are better qualified to make a judgment. Leave the discussion for the 15 modern era finalists to the 50 voters in mid January,

Paul on February 20, 2025 at 9:40 am

other ideas…I have many
1) 50 voters need to include mix of former players, GMs, coaches, historians-lets say 20%; also every voter has 3 yr term, rotates off next 3 yr cycle but can then rejoin next cycle, stagger 3 yr terms so every year we get 1/3 change in voters from year before, new ideas fresh perspectives each year
2) mandatory 2 hr virtual meeting before voters submit their ballot for 25 semi-finalists (you do not attend you don’t get to vote), just to discuss any modern candidates voters would like to highlight-no need for formal presentations, allow each voter (if they would like to) to discuss a deserving candidate needing attention and awareness of the voters. e.g end of modern ballot guys
3) BRPs need to increase from current 9 to say 15, also 3 yr terms, stagger terms so 1/3 change every election-brings new mix and fresh ideas each election-give BRPs set slots and allow direct election into PFHOF, no need to bring to full committee to present and vote on (since vast majority of 50 member selection committee don’t care about those candidates have limited interest or understanding of the pre 2000 history of NFL
4) as alternative to #3 for seniors, empower an one time committee of 9-12 historians, give then set # of election slots for pre1990 seniors (lets say 10) review all the recent senior finalists and let the special committee elect a special one time only class of those pre 1990 seniors-then moving forward in normal annual elections, seniors will only be pool of those since 1990-get one slot per election..in other words one final fair review and vote of older seniors and move on from that group/era forever

Brian wolf on February 20, 2025 at 11:51 am

My change would be to go back to five moderns and two seniors, period. Eliminate the contributor category and have coaches or deserving executives go through the usual process before 2014. If theyre no-brainer candidates like Reid or Belichick, they can be nominated like modern players. If theyre older coaches or executives like Buck Shaw, Jack Vainisi or Eddie Kotal, they can be nominated like the seniors. This HOF needs to go back to being about players and coaches.

Paul on February 20, 2025 at 2:45 pm

in the coming weeks and months we will no doubt here more about discussions between voters and the Hall, including plenty of idea and suggestions, which is great and look forward to seeing how that proceeds..in the spirit of that let me share this from voter Eugene Frenette in story he posted earlier today..(and these insights are very helpful and appreciated as in recent years, and now even more so, to have more voters speak out about process-to extend they are willing and able to:

“Speaking with a half-dozen voters, all of whom preferred to talk anonymously, there’s a feeling of overwhelming disappointment, and certainly some anger, about the changes in voting protocol that made it look like they were shortchanging the careers of HOF finalists. ”

“This year, we had so much ammunition that should have gotten more people in the Hall of Fame,” said one voter, who has been part of the 49-member electorate for over a decade. “I was shocked that [coach nominee] Mike Holmgren and [wide receiver] Torry Holt didn’t get in.

“I’d say the majority of voters are very disappointed how this went down and we’re going to have a call about it.”

“nother voter was livid about deliberating on a Zoom call for eight-plus hours, discussing the 15 modern-era finalists and five senior players/coach/contributor finalists, yet resulting in only three and one, respectively, getting into Canton.

“What makes me upset is it makes us look as voters that we didn’t think more than three modern era candidates were worthy of election,” he said. “That’s not the case.”

It’ll be interesting to see whether the voter pushback results in the HOF Board of Directors calling an audible when it comes time to vote on the Class of 2026. ”

“One voter highly critical of the voting change says it’s almost a guarantee that future HOF classes will not reach the maximum number because there’s too many qualified candidates.

Another reason this change is misguided is football, by virtue of 22 starting positions, has more HOF-worthy candidates than other sports. It should be putting a greater number of players in Canton, not less.

“We’ve got so many guys backed up that are worthy of getting in and it’s only going to get worse now,” the voter said. “I would be curious to find out who thought this would be a good idea. This rule change doesn’t make any sense to me.

“I could have predicted this [reduced class] would happen because when you get good candidates, the vote is going to get split. We were agonizing every year just trying to get it down to five [finalists].”

“Many voters I’ve known for decades have expressed how gut-wrenching it is for them just to whittle 15 finalists to 10, then 5. Now the change in voting for five of seven finalists — and not knowing how many or who gets in because the HOF doesn’t tell them — makes it even more agonizing.

“They didn’t need to change anything,” said one voter. “Just give it to the top five vote-getters. There’s never going to be a shortage where you don’t have five deserving candidates.

“Smaller classes are absolutely going to happen because more deserving guys are going to be backlogged. If 80 percent is the standard, less guys will get in every year.”

Some have speculated the HOF is concerned about voting results, which voters are supposed to keep secret, getting out and that’s why this new format was adopted. Others believe current HOF members influenced the Board of Directors to make entry more exclusive, but HOF spokesman Rich Desrosiers denied that was the reason for the voting change. ”

and note this last statement….

So the question becomes this: will the HOF revert back to the old voting protocol that practically ensures a maximum five modern era candidates are elected, or will the current bylaws stay in place for the foreseeable future?

“With this change and having only one year to look at how the results transpired, it’s more likely this system will stay in place for one more year,” Desrosiers said. “

Paul on February 20, 2025 at 3:37 pm

correction: Eugene Frenette is NOT a voter, but insights and quotes from his story were from several voters he contacted

Andy p on February 20, 2025 at 4:47 pm

Here’s the article

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/sports/columns/gene-frenette/2025/02/19/pro-football-hall-of-fame-changes-harder-entry-fred-taylor-tom-coughlin-gene-frenette/78972356007/

Andy p on February 20, 2025 at 4:47 pm

Paul what do you think about this have more transparency

Paul on February 20, 2025 at 5:24 pm

Not opposed but not really sure it improves outcomes

Boknows on February 20, 2025 at 5:45 pm

Zach Martin retires. The first potential candidate for 2030.

Andy p on February 20, 2025 at 7:47 pm

Paul what do you mean it doesn’t improves outcome

Paul on February 20, 2025 at 9:20 pm

Let’s say we had a lot more transparency during class of 2025 election – would it have changed outcome?

Andy p on February 20, 2025 at 10:51 pm

Paul I don’t know what are you trying to say

Paul on February 21, 2025 at 7:00 am

So what do you mean where you say transparency?

Paul on February 21, 2025 at 12:37 pm

I guess what I am saying Andy P is that transparency is great, just doubt that it improves the results

Brian wolf on February 23, 2025 at 1:55 pm

Has Julio Jones officially retired from the NFL? According to nfl.com and profootballreference.com, he is still considered active? Would he be eligible for the HOF in 2029 or 2030?

Antonio Brown will be eligible for the Hall soon as well, with Kelce also possibly retiring … going to get pretty hairy by the 2030 election. Holt and Wayne may not make it.

Paul on February 23, 2025 at 3:30 pm

Jones didn’t play in 2024 which would make him eligible for class of 2029 as hall doesn’t use retirement “date”, announcements or filing paperwork with league, it’s simply starts clock on last season not on 53 man regular season roster

Paul on February 23, 2025 at 3:33 pm

Zack Martin has given us our first class of 2030 first ballot candidate – agreed very possible Chiefs look to release JKelce in coming weeks (could restructure last year of his deal but perhaps time for them to move on as his production and health are quickly declining)

Paul on February 23, 2025 at 3:34 pm

Holt has several years left on modern ballot, was in final 7 and after waiting until Fitz is elected in 2026 – he’s next in – very likely 2027 or 2028.

Brian wolf on February 24, 2025 at 1:59 pm

Thanks Paul … looking at his last roster spot which was Eagles but hopefully, Jones wont try to come back.
He probably wont be first ballot anyway but Martin should be first ballot for 2030 but we will see the leftovers from the voting period. I see the moderns going back to five candidates by at least 2028.

First Ballot Picks Looking Ahead

2026 — Brees, Fitz* Belichick
2027 — Gronk, Peterson
2028 — Brady, Watt*
2029 — Donald JKelce* Jones*
2030 — Martin* Rodgers? Kelce? Miller?

* Might not make 1st ballot induction

Other notables by 2030

Witten
Gore
Brown
Sherman
P Peterson
Pouncey
Big Ben
Jordan?
T Smith?

Haha … gonna be a mess! The HOF needs to correct the voting quickly

Paul on February 24, 2025 at 2:22 pm

Hall does not want large classes of 7 or 8..I don’t see any return to 5 moderns anytime in future, its more likely 4+2 = 6 that we might see by 2027… thats the small hall vs large hall compromise

As to future elections and first ballots…

2026 — Brees, Fitz, Belichick (voter have already indicated strong support for all three
2027 — Gronk, Peterson (seem lock)
2028 — Brady, Watt* (both lock)
2029 — Donald JKelce (both already have support from voters)… Jones-very unlikely..looks like slot here for Eli/BenR
2030 — Martin* Rodgers? Kelce? Miller?…will not get four, lots depends on whether last three have teams interested, will not know for a few months…my guess is that Rodgers will find a home as some team will take a flyer on him, KC will soon need to make decision on Kelce due to deadlines for 2025 bonus, I suspect Miller is done…

Andy p on February 24, 2025 at 4:41 pm

Paul you want to know something out of all the Wide Receivers on the 1970s 1980s 1990s and 2000s All Decade Team Torry Holt is the only one not in

Andy p on February 24, 2025 at 4:52 pm

Here’s Clark Judge’s recent article on Talk of Fame saying what the Pro Football Hall of Fame got right with the vote

https://talkoffametwo.com/nfl/pro-football-vote-2025-class

Paul on February 25, 2025 at 2:22 pm

Jason Peters officially retires, was not on active roster during 2024 season so would be first eligible for class of 2029-not likely to be 1st ballot, but has strong case for eventual election with profile of 2(4)/9/SB/all decade

Paul on February 25, 2025 at 2:45 pm

While T Kelce announced he’s coming back for 2025 and Chiefs looking to rework his current contract with 2025 as final year (likely add 1-2 dead years to spread cap hit) as they have March 15 deadline to pay $11m bonus..does not seem they are considering releasing for cap savings in 2025…removes him from our class of 2030 contenders list…still waiting on Rodgers outcome-may not come for a while, Jets will pre-designate as June release allowing him to talk to other teams..but will any be interested, seems like someone likely will as always one looking for vet QB thinking he puts them over the top…..

Paul on February 26, 2025 at 3:44 pm

LAR, NYG,LVR,MIN, PIT,CLE,TEN,IND all seem to be teams in need of QB, not saying Rodgers is a fit for all as some will look at draft and options via TA/trade (Stafford)..but once that “music” stops it does seem if he wants to continue to play, seems he does, he likely has a place somwhere. Oddsmakers are suggesting LAR (after Stafford likely trade), LVR (twin with Sanders), PITT (seems unlikely fit to me) and IND (one year play/mentor role) as most likely.

Only real point here is that seems very unlikely he’s going to be a class of 2030 first ballot PFHOF contender

Paul on February 27, 2025 at 12:30 pm

and if Rodgers and JKelce return in 2025, it would make Zack Martin the only first ballot for class of 2030 with real chance at 1st ballot elected…unless Von Miller??? Other eventual PFHOFs will likely be first eligible for 2030 not none likely elected 1st ballot

Marie on February 27, 2025 at 1:57 pm

My way to early Class of 2026, based on a call of ONLY 6: Drew Brees, Torry Holt, Larry Fitzgerald, Luke Kuechly, Bill Belichick and Ken Anderson.

So 4 moderns plus 1 Senior and 1 Coach. I do agree with you, Paul, I think the day of 7 or 8 classes are gone. If only 4 get in again next year, I expect war with the voters, but I do not think they will adjust anything until at least the Class of 2027, give it one more year.

Paul on February 27, 2025 at 2:50 pm

at present I don’t see any result for class of 2026 that gets us 4 modern + 2, as its still the same math that got us just 3+1 for 2025..and if BillB plus Kraft are finalists, there is ZERO hope for any senior as not enough voters to get 3 of 5 elected.. and if by some miracle voters figure out a way to gather enough votes to get 4 modern its hard to believe it would include 2 WRs..seems very likely Fritz will force Holt to wait until 2027.

Robert ewing on March 3, 2025 at 2:58 pm

Most likely it will depend on who the nominees are in the senior coach and contributor categories

Like I said a while back see more seniors elected who played between the 70s and the 90s

Andy p on March 3, 2025 at 4:48 pm

Robert good to see you back I thought you quit I noticed your Facebook account is gone did you see my feelings about the class

Robert on March 3, 2025 at 7:14 pm

Yes I did andy and I want to set the record straight on a few things

1. I dont think it had to do with deion sanders as much as people think most likely think I think there were years in which it was hard for voters to select 5 guys it just seems to me that they picked 5 names some deserving some not deserving

2. Even if the old voting was in place I doubt tyrer would have gotten in for a whole host of reasons

3. What exactly does Porters family have to do with HOF elections

4. I believe the time for electing pre 60s players has come and gone and they need to start getting seniors in whi played between the 70s and 90s

Andy p on March 3, 2025 at 7:56 pm

Robert let me explain what Porter’s family has to do with the election I bet they’ve heard the complaints too

Robert ewing on March 4, 2025 at 1:00 am

Andy did you see this: https://talkoffametwo.com/nfl/hall-of-fame-voting-changes I’d be OK with this

Andy p on March 4, 2025 at 2:01 am

Robert yes I did see it I check talk of fame everyday

Paul on March 4, 2025 at 9:30 am

“Robert let me explain what Porter’s family has to do with the election I bet they’ve heard the complaints too”

Let’s not assume anything about his family, in fact out of respect for their privacy let’s keep them out of our conversations, and ignore/push back on anything we see on social media that refers to them

And Robert, it has a lot to do with Deion who made numerous and strategic comments regarding Hall elections and size of classes repeatedly since 2020-its naive to thinks his frequent public comments on various sports media outlets, interviews, podcasts and on social media were not a factor-in fact impact has been mentioned by numerous voters, he was not the only one but in terms of high profile public repeated comments he clearly had influence towards hall changing the rules.

and I am not even sure what this means “I think there were years in which it was hard for voters to select 5 guys it just seems to me that they picked 5 names some deserving some not deserving “… all 50 voters always had the opportunity to vote no for anyone in the final 5 modern where they needed 80%..clearly majority of voters did not have issue with the final 5 modern in recent elections (while over the years, including class of 2024, they certainly used their decisions not to vote for seniors, coaches and contributors who in some years were not elected as as standalone candidates did not achieve 80% from full committee)

Robert ewing on March 4, 2025 at 1:58 pm

I’ll stick to my opinions and leave it there

Paul on March 4, 2025 at 4:34 pm

We can disagree on the order (some getting in before others) but frankly when it comes to the modern finalists elected in recent years I can’t think of one who was not deserving..could have some waited longer, sure…but that’s a different debate (order)

Love to the the case made for any recent modern PFHOFer elected that shows they were not deserving of the honor-ever

Brian wolf on March 5, 2025 at 4:24 pm

Sorry Paul, but I dont think Sam Mills, Steve Atwater, Kurt Warner, Devin Hester and Bryant Young were deserving.

I am happy for their families but felt they were just short. Very close though, because they all had great careers. Subjective choices but there are many players I would put in over them.

Paul on March 6, 2025 at 6:56 pm

Well Atwater, Bryant, Hester have multiple all pro plus all decade (Hester also on NFL 100th anniversary team) and Warner had 2x MVP plus went to 3 SBs with two different teams and has SB MVP – so they certainly match up with resumes of other PFHOFers

Robert ewing on March 11, 2025 at 4:19 am

I’ll agree with you Brian on Bryant Young never did I see a hof player when I watched him who would you have rather seen get inducted than young, I will disagree though on Atwater Warner Hester Mills

I’ll probably be back when the nominees for senior contributor and coach are announced

Paul on March 11, 2025 at 9:26 am

The “eye” test is a valuable one but we also are aware (and along with voters) that post-season honors also matter – a lot – (right or wrong they clearly do) and on that measure Young is deserving-especially when compared to other PFHOFers.

I would agree in terms of order and sequence of election, others could have gone in first, but of course that is different debate, than is he even deserving to be elected.

And as to “who would you rather seen get inducted” its worth noting that on that 2022 ballot (from which Young was elected) the those not yet elected include WAnderson, Holt and Wayne have not yet been elected-Holt and Wayne likely have stronger resumes but we know reason they are not in is due to the ongoing WR logjam and unlikely that voters will elect two WRs in same year

Robert ewing on March 11, 2025 at 6:23 pm

Agreed Paul 100% and I doubt they elected either one in 2026 because of Fitzgerald

Brian wolf on March 11, 2025 at 10:43 pm

Juss sayin … we all have players we felt were deserving or not. These guys had careers that wont have me picketting the HOF but it wasnt like they were elite.

Kurt Warner is a great example. His first three starting years with the Rams were spectacular but then he fell off a cliff for the next five seasons with the Giants and Cardinals. Yes, he took the Cards to a SB, which helped him get elected, but still a 9-7 team before they got hot in the postseason. Very borderline at best but postseason success helps any player, including Bryant and Atwater. If Hester can get voted in because of punt return TDs, shouldnt Corradelle Patterson for KO return TDs?

Paul on March 12, 2025 at 9:08 am

Hester holds career record for PR TDs and also KR+PR TDs and it is that last record that carries a lot of weight, but again these resumes don’t consist of just one stat or accomplishment, Hester is on two all decade teams plus NFL 100th anniversary team, so generally seen as best returner in NFL history. No other KR or PR including Patterson have those on resume-and frankly I just don’t see voters (given limited slots and so many deserving players) to elect another returner any time soon…just like we did not get more punters after Guy and once AdamV is elected we are not getting more kickers.

As to Warner, the debate there is peak career vs sustained success in career..for me it seems hard to believe that voters would forever ignore a QB with 2xMVP, 3SB appearances (with 2 different teams-how often has that occurred?) and the SB win/MVP.

Brian wolf on March 13, 2025 at 12:58 pm

Good debate Paul and I am a Warner fan but three years is too soon to be considered a peak. Lets be real, Faulk was the best player on that Rams team and once Warner left him, Bruce and Holt, he wasnt the same QB. How many HOF QBs get replaced by two different teams after going to two SB games? He also sat behind bust Matt Leinart before replacing him. His career is definitely unique, but HOF borderline. His postseason success, like Terrell Davis got him elected.

Paul on March 13, 2025 at 2:12 pm

Warner wasn’t the same QB after the Rams? Won a 2nd MVP and become very close to winning at 2nd SB with Arizona….and why is it a problem (if aim of playing the game is to win-including SBs) that playoff successes are major reason Warner, and several other PFHOFers, got elected???

Brian wolf on March 13, 2025 at 6:03 pm

His MVP awards were with the Rams, competing with Faulk. By your logic, why not elect Jim Plunket? He won two SBs in four years and could have been MVP in both? I never said postseason success was a problem. For me, it is necessary over just statistics.

From 2002-2007, before taking the Cards to the SB, his starting record was 13-29. If you think that regression shouldnt matter to his election, then please, lets put Plunkett into the Hall.

Warner is elected and that doesnt change anything. I am fine with it, but like our debate, we both have positives on him but I presented negatives as well. The voters felt he was worthy.
The same debates will happen with Big Ben, Ryan, Rivers, E Manning as well. We will see how it plays out.

Robert on March 13, 2025 at 7:46 pm

im just wondering and maybe someone can answer this why is it every time we discuss qbs and the hall the name Jim Plunkett comes up,?

Brian wolf on March 13, 2025 at 10:43 pm

Haha … messing with Paul. Because winners always get discussed for the HOF, Robert. It helped get Warner and eventually, Eli Manning get elected. Too bad Plunkett, Simms or Tommy Thompson wont. Neither will Charlie Conerly, who was in more championship games than Brees. It would surprise me though if Brees didnt get elected first ballot. He was a true precision passer. I dont feel Roethlisberger will. How long will Frank Gore have to wait? Alot of intrigue for next year’s class?

It seems like the Steelers want Aaron Rodgers but he is waffling it appears. Unless the Vikings make a play, he wont get a better opportunity to win again. Will Russell Wilson stay or go to the Giants? Darnold signed with the Seahawks but their offensive line is bad. He better enjoy that money while he can. Has there ever been a QB to win 13 or more games with a team and get cut loose? The last I remember was Trent Dilfer with the Ravens with 12 wins but he also didnt help win all those games. The Vikings must have low-balled Darnold.

Robert on March 13, 2025 at 11:14 pm

Good Enough answer for me Brian i can see the logic behind your use of plunkett in certain cases, Your also right in terms of so much intrigue in terms of next years class i can see brees be the only first timer next year will we get more than first timer next year i doubt it because most likley they will want to only put in brees as a first timer who else can go in with him in terms of modern honestly i dont know as of right now.

Paul on March 14, 2025 at 11:36 am

I don’t think we bring up Plunkett that often but Raiders fans online certainly do! LOL

Winning SBs is a big deal for voters, especially for QBs but in looking at those already in the PFHOF we just don’t see them elected without also some sustained career successes via playoffs and regular season, either reflected by post season awards (MVP, all pro etc..) or top career stats-hence why Brees with one SB is first ballot and why Plunkett and Sims can’t get any support from the voters.

And in looking at what voters have been saying in advance of the class of 2026 election cycle, it does seem very likely that Fitz will join Brees as first ballot, and the other 1-2 moderns will come from returning 2025 final 7.

BenR in 2027 will be very interesting to see how voters view his resume as potential first ballot, and if we are still getting just 3-4 moderns elected he could very well wait. That limited # of slots, and the 3+ serious first ballot contenders appearing 2026-2029, and backlog even from current remaining finalist, likely means Gore, and Witten are looking at 5+ years of waiting. Both also impacted but another more qualified candidate at their position – AP and Gronk -later joining ballot and jumping them in the position queue quickly to election

Robert ewing on March 14, 2025 at 7:03 pm

100% agreed Paul with what you said and BTW appreciate the clarification on plunkett

Tony - Zoneblitz.com on March 14, 2025 at 9:06 pm

@Brian – I don’t think the Vikings lowballed Darnold as much as told him up front “We’d love you back, but at this price, because we know that JJ is ready to take over.” The plan was for Darnold to be a bridge all along–the 14-3 record was the shocker there, and kind of put them in a rough spot vs what their initial plan was. Those last two games sucked as a Vikings fan, but it really did make things easier for them to say at the end of the day he’s not a $40 million/yr QB.

There were some local bloggers (and radio guys) that were very upset that the Vikes didn’t tag and trade him–they kept insisting that the market was there. Turned out, it took the Seahawks trading their guy for an extra 3rd and less than tag money to get him–they won’t admit it, but the Vikings played it right, especially since they likely get a third round compensatory for him next year.

Agree that it’s not a great spot for him–the OL is questionable, although until the last two games, he was actually very good against blitz/pressure, and he played behind a VERY suspect IOL last year–part of the breakdown in the last two games I believe was their replacement LT fell apart as well. Kupp will help him out–but the question for me will be how he plays with a defensive minded head coach vs KOC.

Brian wolf on March 16, 2025 at 1:05 pm

Tony, I believe the Vikings may sign Rodgers but they probably wont give him what he wants. I feel they could sign him for 34 million per year depending upon guaranteed money. Can you imagine him following the Favre-career arc?

With O’Connell rejuvenating Darnold, why not? McCarthy will take over soon enough and now they add another runner with Mason. Speculation is Rodgers waiting on the Vikings to blink. Will they do it? If so, Wilson will probably re-sign with Pittsburgh.

Tony - ZB on March 16, 2025 at 10:42 pm

Brian – I believe there’s more of a chance now than I did before, but I don’t believe after Mason that they have $34 million in cap space for this year, so would take some structuring. I heard some pure speculation today that they want him as a mentor this year, backup next–not sure how he would feel about that. And I think it’s also a locker room decision.

Clear he wants to come here, though–part of me wonders if the Vikings are dragging it out just to mess with other teams plans. Not likely, but…fun to speculate.

Paul on March 17, 2025 at 11:16 am

I think the challenge the Vikings face is do they think signing Rodgers makes them a more competitive playoff challenger in 2025 (in division where Lions and Packers are better and Bears are getting better) while delaying the career development of JJ?

Not sure what the right answer is but its clearly a major dilemma that will have major impact on the short term success of the Vikings next few seasons

I do think they need to make a decision, and if they decide to make Rodgers an offer he needs to be prepared right now to say yes or no-and not drag this out longer

Robert on March 19, 2025 at 2:23 am

if you had to change the way the pro football hall of fame votes on seniors what change would you make and why?

Paul on March 19, 2025 at 10:37 am

set up a 8-12 member seniors committee made up of historians only and give them the ability to direct elect 2 seniors each year (since the vast majority of 50 member selection committee clearly don’t care or are not informed enough about seniors to trust them with that role)

Paul on March 19, 2025 at 10:38 am

(and by seniors I would include players, coaches, contributors 25 years post end of career, which right now would be pre 2000)

Paul on March 19, 2025 at 3:09 pm

and certainly would hope those historians would initially focus on pre 1970s candidates, as no immediate rush for those from 80s and 90s… or have them pick one pre 1970 and one post 1970

Brian wolf on March 19, 2025 at 4:51 pm

The Vikings seem to be moving forward with McCarthy. Could Flacco be a good, veteran mentor?Will Rodgers make the Steelers wait? Wilson should move on towards the Giants and possibly mentor Ward, if they can trade up with the Titans.

I feel Sanders is overrated and turned some NFL executives off during team interviews. Is his arm good enough to justify a top-five pick?

Andy p on March 19, 2025 at 4:52 pm

Every year when I see the senior finalists and I see one of them isn’t a pre 60s finalists I say well this isn’t going to work

Robert ewing on March 19, 2025 at 7:43 pm

Appreciate the feedback paul I agree with everything you said i like the direct elect idea myself

Paul on March 20, 2025 at 4:05 pm

thanks..and honestly I was not the first to suggest it and it’s an idea that many have supported and advocated for, including some voters..I just think its the only solution for the super seniors

Robert ewing on March 20, 2025 at 6:05 pm

Agreed like you said the direct elect option is the only way that the super seniors get in

Brian wolf on March 21, 2025 at 2:00 pm

A special election could continue to gather momentum but it would probably only be 3-5 players at the most. Its unlikely Hay, Kotal or other contributors get voted in, like TOFTWO suggested.

These are my five, if a special super-senior election

Lewellen
Dilweg
Emerson
Benton
Wistert

Some like Christensen, Matheson, Barwegan, Banducci, and others as well. Of couse, Isbell could take a spot from any of them.

Robert ewing on March 21, 2025 at 5:51 pm

I’m sold on 4 of them Brian not quite sold on Benton just yet

Paul on March 23, 2025 at 4:19 pm

hard to say if momentum is gathering, but we had 10 seniors elected in 2020 centennial class, doesn’t seem unreasonable to think or hope that we could get as many (including pre 1970s coaches/contributors) in such a class…3-5 seems so small to be somewhat ineffective at representation or the backlog, especially if we consider on more special seniors class is all we see in our lifetime

Lewellen, Dilweg, Emerson, Wistert, Isbell -would seem to be the “locks”

Robert ewing on March 23, 2025 at 9:42 pm

100% agreed on the locks for the seniors if we had a fifth slot my pick would either be Matheson or George Christensen

Robert ewing on April 1, 2025 at 5:54 pm

Not sure if anyone saw this : https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-s-official-records-to-finally-incorporate-all-america-football-conference-statistics

Boknows on April 2, 2025 at 11:34 pm

Paul Brown now credited with 7 championships and 222 wins.

“Among the other changes: Marion Motley will now be fourth on the list of highest career rushing average with 5.7 yards per carry. Ahead of him are Michael Vick (7.0), Randall Cunningham (6.4) and Lamar Jackson (6.1).

And the San Francisco 49ers of 1948 amassed 3,663 yards rushing, which puts them in first place all-time over the 2019 Baltimore Ravens, who had 3,296 rushing yards.

The 1948 49ers averaged 6.1 yards per run in 1948, which will also put them in first place, just ahead of the 2024 Ravens, who averaged 5.8 yards per carry.”

The Ravens didn’t fare quite as well as Brown. ;)

Robert on April 3, 2025 at 1:52 am

ill be honest i dont see the records held by the 48 49ers anytime soon am i crazy to think that boknows

Paul on April 3, 2025 at 12:58 pm

Interesting that the PFHOF has often included (and once had career stat boards in the Hall) that included AAFL stats but NFL has never officially recognized them until now…

Doesn’t really change much in terms of current PFHOFers or chances for other senior candidates but fact that the 1948 Browns now join the 1972 Dolphins as undefeated teams is interesting…also likely increases the profile and assessment of Otto Graham as one of the best Qbs of all time,

Robert ewing on April 3, 2025 at 2:17 pm

100% agreed Paul you hit the nail on the head in terms of the aafc

Brian wolf on April 4, 2025 at 1:44 pm

I just hope the recognition helps Buck Shaw, who had the best team other than the Browns.

Robert on April 4, 2025 at 11:06 pm

I hope so too Brian for the reason you stated will it help shaw honestly i dont know

Brian wolf on April 6, 2025 at 2:13 am

Julio Jones officially retires. Which one gets elected first? He or Antonio Brown? Can Holt or Wayne get elected by then?

Robert on April 6, 2025 at 2:58 am

if we keep getting small classes of say 3-4 modern and maybe either 1 senior 1 coach or 1 contributor it will be a while

Billy on April 7, 2025 at 11:28 am

Antonio Brown was a slightly better receiver. Julio Jones is a way better human being. I think Jones gets in 1st

Paul on April 7, 2025 at 3:10 pm

After Fitz (2026) I suspect Holt has window in 2027 or 2028, not sure if Wayne has a path nor SSmith-in fact one or both could fall off 2026 finalist list..I have my doubts that Jones would be first ballot in 2029 but would likely become the best WR on ballot at that time…I would predict a very long wait for AB (2027)

Robert on April 7, 2025 at 3:39 pm

agreed 100% Paul im of the same thinking that either smith or wayne fails to make the final 15 based on the quality of candidates coming up for elecftion

Brian wolf on April 7, 2025 at 7:51 pm

Had Jones had over 80 career TDs, he might have possibly been first ballot but a great talent. Brown has the accolades but regressed in attitude like we all know. I think he will wait at least 3-4 years but we will see?

Robert on April 7, 2025 at 9:24 pm

agreed mostly likley Jones will wait at least 3-4 years like you said Brian

Paul on April 8, 2025 at 9:32 am

Also Jones needed more peak seasons and 1000+ career receptions to secure 1st ballot-of course now an even harder accomplishment to achieve (last two classes had just 1 first ballot)..of course 2026 likely to have 2, as will classes 2027-2029

Paul on April 9, 2025 at 9:05 am

As to Jones, I simply don’t see how he is first ballot in 2029 when Donald certainly will be and J Kelce very likely (plus hard to envision rules would allow min of 5 moderns)

robert on April 9, 2025 at 4:46 pm

agreed paul unless they change the rules at this point who even knows what it will be like in 3-5 years

Paul on April 10, 2025 at 2:58 pm

I think we may get movement back to min of 4 moderns-just doubt it gets back up to 5 as seems like improvements are needed but at same time push back remains for classes as large as 7+

If I was betting man I would say we get to 4 modern+ 1 senior +1 coach/contributor(as combined or alternate each year) = 6

likely 6 instead of 4 will seem to most as improvement and address the “we went too far and created very small class” debate

Robert on April 11, 2025 at 9:31 pm

i could see that too paul in terms of us getting 4 modern era inductees 5 at this point would be hard to see, one other thing id like to add is that they better come up with three great seniors to go up against belichick (Coach) and Kraft (Contributor) Nominees in terms of seniors i can see them going with seniors who played between 1970-1995

Brian wolf on April 12, 2025 at 4:54 pm

Patrick Peterson retired as well, adding to the list of deserving but crowded field of future electees.

Andy p on April 12, 2025 at 11:54 pm

It’s been two months since the Class of 2025 was elected and I’m still angry it was only four members you don’t treat people like this especially those who’ve been waiting for so long the only good thing is we’ll have a fast induction ceremony

Anyone else feel the same way

Robert Kraft shouldn’t be blamed for Spygate and Deflategate he’s not the one who taped those coaches and deflated those footballs

Andy p on April 12, 2025 at 11:55 pm

Robert totally

Robert on April 13, 2025 at 2:00 am

actually, Andy im still ok with it for a whole host of reasons some I’d rather not discuss on here

Andy p on April 13, 2025 at 2:08 am

Robert I’d like to hear some of them

Paul on April 13, 2025 at 11:36 am

2025 election was wrong-plain and simple, plus very stupid as only delaying election of 1 or 2 more moderns and held back another coach who someday will be elected..but alas nothing can be done with it, lets hope voters keep pressure on Hall to revise to at least increase min of 4 moderns

as to 2026 seniors, if rules are the same and BillB and Kraft are among the five-we are going to see no seniors elected…get ready for that outcome folks…its not great but how that election math will work

Andy p on April 13, 2025 at 8:52 pm

Paul totally

Paul on April 14, 2025 at 11:50 am

From what I can gather, the Hall is resisting any changes for the class of 2026 election as they would like to see another year if impacts again create a very small class-which the math (they created with intent to result in small classes) is likely to ensure.

Not sure there is the ability (plus collusion among voters before and during election meeting is not allowed) of 50 voters to work to avoid split votes in order to get 3 of 5 elected or more than 3 moderns elected..seems very unlikely we are looking at class of 6 or more in 2026, 3+2 is possible but we might again only get 3+1=4

Andy p on April 14, 2025 at 4:52 pm

Paul so what your saying is we’ll get another small class of consisting of Drew Brees Larry Fitzgerald Bill Belichick and Robert Kraft

I swear if this happens again I’m not going to Canton in 2028 for Tom Brady’s Hall of Fame induction I’m done with the Pro Football Hall of Fame

You don’t treat people like this

My anger towards the Pro Football Hall of Fame my feelings of betrayal are of truly biblical proportions

Brian wolf on April 14, 2025 at 9:22 pm

Kraft wont get elected yet … Gronk will be after Belichick. I am predicting Ken Anderson as the next senior elected …

Andy p on April 15, 2025 at 12:04 am

Brian why do you say Kraft won’t get elected yet

Robert Kraft shouldn’t be blamed for Spygate and Deflategate he’s not the one who taped those coaches and deflated those footballs

Brian wolf on April 15, 2025 at 2:32 am

Kraft took a beating from the ESPN article as well as the Dynasty series which criticized Belichick despite his coaching the team to championships. Voters seem to have soured on him but we will see who gets elected first. Sadly, Kraft became bitter after Brady left and felt Belichick wasted too much money on incoming free agents that didnt–or wouldnt–adhere to the Patriot Way. Its his team and money but he was ready to cut the chord once QB Jones struggled his sophomore season. Who knows if Mac Jones would have developed had Belichick given him a real offensive coach instead?

I wouldnt let this voting process keep you from visiting the HOF in 2028. With Belichick, Gronk and Brady going in–maybe Kraft or Vinatieri as well?–it will be a Patriots party …

Brian wolf on April 15, 2025 at 1:41 pm

Tyron Smith just retired with Dallas, for one day. He will probably make the HOF but will probably wait till the mid-2030s for election.

Salute, to a great Cowboys career!!

Andy p on April 15, 2025 at 4:55 pm

Brian I guess your right I have time I have no plans to watch The Dynasty have you watched it can we at least put Robert Kraft in hasn’t he been through enough he shouldn’t be blamed for Spygate and Deflategate he’s not the one who taped those coaches and deflated those footballs he and I have something in common we’ve both been through a lot life has been hard for both of us

andy p on April 15, 2025 at 4:57 pm

I swear if this happens again next year I’m adding Deion Sanders and Jim Porter to my mortal enemy list I’m not going to tell you everyone on my list but I will tell you Malcolm Butler Russell Wilson and Arthur Blank are on it

Paul on April 15, 2025 at 6:41 pm

Yea I think the other 2010s OT (after Joe Thomas) will be real interesting to see how voters assess Jason Peters, Andrew Whitworth Trent Williams and Tyron Smith

Brian wolf on April 15, 2025 at 8:16 pm

Why would you be upset with Butler, Wilson and Blank, Andy?

Andy p on April 15, 2025 at 8:47 pm

Malcolm Butler for ruining my 16th birthday Russell Wilson for throwing out his loyalties and Arthur Blank for trading Matt Ryan

Robert on April 15, 2025 at 10:14 pm

Brian i could 100% see that in terms of anderson being the next senior elected by the hall of fame

Andy: little things like the hall of fame use to bother me a lot but after a while ive learned to just let things go

See you guys in August or September

Andy on April 16, 2025 at 12:01 am

Robert ok see you then

Andy p on April 16, 2025 at 12:01 am

Robert ok see you then

Brian wolf on April 23, 2025 at 7:20 pm

RIP

Steve McMichael

Paul on April 24, 2025 at 10:13 am

odds are tonight several future PFHOFers will enter the NFL-who and with which team and from which draft round are unknown but there will be some, we will be taking about for classes in 2040s (LOL)

Brian wolf on April 24, 2025 at 12:29 pm

The odds of many of these first and second round picks being busts or out of the league within six years are even greater, Paul. Looking back just over the last ten years, that Frank Cooney wrote about with first round QBs, many fail or move on as backups trying to land another starting job. Coaching is the culprit, with many starting too soon. Many were overevaluated as well but teams would rather hit and miss at the QB position–especially on rookie salaries–than grab the best athletic prospects.

Tonights an example … I feel the Titans should either grab Hunter, Carter or trade down. Instead, they will grab Ward, who has talent but throws mostly side-arm and really only starred for one season. Can this QB truly make a difference?
This team has a bad history with QBs in the first round. Even McNair took time to develop. I know they want a star for their new stadium in 2027 but without stars on defense–hell, I might trade for Parsons from Dallas–this team wont get any better. Hope I am wrong … haha

Brian wolf on April 25, 2025 at 12:47 pm

Haha … well Andy, your anger towards Deion Sanders has some possible karma … his big mouth might have cost his son alot of money in the draft. We will see if the Browns or Raiders try to draft him in the early second round … if not, how far will he slide?

Andy p on April 25, 2025 at 10:43 pm

Brian thanks for pointing that out let’s not forget Deion ran a disaster of a school called Prime Prep Academy I’m sure you know the story

Brian wolf on April 25, 2025 at 11:47 pm

I cannot remember Andy P where a QB rated #1 in the draft by Mel Kiper Jr, fell so far ? The kid was either too arrogant, wrongly evaluated–his arm isnt the strongest–or teams simply didnt want to deal with his father looking over their shoulder?

Its sad, and according to radio draftniks, they suggest he challenge college football and go back and play another season on NIL money?
He has already lost a ton. He could refuse to report to a drafting team and become a free agent …

Robert ewing on April 27, 2025 at 2:42 am

Just a thought wouldn’t it be much easier to have a shorter preliminary seniors list with deserving seniors than have a longer list with both deserving and undeserving seniors

Paul on April 27, 2025 at 2:22 pm

“The odds of many of these first and second round picks being busts or out of the league within six years are even greater, Paul.”

Oh I know..and odds only get higher deeper into draft, was just pointing out that historically from a draft will come future PFHOF…how many, which and what rounds is very uncertain

I think Kiper’s problem that once he was on the Shedeur train there was no way to get off during draft when the fall got really bad…I noticed other draft analysists at least got quieter as draft proceeded but Kiper when the other direction incluidng ripping the league repeatedly to the end on Saturday. Now his reputation is even more tied to Shedeur performance in the NFL, good or bad…its not a very good look for ESPN and Kiper.

No way Shedeur improves his view many teams in the league if he makes a move not to report to Browns as their draft pick..sure he could make more money this year via NIL but nothing is going to improve his draft stock in 2026. From what we are hiring from many teams that he acted like an entitled narcissistic gen x who just graduated from college and showed up for his first professional interviews, unprepared, rude, disrespectful and unattentive..and it deservingly cost him dearly—costly lesson learned there.

But now he has an opportunity but going to be a very hard mountain to climb as rookie, fighting for 3rd QB slot (with another rookie drafted before him), going to be very hard to get practice snaps in training camp and pre-season to where he could showcase skills and ability to surpass both Flacco and Pickett (assume Watson is not ready to start season)..unless like Dak in 2016 as Cowboys had both Moore and Romo hurt during training camp and no veteran was traded for. It likely means more typical path for a development type QB drafted mid round, he will spend next few seasons on roster as 3rd QB (would they dare try to slip him onto their practice squad???) which would give him time behind the scenes to work on his game and coaches to help him improve while evaluating his potential. Of course problem is will son and father keep quiet or publicly demand he play. Will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

Paul on April 27, 2025 at 2:28 pm

“Just a thought wouldn’t it be much easier to have a shorter preliminary seniors list with deserving seniors than have a longer list with both deserving and undeserving seniors”

We have had a preliminary list of many (80+++++) for many years for the moderns as the list of those to be considered needs to start somewhere-why not let it be open nominations so all eligible can be on initial list and no one is missed??

At least now for modern and seniors we have non-voter screening committees to get those lists down to 50 each, before voters start their work to get to 25 and then 15/9.

I think for moderns, seniors, coaches and contributors we have a far better and more comprehensive process for candidates to be considered and series of votes to get to finalists in all four groups.

Of course my issue is once we get to the 15+3+2 finalists the Hall created a stupid final election process that creates classes of 4 or perhaps 5 total, and kills chances of deserving seniors, coach or contributor, classes too small and only increases backlog of deserving candidates

Brian wolf on April 27, 2025 at 11:45 pm

Good calls, Paul … with Kiper, he will defend a pick come-hell or high water, which does make for interesting tv, even if he is dead wrong. Yes, Shedeur screwed up in interviews and impressions but the personnel people had issues with the Colorado football program as well. It hurt the young QB, who was coddled by dad but enhanced Hunter, who could be a future HOF player like you mentioned — if he concentrates more on one position, which he wants to challenge. I dont believe any player today could even play 50 minutes a game, much less the whole game?

robert on April 28, 2025 at 12:50 am

lets just say i have a difference of opinions from you guys and leave it at that

Patrick on April 28, 2025 at 10:20 am

on what?

Paul on April 29, 2025 at 2:07 pm

opps that was weird – I posted my middle name by mistake-Paul

Robert on May 2, 2025 at 6:17 pm

Patrick in short: im in favor of seniors who played from 1970 onward most of the posters favor pre 1970’s seniors which im afraid the time for them to be inducted has sadly moved on

Paul on May 5, 2025 at 11:02 am

Robert I think many of us are in fact supportive of post 1970s seniors as well as pre 1970s..and perhaps time has past for those deserving pre 1970s players in terms of how the current voters and election rules view them…but doesn’t mean advocating for them should stop.

Its one thing to say there are no deserving pre 1970s seniors (compared to pool of post 1970s seniors), as that simply is not true…its different, and understandable, to not make that your focus because its also true that their chances are slim. Doesn’t mean I am going to agree that Joe Jacoby is more deserving then Al Wistert

Brian wolf on May 5, 2025 at 9:31 pm

Future HOF kicker Tucker was released by the Ravens. Will another team give him a shot? How much damage was done?

Andy p on May 6, 2025 at 2:05 am

Did any of you see Bill Belichick’s interview with CBS it’s official Jordon Hudson is controlling his life I think’s she really a gold digger out to get his money

Paul on May 6, 2025 at 10:00 am

Tucker is done in the league, if not because of his destroyed image and legal problems, but at age 35 he’s coming off his worst season…with kickers most often when it ends it ends..plenty of younger cheaper more reliable options if not his money..

Hudson is using his name and reputation to build her own career in PR…except she has done that work so poorly that unlikely anyone will hire her for that role….could be heading to OnlyFans….that personal and professional relation with BillB is going to end real soon-and very badly…..to point where UNC and NFL are likely starting to question his decision-making….

Robert ewing on May 6, 2025 at 2:35 pm

You summed everything up perfectly Paul 100% have zero objections to what you said

Question for the group if you had to pick 3 great seniors to go up against belichick and possibly kraft who would they be and why

Andy p on May 7, 2025 at 12:02 am

Paul do you think she’s a gold digger out to get his money

Andy p on May 7, 2025 at 12:05 am

Robert that’s a tough one I don’t know I thought you weren’t coming back until August or September

Robert ewing on May 7, 2025 at 12:09 am

Decided to come back early and I wouldn’t doubt if she was a gold digger

Tony P. on May 7, 2025 at 1:22 am

It’s a very good Class of 2025. I still think Sterling Sharpe is a close call. I’m of the opinion he may have had a better chance of making the HOF after getting hurt because he was dropping off his last couple years as he approached 30 years old. I think he was getting pretty beat up the way he was being used in the end. But we will never know. He did bag 18 TD’s in his last year. The somewhat obscure Robert Brooks the next year had more catches with 102, more yards with 1,500 yds, a better average at 14.7 and only a few less TD’s with 13 catching balls from Favre the Great.

i think Sharpe’s career may have looked like DeAndre Hopkins another 3/5. Do we think he is a HOF slam dunk now? Sometimes playing longer can hurt you.

Brian wolf on May 7, 2025 at 1:15 pm

Sharpe was more dominant than Hopkins who had a HOF trajectory until going to the Cardinals. Had he stayed with the Texans and Watson concentrated on football instead of away-from-the-team massage sessions, they both would have had better careers, though I am not sure if the team would have won more games?

Sharpe was a diva though, and demanded the ball, where Brooks was more into the team concept. I was a big fan of Brooks and felt he could have had a Mark Clayton-type of career had he stayed healthy. Favre was lucky that other receivers could develop, like Antonio Freeman and Donald Driver later, after Sharpe and Brooks went down.

This girl with Belichick is basically using him to launch her own ambitions, like Paul said. She may like him but knows what doors can possibly open up being attached to him. How many random girls can force their way on a SB commercial seen by billions? Gold digger or not, you have to admire her balls … haha

Robert on May 7, 2025 at 5:48 pm

Brian if you had to decide between the following three wide receivers for the hall who would you pick and why

Del Shofner

Harold Jackson

Billy Howton

Brian wolf on May 7, 2025 at 9:11 pm

Its close and difficult, Robert. Shofner makes the most sense, due to his All-Pro selections but Howton is deserving as well. Its interesting because Howton is very similar to a player that John Turney featured on TOFTWO … SF receiver Billy Wilson. Both were superb, tall, possession receivers who had sneaky speed. Both were top receptions leaders when they retired, with Howton being the all-time leader before being replaced by Raymond Berry, another great pass catcher. Only Berry has made the HOF.

Not to beat a dead horse, but you already know that I would take Jim Benton over any of these players because of his impact on teams adapting the T-Formation and the passing game, while helping two teams win championships. Jackson and Shofner became great deep threats.

What hurts Jackson is playing on Ground Chuck teams that believed in time of possession. His numbers reached HOF consideration once the rule changes in 77 and 78 went into effect, where he could put up 1000 yard seasons as he got older for the Patriots.

Of course, I also feel Art Powell should be in the HOF. His career was shorter but he scored too many TDs to be ignored … or rejected by the Hall.

robert on May 7, 2025 at 10:25 pm

Valid Points all around Brian i have zero Objections to what you said and actually ill agree with you on benton on the fact he should get a long hard look from the seniors hopefully soon in fact heres my top wr’s in no part order

Jim Benton

Gary Collins

Stanley Morgan

Art Powell

Del Shofner

Lionel Taylor

Billy Wilson

As a Added Bonus Brian here are my top 50’s-60’s Seniors

Maxie Baughan

Gino Brito

Joe Fortunato

Jimmy Patton

Tony P on May 7, 2025 at 10:54 pm

How would Harold Jackson compare to Cliff Branch and Paul Warfield? Lack of production with Miami’s ground game didn’t seem to hurt Warfield. I guess his skill level was much higher. If Jackson had won a SB or even gone to one maybe he would be in the HOF already.

Andy p on May 8, 2025 at 2:05 am

If you didn’t see Bill Belichick’s interview with CBS here’s a link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZStmSZoc_Ps

Brian wolf on May 8, 2025 at 8:12 am

Thats the thing … Branch, Warfield, Jackson, Otis Taylor all played on heavy running teams. Stanley Morgan early in his career as well.

TDs and championships seperate Warfield and Jackson, like you said, Tony P. Branch and Taylor were a big factor in championships as well. Had the Rams or Patriots won it all, Jackson might have made it by now. Morgan or Taylor might eventually get in but I doubt it.

The receiver cases you mentioned Robert, will probably not get voted in, but are remembered. We will see if any more pre-70s players get voted in but it may not happen. I think the seniors committee will change tact and nominate more recent players that have a chance for election. A Stanley Morgan or Ken Anderson will have a better chance than a Wistert, Lewellen or Shofner. We will see …

The Cowboys got Pickens to pair with Lamb but can the team keep Prescott healthy enough to get them the ball? Pickens needs to be a team player if he wants a big extension for the future. I STILL cant believe Rodgers hasnt signed with the Steelers? Speculation is that he doesnt want to be as involved in many prime-time games but he has no choice, the NFL will feature his passing, or whether he can stay healthy. Does he really want to keep playing?

Paul on May 8, 2025 at 1:41 pm

“Question for the group if you had to pick 3 great seniors to go up against belichick and possibly kraft who would they be and why“

Honestly given the current election math, if Belichick and Kraft are finalists (strong likelihood) no senior has chance of elected – it’s terrible but reality we are going to have to begin to accept

Brian wolf on May 8, 2025 at 7:44 pm

Kraft will wait. I see Ken Anderson and Belichick getting elected with hopefully, 3-4 moderns if the voting concentrates on the most deserving candidates. Can Fitz be first ballot like Brees? Can Kuechly have his chance? How far can Lynch and Gore advance, if at all?

Tony P. on May 8, 2025 at 11:11 pm

Are we talking about 3 contributors against Belichick? Art Rooney Jr. , Rooney Arledge and John McVay. Maybe I don’t know how it works anymore? They haven’t picked the Seniors yet?

Robert on May 9, 2025 at 1:57 am

3 senior players tony P

Brian wolf on May 9, 2025 at 11:55 am

Seniors will be picked towards November or early December, I believe?

Tony P. on May 9, 2025 at 10:25 pm

ok thanks.

Robert on May 10, 2025 at 6:50 pm

not a problem at all tony P glad to explain all and yes brian w hopefully its ken andersons turn in 2026 hes one of my three senior finalists

Patrick on May 11, 2025 at 11:11 am

Seniors BRP can select 3 finalists, coach BRP 1 finalist and Contributors 1 finalist-in a series of votes from preliminary to semifinalist 25 to 9..with selections of finalists completed in late Nov/early Dec

and we keep saying Kraft will wait, let he remains a top contender put forth in the process each year, and last years selection (and failure to elect) Hays revealed public comments at both stages, including by members of the full 50 member selection committee about why Hayes over Kraft-which indicates high interest from both the contributors BRP and the full selection committee-perhaps he’s not the class of 2026 contributor finalist but if Vegas was posting odds he would be the clear favorite.

Brees and Fitz will be first ballot modern, which leaves just 1 or 2 remaining slots-suspect LukeK and AdamV (made final round of 7 in 2025) as the top contenders for those two slots, could have both been elected in 2025 under the old rules that permitted 5 moderns.

Brian wolf on May 11, 2025 at 11:29 am

Like Paul had said in the past, the seniors and coaches committee nominees should have breezed into elections, but devisiveness has taken over the Hall Of Fame. Will the seniors, coaches/contributor committees continue to survive?

I still feel bad for the families and fans of Art Powell, Buddy Parker, Maxie Baughan, Jim Tyrer and Mike Holmgren, who were hoping to get endorsed and elected but fell short.

Why endorse nominees if the overrall voting members dont take their research and cutdown approach, seriously? The seniors committee in particular will probably continue to endorse the most worthy candidates but would they give in to recentism–1975 or beyond careers–to ensure the possible election of a nominee?

A very challenging year for all committees and voters, though I do predict more than four electees for 2026.

Andy p on May 11, 2025 at 4:49 pm

Brian totally

Andy p on May 11, 2025 at 4:55 pm

Paul why are you posting under your middle name Patrick that’s my name middle name too by the way

Can we at least put Robert Kraft in hasn’t he been through enough he shouldn’t be blamed for Spygate and Deflategate he’s not the one who taped those coaches and deflated those footballs he and I have something in common we’ve both been through a lot life has been hard for both of us

Paul on May 11, 2025 at 5:44 pm

I just prefer to go by Paul

Paul on May 11, 2025 at 5:55 pm

I don’t blame voters for the mess that was the 2025 by the math created by the hall under their new election rules

For moderns it takes min of 40 of 50 voters (80%) so when there are seven modern finalists and only 250 total votes (5 names from each 50 voters) you can get to three – Gates JAllen Ellen with 120 to 150 votes but that leaves 100-130 spread across four other finalists no one else gets 40 to be elected.

It’s the same problem with the other five yet even worse as there are 150 total voters (3 per voter) so Sharpe gets 40-50 leaving the other four to battle among 100-110 and none hits 40. Keeping in mind that rules don’t allow collusion among voters before or during meetings (aka vote deals or vote trading) so the 50 would have no way of knowing the general feelings among the voters during election meeting as to who the 2nd or 3rd other final are leading contenders

Brian wolf on May 12, 2025 at 12:19 am

Thats true, Andy P, but Kraft and Belichick are feuding in the most childish of ways, despite their great team success. It could hurt Belichick’s candidacy as well but I doubt it. He will get in first and we will see if they both go in together, next year. I am not seeing it.

I think that Hudson girl that Belichick is with, is a coke-head. I have seen pics of her with her thighs so skinny, you could wrap your hand around them. She is enjoying her 15 minutes of fame and might advance in her state beauty pageant. You cant make this stuff up … haha

Robert ewing on May 12, 2025 at 1:51 am

Your right Brian I doubt seriously they would put in both for various reasons right now but that could change

BTW I’ll be posting my top pre 1950s seniors shortly

Andy p on May 12, 2025 at 1:57 am

Brian we’ll just see what happens and your right about Jordon Hudson

Andy p on May 12, 2025 at 2:01 am

Brian she finished third in her state beauty pageant

Paul on May 12, 2025 at 1:10 pm

Voters will not care about a feud between Bill and Kraft, and those two respective BRPs (neither of whom got a finalist elected in 2026, will be strongly motivated to bring forward the best of their best) know that those two will have support among the full committee as they both will clearly be viewed by all voters as the top candidates in those respective categories. Perhaps due to the math only one gets elected…but regardless it certainly seems that it will not matter who the senior BRP advances (Ken Anderson, Lester Hayes, Bob Kuechenberg???) as they are doomed by the new election math.

Andy p on May 12, 2025 at 11:43 pm

Paul well said but we’ll just see what happens

Andy p on May 12, 2025 at 11:50 pm

I might sue the Pro Football Hall of Fame on behalf on those who’ve been snubbed for so long and I want you all here to testify as well as those who used to comment here to testify on my behalf

Plaintiff suffered anger emotional trauma emotional distress pain suffering permanent injury and loss of enjoyment of life this is what the lawsuit is going to say

I’m willing to take on anything

Paul on May 13, 2025 at 2:06 pm

So as a public finalist for a promotion with the company I work for I can sue for emotional distress when not selected?

Can Emmy, Oscar and Grammy finalists who were not selected as winner also do the same??

Ok………..

Robert E. on May 13, 2025 at 4:39 pm

Andy thats a bad idea on so many levels

Brian wolf on May 13, 2025 at 11:21 pm

Lets hope Andy P, you have other interests and hobbies that dont stress you as much. Everytime I hear todays’ dance music, I go through pain, distress and suffering … haha

“Gotta roll with the punches” …

Andy p on May 13, 2025 at 11:33 pm

Yeah your right it’s just the Pro Football Hall of Fame was wrong to make these changes and I guess I’m just expressing how I feel I’m sure you feel the same way I do

Andy p on May 13, 2025 at 11:38 pm

Brian your right I get what your saying I do have other interests and hobbies like the National Baseball Hall of Fame also did you see my post about Jordon Hudson coming in third place in her state beauty pageant

Brian wolf on May 14, 2025 at 1:02 pm

Yep … also heard she was considered for freakin Dancing with the Stars but wants to work with Belichick’s publicity-branding more.

Good for her, I am not bringing her up again.

I like the Baseball and Basketball HOFs but they are much worse than the NFLs version. They allow too many players in … the PFHOF still doesnt have 3% of its total history of players elected. Way too many smaller classes since 1963. I think the voting will change again by 2027.

The Madden film will be coming out soon with Nic Cage playing John and Christian Bale playing Al Davis!

Andy p on May 15, 2025 at 12:08 am

Brian you might have to bring her up again if and when he breaks up with her I don’t agree with what you say about the Baseball Hall of Fame I’m a member of the Baseball Hall of Fame

Brian wolf on May 15, 2025 at 8:25 am

I know the Baseball HOF can be difficult to enter, unless “special committees” help push in players.

The Commissioner, Rob Manfred, must have gotten nudged by Trump to reinstate Pete Rose and Joe Jackson, who now have a chance to make the HOF. I figured Rose might get consideration after his death but we will see about “Shoeless Joe”.
If you havent seen the movie Eight Men Out, Andy P … you should. In my view, the best sports movie ever made, though Ken Burns baseball documentary is the best non-fiction production.

Sorry, but I dont agree with the potential, Golden at-bat rule …

Back to football, and me shaking my head as usual to all the primetime and non-sunday games–and international games away from home stadiums–that the NFL continues to force down our throat, with the new schedule for 2025.

Why not just schedule a night game for every single day of the week? … haha, its getting closer each year.

PAUL on May 15, 2025 at 12:22 pm

NFL forces games down fans throats as they know millions will watch (and likely millions more than last season)..for us purists who have been fans for many years (me its most 50 yrs) its annoying but a trend ongoing for many years..for me I follow the year, and games, via online and social media , more so than watching large numbers of complete games as I simply don’t have the time, energy and interest to watch multiple 3-4hr games each week.
I am a huge advocate and viewer of RedZone on Sundays.

I have no idea who influenced MLB to reinstate the players, I know it has been a process an and conversation in recent years, and personally I am not a fan of any public figure including elected politician who decides to jump onto the discussion in support of an action and then claims (or their supporters do) that he/she was reason decision was made-its usually not the case and was not this time.

Brian wolf on May 15, 2025 at 4:12 pm

I think last year, if I am not mistaken, a night game was scheduled covering every night except a wedsnday. Mind boggling when you think about it. Fans do constantly watch, so I misused the term of them forcing them down our throats because I mostly watch on sunday or monday night. I never watch on thurs or hardly ever during other days, unless the game is huge.

I used to watch RedZone alot but also felt the league wanted to delay the starts of games and scores to keep up with all scoring and defensive plays. Not as real-time as they want you to believe but I might be wrong … haha

Of course, if satellite-multiple game-packages, which resulted in RedZone, had been around in the late 1980s and early 90s with more desperate defensive football, there would have been looong stretches between scores. Satellite coverage–the league is still trying to eventually take the game to total pay-per-view–opened huge revenue doors in the 2000s.

Andy p on May 19, 2025 at 4:52 pm

I wish you could have seen the anger and disappointment on my face when I saw the Class of 2025 was only four members

Andy p on May 19, 2025 at 4:53 pm

Simeon Rice is going into the Buccaneers Ring of Honor what do you think about him as a Hall of Famer

Robert ewing on May 19, 2025 at 4:54 pm

Andy Can we please move on from that at this point it’s getting old and stale

Andy p on May 19, 2025 at 4:55 pm

Jim Tyrer’s children have said this the man who shot our mom was not our dad

Andy p on May 19, 2025 at 4:56 pm

Robert I can’t help it

Paul on May 20, 2025 at 9:57 am

on a recent Football Learning Academy podcast, PFHOF PR staff Rich Desrosiers indicated that for the class of 2025 election, only a few votes keep 1 or 2 moderns out, and same for 1 more from the group of 5 (obviously he did not say which candidates)..but for the group of 5 its likely to assume MikeH was that close as to moderns perhaps Holt and AdamV??

so although we should prepare for another small class in 2026..maybe the math will work a little better in terms of electing 5 or 6 instead of 4….but going to be impossible to predict when a shift of only a few votes could make that much of a difference in the final outcome

Robert ewing on May 21, 2025 at 8:08 pm

Appreciate that nugget of info paul didn’t know that when you get a chance I have a follow up question

Paul on May 23, 2025 at 12:14 pm

follow-up question?

Robert ewing on May 23, 2025 at 2:22 pm

Let’s say we get three modern again could we possibly get 1 senior and 1 coach or 1 senior 1 coach and one contributor

Paul on May 24, 2025 at 8:46 am

Any combo is possible – would say 5 total more likely than 6

Robert ewing on May 24, 2025 at 8:02 pm

Appreciate the feedback 5 inducteees does seem possible according to what said

Paul on May 25, 2025 at 11:18 am

yea we aren’t going to get 5 moderns or 3 from the other group of 5..if votes were close in 2025 it does seem that 4+2 is possible,and frankly a good solid total…but those close vote counts in 2025 also show us how harder it is to predict results when just 1-2 votes can make the difference between 4 and 6 (likely an outcome the Hall also intended-less predictable classes)..we likely still need to temper our thoughts and expectations to 5-6 class size as best outcome under current rules

Robert ewing on May 25, 2025 at 8:32 pm

Agreed and it depends mostly on 1. Who are the seniors 2. Who Will be the coach and Contributors 3.what will the cut down for the moderns be like

Paul on May 26, 2025 at 1:01 pm

The cutdown to 7 modern will have very strong set of contributors – vote splits are again very likely might get 3-4 but no way to know as one-two voters could get us the 4th

Robert ewing on May 27, 2025 at 7:23 am

Appreciate the additional clarification paul i understand completely 100% what your saying

Paul on May 27, 2025 at 8:21 am

I just think what we now know about the class of 2025 voting, its going to be very hard to predict # of candidates elected…but with a swing of even a few votes it could be a class larger than just 4. Of course difference of just 1-2 votes makes it very unpredictable.

But I really do think that if Kraft and BillB are finalists, its going to be very hard for any senior to get elected-which is very unfortunate

Andy p on May 27, 2025 at 4:52 pm

If that’s the case here’s my prediction for the Class of 2026

Drew Brees
Larry Fitzgerald
Bill Belichick
Robert Kraft

Paul on May 28, 2025 at 2:27 pm

I think thats the most possible outcome..perhaps if the voters fall right we could also get LukeK or AdamV…but would voters elect 3 from the Patriots…hmmmmmm…no one else is reaching final year of modern who has also moved along in the process to point where they would jump that queue. I suppose Holt and WAnderson are possible but can’t see 4 moderns due to the math.

Those four plus LukeK would make for a very good class, no debates about if deserving..and 2 offense, 1 defense, 1 coach, 1 contributor..four teams represented…NOLA and NE fans would flood Canton for the events.

Hate to see class with no seniors but otherwise it looks good to me

Paul on May 29, 2025 at 10:19 am

correction-can’t see 5 moderns due to the math

but we could end up with 4 – Brees/Fitz/WAnderson/LukeK (Holt as 2nd WR seems less likely)

Only modern candidate entering last year on modern ballot with possible resume is Neil Smith – but has not even been semi-finalist and seems very unlikely he jumps the queue right into final 15 for consideration of class of 2026

Andy p on May 29, 2025 at 4:56 pm

Paul unless the Pro Football Hall of Fame changes the process again which I hope they do because this new process isn’t working

Paul on May 29, 2025 at 8:05 pm

Andy I think we will eventually get changes but everything I have read and heard recently is that no election rule changes for class of 2026 process as Hall wants another year before reassessing

Andy p on May 29, 2025 at 11:00 pm

Paul we’ll just see what happens

Paul on May 31, 2025 at 8:34 pm

Well obviously……

Tony - ZB on June 3, 2025 at 2:17 pm

RIP Vikings Legend Jim Marshall.

Tony P. on June 3, 2025 at 8:47 pm

Ditto that Tony. A really good football player for a very long time.

Brian wolf on June 8, 2025 at 1:56 am

Jim Marshall …

RIP

Paul on June 8, 2025 at 9:11 am

With Rodgers returning we still really only have one current class of 2030 first ballot contender (unless Von Miller is done) – Zack Martin

Andy p on June 8, 2025 at 4:34 pm

I know this question has been asked before but I’m going to ask it again how will the Pro Bowl the way it is now affect Hall of Fame selections going forward

Andy p on June 8, 2025 at 4:35 pm

Can we just get rid of the Pro Bowl and make it an honor instead of an event

Brian wolf on June 8, 2025 at 5:42 pm

Yeah, Rodgers waited till the last minute to sign. He also isnt playing for 10 million, like he said he would do. We will see if he can stay healthy and run a ball-control attack that might make a postseason run. At some point though, the Steelers have to find their young QB for the future unless Howard can get better.

You brought up Simeon Rice, Andy P, but you wonder if he has to wait behind other pass rushers like Mathis, Suggs and Abraham, who all forced alot of fumbles as well. Free agency seemed to hurt Abraham, who played when he wanted, looking for big paydays but moved alot. Still, a gifted player who might have already made the HOF if he had stuck with the Jets. With the Falcons, his sacks went up but wasnt in on nearly as many tackles.
The Darrelle Revis of pass rushers.

I feel Von Miller will help a good team later in training camp, but will need to show alot to stick around. He just disappointed too much with the Bills in postseason. Can this team ever get to another SB? Joey Bosa is already getting nicked up.

Patrick on June 9, 2025 at 4:00 pm

voters are already well aware of the joke that is pro bowl voting (and all the replacements) to point where even though fans and some others in media still like to use as part of considering a players PFHOF resume, post 2010 players are not going be be viewed that way by voters… I agree get rid of it, amend the NFL/NFLPA CBA to remove contract incentives based on ProBowl and replace with selection of all pro teams and NFC/AFC all conference teams

Paul on June 9, 2025 at 4:05 pm

As to Simeon Rice, Mathis, Suggs and Abraham…and other recently retired players…given current election rules and small class size, unless you advance at least into the semi-finalist list soon after eligible your chances of eventual election decline considerably. Prospects for election for Rice and Abraham are really in a bind.

Robert on June 12, 2025 at 6:01 pm

lets wait and see year by year with the classes

Andy p on June 15, 2025 at 11:57 pm

The two greatest owners not in Canton are Robert Kraft and Clint Murchison but you already knew that

Paul on June 16, 2025 at 1:39 pm

I would say Kraft is likely the contributor finalist for class of 2026 (but of course I have the same for recent elections…) and if he is, I am certain he will be elected

Andy p on June 16, 2025 at 4:55 pm

The contributor committee has got to make Robert Kraft the contributor finalist so they can address Clint Murchison

I feel bad for Stacey James the Patriots PR chief since 1993 who’s worked harder than anyone to get Robert Kraft in the Pro Football Hall of Fame but with no success he’s stopped his lobbying though

Robert Kraft shouldn’t be blamed for Spygate and Deflategate he’s not the one who taped those coaches and deflated those footballs

Anyone here ever been to the Pro Football Hall of Fame Don Van Natta Jr’s article says when you walk through the Pro Football Hall of Fame Kraft is nearly invisible here’s what he says

Where the Patriots dynasty is in the spotlight, there are displays featuring Tom Brady’s game jerseys and Bill Belichick’s hoodie and footballs from famous moments, such as Ellis Hobbs’ 108-yard kickoff return against the Jets in 2007. There’s nothing belonging to the Patriots owner, not even a display of his custom Nike Air Force 1s. Where the Hall lavishes credit on the NFL for helping heal the country after 9/11, there’s no video of Kraft’s famous “We are all Patriots” moment.

There are three photos of Kraft, all on the Hall’s first floor in a confined space that’s easy to miss. He’s in a group photo of NFL team owners. And then his image is on a wall, in a display about stadiums. The Hall uses the same photo, of Kraft holding a Lombardi Trophy, twice within a 4-foot space. One is small; the other is bigger. The bigger one is dwarfed by the photo next to it, of Jerry Jones and his moneyed smirk.

I have no plans to the watch the Dynasty has anyone here watched it

I really want to see Robert Kraft with a gold jacket on stage not in the crowd when I go to Canton in 2028 for Tom Brady’s Hall of Fame and I hope he gets elected before 2028

Brian wolf on June 17, 2025 at 1:25 pm

Antonio Brown will be awaiting election awhile himself. Sad and deranged

Robert on June 19, 2025 at 11:48 pm

There is no way i can see Antonio Brown getting into the hall of fame ever as a modern or a senior

Andy most likley Kraft will be the contributor nominee for 2026 after that i dont think they will go for another owner for a while

Andy p on June 20, 2025 at 1:56 am

Robert we’ll just see what happens

Andy p on June 21, 2025 at 1:42 am

Robert the contributor has to got to address Clint Murchison and make him the contributor finalist after Robert Kraft gets in I would love to see him get elected in 2028 so he can go in with Tom Brady how fitting would it be for the founder and first owner of America’s Team to go in with the greatest quarterback of all time

Tony P. on June 25, 2025 at 12:58 pm

Who are the players who if they never played another game are in the HOF? Aaron Rodgers, Travis Kelce, Patrick Mahomes and Derrick Henry come to mind.

Brian wolf on June 25, 2025 at 1:23 pm

For active players … HOF

TJ Watt
Rodgers
Kelce
Mahomes
Tyreek Hill
Henry
Miller … though may retire?
Evans
Wilson
Garrett
Kittle
Warner
Williams
Adams

More but injuries could play a role?

Tony P. on June 26, 2025 at 8:10 pm

Thanks. That’s a good list! I’ll see if I can add to.

Tony P. on June 26, 2025 at 8:42 pm

I think 2/6 Kittle and 4/4 Warner are currently a little short but who knows for sure. I say short because Kittle is living in a time of high use TE excellence. He needs a couple more years and only 45 TD’s is not too impressive. I suppose one needs to consider his blocking? Warner is on the HOF path but short a couple years and only 10 sacks for an OLB.

What do you think about 4/6 Jahri Evans 2010 All Decade Team 183 games played, Super Bowl winner and his New Orleans teammate 1/8 Cameron Jordan DE 121.5 sacks and 2010 All Decade Team??

Brian wolf on June 28, 2025 at 4:27 pm

Yeah, Kittle isnt ready for the HOF yet but his blocking is better than alot of tackles but needs to get to at least 8500 receiving yards to have a great shot unless he gets hurt. Still, if it wasnt for a HOF QB in Mahomes, Kittle would already have two championships and is one of the reasons for the teams’ high level of play …

Warner doesnt need sacks as he is a tackling machine from sideline-to-sideline in an era where defensive players dont want to mix it up like the past. Like Kittle, he could have SBs himself but the HC blew them with play-calling. Still, he will approach the same accolades as Willis and Bowman and should make the HOF.

Cameron Jordan and Cameron Heyward both have HOF resumes but lack a championship as well. They have cases but still need to have solid endings to their careers but just miss, if they retired now.

I feel Chris Jones and Lane Johnson could also enter the Hall if they retired now. Jahri Evans has already retired and should enter soon enough but you never know till Martin is elected.

If Hopkins can help Baltimore go all the way, he will eventually get enshrined as well but will wait awhile.

Paul on June 30, 2025 at 2:26 pm

2020s all decade team selections would be key for many of these current players (more so if small class sizes continue)…Jordan,Heyward,Jones,Johnson etc…

Andy p on June 30, 2025 at 4:57 pm

I want to apologize for talking so much about my disappointment about the Class of 2025 being only four members I’m happy for Eric Allen Jared Allen Antonio Gates and Sterling Sharpe but I’d feel better if Torry Holt Darren Woodson and Mike Holmgren were part of this class the only good thing about this year’s class is we’ll have a fast induction ceremony I’m expressing how I feel when I talk about my disappointment I’m glad we all are upset not just me

robert on June 30, 2025 at 5:34 pm

andy i think we can all agree that selecting tyrer was a horrible horrible idea and most likley sunk his and baughan’s chances can we agree

Andy p on June 30, 2025 at 8:52 pm

Robert I kind of agree yes what Jim Tyree did was wrong but I want to share you some things

Jim Tyrer’s children have said this the man who shot our mom was not our dad

Ron Borges wrote this letter to the selection committee

https://halloffootball.substack.com/p/jim-tyrer-hof-sr-selectors-insight

As much as I love football I’m glad I don’t play it this sport takes a toll on your body and your brain

As for Maxie Baughan not being selected Rick Gosselin was right the selection committee has gotten younger not older

Robert on June 30, 2025 at 9:17 pm

i remember reading that about tyrer once and i agree with what your saying with tyrer in terms of baughan seletors are now younger and most likley will vote for younger seniors who are living

Paul on July 1, 2025 at 12:41 pm

plus given the current election process, with BillB and Kraft also likely among the group of 5 finalists..the voting math would seem to suggest its a real possibility that NO senior is elected to the class of 2026-recent (younger) or past (older) candidate

Robert ewing on July 1, 2025 at 8:26 pm

Let’s wait and see what happens paul things could change sometimes people on here overreact

Paul on July 2, 2025 at 9:29 am

perhaps but we understand the math from the class of 2025 election, so seems reasonable to suggest that we are not going to get 3 elected from group of five in class of 2026 as that math has not changed..and I think overall, us here are pretty good in understanding trends and the ebb/flow of voting and elections. I just think that situation regarding seniors for class of 2026 is one we need to be aware of

Paul on July 6, 2025 at 12:00 pm

a few reminders for class of 2026 election announcements:

– Hall is currently accepting nominations for the class of 2026 ballots, anyone can sent in names, Hall reviews two drafts of the preliminary lists with voters before finalizing and releasing in september

– if we go by timing last year- not assured as Hall does not stick to set schedule nor post any release dates – it should go like this: preliminary lists modern/senior (mid-late Sept), 50 semifinalists lists for each group (mid-late Oct), 25 semifinalists lists (mid-late Nov), group of 5 finalists (Dec). 15 modern finalists (late Dec)

– and we don’t see preliminary lists for coaches and contributor but last fall Hall released lists of 25 semi-finalist contributors and 12 coaches in mid Oct, followed soon after by 9 finalists for each category

– so yea if one is counting, between mid Sept and late Dec, that is total of 12 announcements…..

Robert ewing on July 7, 2025 at 7:57 pm

Appreciate the info paul thanks for the timeline

Andy p on July 10, 2025 at 11:10 pm

This has been a tough year for me not just because of the Lions losing in the first round and the small Class of 2025 I have a new challenge I’m facing in March at my other job at the wine and spirits store I had a seizure and had to be hospitalized I had another seizure at the ballpark I found I have a seizure disorder I’m going to be on anti seizure medication for the rest of my life

robert on July 11, 2025 at 12:58 am

sorry to hear about your health andy if you need to take a break from the site its ok we understand

Andy p on July 11, 2025 at 1:27 am

Robert I’m fine thank you for your concern

Paul on July 11, 2025 at 10:52 am

take care everyone-as one’s health is the most important thing in our lives

nothing we do or say here, or any aspects of our fandom, come close to that….

Andy p on July 11, 2025 at 7:41 pm

Paul thanks I appreciate that

Brian wolf on July 17, 2025 at 4:21 am

Take it easy Andy P … the medication will help you. Hope youre getting checked for tumors, etc …

Like Paul and Robert mentioned, our health is what matters. Other than family and those we love, everything else is secondary.

Brian wolf on July 17, 2025 at 11:56 am

Looks like Von Miller will be playing for the Commanders this year. Hopefully, they put him on the right pitch count for pass rush situations.

Ndamukong Suh has officially retired. Dirty reputation or not, we will see if he eventually gets elected. I feel he is deserving but will wait awhile …

Andy p on July 17, 2025 at 8:40 pm

Brian thanks I’m doing fine

Andy p on July 17, 2025 at 8:46 pm

Robert Kraft and Bill Belichick need to put their feud aside because they’ll likely be on stage next year if they go into the Pro Football Hall of Fame together

I wonder why they have a feud they won 6 Super Bowls together with the greatest quarterback of all time Tom Brady

Has anyone here watched the Dynasty I haven’t and I have no plans to

Paul on July 20, 2025 at 12:36 pm

I am not really the feud is a bitter or serious as some suggest, more likely hyped up by media, PR and those looking to sell books or get social media attention…doubt it is even an usual nor would be one between them next August in Canton

Paul on July 20, 2025 at 12:39 pm

And If Von and Aaron play just one snap in a game this season, their PFHOF eligibility clock resets…leaving Zack Martin as the only serious contender for class of 2030 first ballot.

Paul on July 20, 2025 at 12:47 pm

Recent retirees Jason Peters, Patrick Peterson, Julio Jones were not on a game day 53 man roster in 2024 season, so that started their 5 yr clock for class of 2029 (2024-2028=5 seasons)

and Suh last played in 2022, eligible for class of 2028 (2023-2027=5 seasons)

Andy p on July 20, 2025 at 9:05 pm

Paul then how do you explain the fact that Bill Belichick didn’t mention Robert Kraft in his book

Brian wolf on July 21, 2025 at 2:51 am

It wont matter guys, they both wont get elected next year. Kraft will not take the place of a player, modern or senior. Belichick will get elected first.

Paul on July 21, 2025 at 8:39 am

Kraft is not competing against a modern player so that’s not even relevant, and we all know from public comments during the class of 2025 process when Hay was selected as the contributor finalists that many members of the full voting committee stated that Kraft would have been better candidate and should have been the finalist. Based on the that reality, contributors BRP know their own path for class of 2026 is to select Kraft as their finalist, he only needs 40 out of 150 ballots to be elected, there is a clear path for both BillB and Kraft to be elected. And likely means all 3 senior finalists are doomed as voters don’t need to chose between coach and contributor, they can give both 40+ votes to election. Normally I would agree that voters would support a senior player over a coach and contributor but current system plus the very high profile for Bill and Kraft, plus very strong resumes (and voters having little interest in pre 1980s seniors) places them among the top of the group of 5

Andy p on July 21, 2025 at 11:51 pm

Here’s something voters need to know Robert Kraft shouldn’t be blamed for Spygate and Deflategate he’s not the one who taped those coaches and deflated those footballs

You want know an interesting fact during high school he was unable to participate in most sports because it interfered with his after school Hebrew studies and observance of the Sabbath

Stacey James the Patriots PR chief since 1993 who’s worked harder than anyone to get Robert Kraft in the Pro Football Hall of Fame but with no success and has since stopped his lobbying told Don Van Natta Jr for his ESPN article on Robert’s Kraft Hall of Fame quest I feel Robert Kraft has no peers when it comes to his contribution in the National Football League he also said I’m a big of Jimmy Stewart’s It’s a Wonderful Life if Robert Kraft wasn’t born there would no NFL team in New England and to that I would there would be no Patriots dynasty either

I wish he had never made the Dynasty documentary because all it did was criticize Bill Belichick despite the fact that they won six Super Bowls with the greatest quarterback of all time Tom Brady and focus on every scandal not involving Robert Kraft

The voters need to put aside the scandals and make Robert Kraft the contributor finalist I would love to see him with a gold jacket on stage not in the crowd when I go to Canton in 2028 for Tom Brady’s Hall of Fame induction

Paul on July 22, 2025 at 12:13 pm

Again given what we heard from several voters (members of the full committee) last year, they supported Kraft – more so than Hay – so I have no doubt that if a finalist he would secure the 40 voters needed to be elected

Andy p on July 22, 2025 at 11:46 pm

Paul well if that’s the case let’s hope it happens

Paul on July 23, 2025 at 8:03 am

No guarantees but seems likely that’s a very possible outcome

Andy p on July 23, 2025 at 4:45 pm

Paul I hope so

Brian wolf on July 24, 2025 at 2:12 am

The Honey Badger has retired as well. Very versatile but could be a possible safety candidate down the road. I feel he wont make it but was hoping he would play this season. With the Saints not trying to bring in a veteran to challenge the other QBs, he probably felt the year was a lost cause. Can Shough develop quick enough?

Andy p on July 24, 2025 at 11:50 pm

According to the Patriots media guide Robert Kraft has the highest winning percentage among all owners the others are Eddie DeBartalo Jr Clint Murchison Joe Robbie and Pat Bowlen

If that’s doesn’t tell you Robert Kraft and Clint Murchison belong in the Pro Football Hall of Fame I don’t know what does

What do you think about Joe Robbie as a Hall of Famer

I just don’t get what voters have against Robert Kraft and Clint Murchison for the Pro Football Hall of Fame

Paul on July 25, 2025 at 9:51 am

I don’t think the 50 voters have anything against Kraft but clearly the contributors committee has pressed for and advanced others they feel are more deserving and we do know from some unofficial chatter online that Kraft has been among top 2 or 3 contributors considered in recent years. Also worth noting there have been few elections with direct path to election for contributors (many competed directly with coaches) and we saw voters preferring GMs/scouts and then started to select owners…but his time will come soon as he’s at top of list considered each election recently. So I would not worry about his eventual election.

Robert on July 27, 2025 at 6:40 pm

Neither would i paul his election is coming sooner rather than later btw im back full time on this site

Andy p on July 27, 2025 at 8:52 pm

Robert hope so what makes you say that and why are you back full time

Brian wolf on July 28, 2025 at 2:34 pm

Its simple Andy P … Robert is the greatest …

For Paul it doesnt matter who comes out on top for the seniors, coaches or contributors, will they get enough votes to make the HOF with a few moderns? Belichick will but I dont see Kraft joining him this year … If I am wrong, I will get on here and sing a sad song … haha.
Would it be ideal and possible for both, yes, but we will be lucky to even have a five man class and I feel another veteran thats close to the senior abyss, like Eric Allen was, could get a chance … hopefully Wisniewski, Webb or someone else?

Paul, who else is in their final or next to final year of eligibility? I stubbornly believe Darren Woodson will get his due. Especially with Earl Thomas on the docket …

Robert ewing on July 28, 2025 at 2:59 pm

Brian:

Wisniewski Last year as a modern

Watters: last year as a modern

Webb-2027

Woodson-2028

Paul on July 28, 2025 at 3:17 pm

since the group of 5 is voted on first and separately from the modern candidates, I don’t see any reason why 1 or even 2 of those would be elected as that process has noting to do with the moderns…which could be 3 or perhaps 4. No real way to know for sure. But if BillB and Kraft are among the group of 5 for which there are 150 total votes its very possible they each get the 40+ needed as they clearly have strong resumes and would have widespread support among the voters

last year on modern ballot-Steve Wisniewski, Carnell Lake, Mark Stepnoski, Randall Cunningham, Erik Williams, Eric Allen, Ricky Watters..and only Watters has been recent semi-finalist, others have not which as voting history shows us they have no chance at election as moderns, regardless of class size issues. Watters might make finalist but I am not even sure that happens as its going to be a very tight group of 15 to get into

Paul on July 28, 2025 at 3:20 pm

future lists of last year as modern candidate:

Class of 2027 (last season 2002) Lomas Brown, Herman Moore, Eric Metcalf, Levon Kirkland, Richmond Webb, Hardy Nickerson

Class of 2028 (last season 2003) Jessie Armstead, Wesley Walls, Brian Mitchell, Michael Bates, Dana Stubblefield, Larry Centers, Darren Woodson

Of this group the only one who appears to have a path to election is Woodson who finished in final 10 the last two elections, if voters were careful enough to make sure EAllen got in, its seems likely they will do same for Woodson as soon as perhaps class of 2027

Robert ewing on July 28, 2025 at 3:49 pm

Appreciate the additional information Paul

Brian wolf on July 28, 2025 at 10:28 pm

Thanks … its too bad Erik Williams and Stepnoski cant get voted in. Hopefully, Woodson will.

Yeah Robert, Wiz and Webb need to get going in a hurry if they have any chance before the senior abyss. Eric Allen was a surprise, maybe another one could happen. Watters could be a darkhorse as well, if Taylor could slide. After dismal results for seniors over the last two years, maybe a more recent candidate like Albert Lewis, Stanley Morgan or someone else–Lester Hayes–might emerge? Lets hope somebody …

Paul on July 29, 2025 at 9:44 am

Eric Allen began to make his move up the list to a finalist, starting with becoming semi-finalist in 2021and finalist starting in 2024 , to elected 2025…whereas Wiz (2026 last year as modern) and Webb (2027 last year as modern) have not yet even been semi-finalist…. “hail mary” elections of players at very end of their modern eligibility simply does not happen.
Watters (semifinalist since 2022) at least has a chance as voters realizing its his last year push him into the finalist round so he can be discussed (as they did in recent past for Walls, Matthews Jr, and Lewis-but none were elected)

But if are looking at class of 3 or 4, how would Watters even make it past Brees, Fitz, AdamV/LukeK or even WAnderson?? As I said before, not having 5 moderns per year really hurts the moderns running out of time on ballot as there simply is not room to get them elected. At least EAllen had a history of 5 years advancing along in the process.

Andy p on July 30, 2025 at 1:56 am

I’m going to be honest about Tom Brady‘s last year I just don’t think that he and the Buccaneers were really into it throughout the 2022 season and the Wild Card game against the Cowboys Tom Brady felt like he was by himself he didn’t have an offensive he didn’t have a wide receiver people say he was miserable at the end of his career with the Patriots I think he was miserable his last year too the same problems he had at the end of his career with the Patriots I think they were there his last year too

Andy p on July 30, 2025 at 4:41 pm

As you know Don Van Natta Jr wrote an article for ESPN about Robert Kraft’s Hall of Fame quest which I shared with all of you here I just sent him an email asking him to write an article about Clint Murchison I’ll let you know if he responds

Andy p on July 31, 2025 at 1:55 am

Here’s Frank Cooney’s latest article

https://halloffootball.substack.com/p/revealing-study-hof-class-of-2025

Paul on July 31, 2025 at 9:33 am

yea in the last year or so Cooney has become the most transparent and outspoken PFHOF voter with numerous articles-one of only a few voters (Judge being most notable) who write frankly about Hall election process and results…he’s worth following…

Not sure his plea for 4 senior/coach/contributors + 4 moderns is going to resonate with the Hall any time soon as sure seems like we are in the era of small classes-at least for now, seems unlikely we will get any changes for class of 2026 (would need approval of board who meets this week in Canton)…perhaps for 2027..time will tell…but I think we may get 4 moderns in class of 2026 only as voters are now more familiar with new rules and impact on class size,alas we will need to wait until next February to know

Andy p on July 31, 2025 at 4:33 pm

The only good thing about this year’s class is we’ll have a fast induction ceremony

Andy p on July 31, 2025 at 4:50 pm

The last time four members elected were elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2005 it was also the last time a pre 60s candidate was elected by the selection committee they elected two Benny Friedman and Fritz Pollard since we haven’t seen a pre 60s candidate elected by the selection committee the only time a pre 60s finalist was considered by the selection was when Marshall Goldberg was considered in 2008 and he didn’t make it and the only other time we’ve seen a pre 60s finalist elected was by the Blue Ribbon Panel for the Centennial Class they elected four Bobby Dillon Duke Slater Mac Speedie and Ed Sprinkle while leaving out Lavvie Dilweg Verne Lewellen Cecil Isbell and Al Wistert also Buddy Parker and Ralph Hay

This is why the Pro Football Hall of Fame should have been founded earlier

Andy p on July 31, 2025 at 4:50 pm

Whoops forgot Ox Emerson

Andy p on July 31, 2025 at 4:53 pm

The last time four members elected were elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2005 it was also the last time a pre 60s candidate was elected by the selection committee they elected two Benny Friedman and Fritz Pollard since we haven’t seen a pre 60s candidate elected by the selection committee the only time a pre 60s finalist was considered by the selection was when Marshall Goldberg was considered in 2008 and he didn’t make it and the only other time we’ve seen a pre 60s finalist elected was by the Blue Ribbon Panel for the Centennial Class they elected four Bobby Dillon Duke Slater Mac Speedie and Ed Sprinkle while leaving out Lavvie Dilweg Verne Lewellen Ox Emerson Cecil Isbell and Al Wistert also Buddy Parker and Ralph Hay

This is why the Pro Football Hall of Fame should have been founded earlier

Sorry I’m posting this again I forgot to include Ox Emerson

Andy p on July 31, 2025 at 4:56 pm

Guys I just learned Talk of Fame is closing

https://talkoffametwo.com/nfl/talk-of-fame-two-closes

Paul on July 31, 2025 at 6:32 pm

Yea sad to see TOF2 end today .. hoping Turney and Judge find another outlet, in meantime they are on hiatus for August -perhaps longer. For several years they have been the key source for Hall election news and discussions

Paul on August 1, 2025 at 12:36 pm

I understand from Judge is that they/he are looking at other forum-he is hopeful and optimistic it will return eventually in some format/forum

Brian wolf on August 2, 2025 at 2:30 am

It is sad about TOFTWO … I dont understand why the PFHOF themselves dont absorb them for their own bland site? At least these guys can keep the voters on their toes.

Hopefully, Clark Judge can do more writing for Turney’s ProFootballJounal site. Rick Gosselin’s site is good but he is being bombarded by people trying to lure bitcoin investors through the comments sections. Could TOFTWO find safe harbor with the Sporting News site?

Though he recently got released from ESPN over misconduct allegations–that were settled out of court–Shannon Sharpe will have a great introduction for his brother this weekend. I still remember him pleading for a re-evaluation of Sterling’s career during his own HOF-induction speech.

With Jared Allen being inducted, hopefully he can make a plea to the voters for his teammate, Kevin Williams to be voted in, sooner, rather than later. With the “Williams Wall” stuffing the run and getting penetration for the Vikings–Pat Williams also had a good career–it allowed Jared to mostly just focus on getting to the QB, though Allen could make stuffs in the backfield as well.

Happy for Eric Allen and Gates as well. Hopefully, Jason Witten wont have to wait for very long to get elected, once Gronk gets in first ballot. I didnt agree with the TOFTWO panel that kept him out of their top 10 All-Time list. I felt only Casper, Mackey, Ditka and Bavaro blocked better than he did, regardless of his great stats and longevity.

Andy p on August 2, 2025 at 7:34 pm

Brian what do you mean why can’t the PFHOF themselves don’t absorb them for their own bland site and why is the PFHOF site bland what do you mean these voter can keep the voters on their toes and you’re right about Kevin Williams

Brian wolf on August 3, 2025 at 4:24 pm

I just feel the PFHOF site is okay, but nothing great Andy P … sometimes they have a hard time updating their own information or scheduled activities. I think TOFTWO could actually enhance and add to the site while bringing historical focus and attention to inductees that the younger fans arent aware of, or never knew about. There is nothing wrong with voters using the site more for transparency or why they vote or dont vote a certain way.

Voting for players cant all be about journalistic homerism. These writers need to show they have at least some historical perspective and knowledge of past generations of play. We do it here, why cant they?

If TOFTWO could enhance and add more writers-historians-voters perspectives to the site, maybe the selections could be better with less controversey. Hard to say though, based on subjective voting.

I havent seen the introductions or speeches from this saturday. Did any stand out?

Andy p on August 3, 2025 at 4:39 pm

I’ll just say this running the Pro Football Hall of Fame isn’t easy and neither is the National Baseball Hall of Fame

Jim Porter and the board have the power to fix this and they most certainly should

Andy p on August 3, 2025 at 4:45 pm

Brian I guess I feel the same way I agree though they have a hard time updating their own information I had email them a couple times to add the Class of 2025 page update the yearly finalists page to indicate those elected in 2024 update the yearly finalists page to include class of 2025 modern era finalists I think there’s something fishy going on and with the Pro Football Hall of Fame

Marie R on August 4, 2025 at 7:45 am

Good Morning, if there is NO change to the selection process for 2026, and at best I am hoping that they join the Coach and Contributor groups together, with the new process here is my way to early Class of 2026:

Drew Brees
Larry FitzGerald
Torry Holt
Luke Kuckley
Bill Belichek
Ken Anderson
Roger Craig

Paul on August 4, 2025 at 9:20 am

there are no changes to rules for 2026 election, so we will not get class that large
its going to be 3-4 moderns and 5-6 total, no way we get 3 out of group of 5 seniors/contributors/coaches under how current election rules work the math. With five in that group and 150 total votes, three are not each getting 40+ votes as other two will also pull from those 150 total votes. Its terrible process and outcome but its one the Hall and others wanted, create uncertainty right up to announcement and result smaller classes-a result the Hall first stated to expect last year that they intended when they created the new rules

(and to me seems like with just 3-4 moderns its hard to think voters will include two WRs-Holt is very unlikely)

Just providing a dose of reality when it comes to these election rules and process

Paul on August 4, 2025 at 9:40 am

PR team at PFHOF is frankly terrible, sure anyone (including an intern) can push out social media posts and announcements but even many of those have frequent errors, and don’t even get me started on their webpage. I don’t really have issue with its design, layout and content but often months behind on updating pages. Recent example, class of 2025 election process rolled out last September but was not until January that many key pages including FAQ on selection process and members of selection committee were updated.

Just watch-as Board added a fourth member last week – to fill the 50th voters slot (now held by Rich Cimini), how long will it take that staff member/intern to update list on their own website LOL

And no way Hall would want other content on their site, especially those that often “second guessing” or critical of the elections. I think Judge will find another outlet, in meantime it could be that Cooney on Substack who is our best correct source of PFHOF news (its free service to join, and can access via web and not need to download app-but you could)

Set your calendars as next year enshrinement ceremony is week later on Saturday August 8th, as 2026 Labor Day is later (Sept 7) and league does not like to start until after that holiday, also reason why end of 2026 season 2027 SB is a week later Feb 14th (day before Presidents Day)..likely a precursor to 18 week game season in the eventual future

Marie R on August 4, 2025 at 11:23 am

Thanks, Paul for the clarification. Most appreciated, do you have a possible way to early for the Class of 2026. I do get what you are saying, if they do not put in HOLT in for 2026 and he might need to wait until Fitz is in, then I can see 4 moderns of Brees, Fitz, Luke K and Willie Anderson. Last three? Holt, Adam V and Yanda, no I do not think Eli gets in this year, Brees blocks him out. If Bill B. is up for the coaches, he gets it no problem and gets in, doubt Kraft does and so I think maybe 1 other Senior? Going to go with one of Ken Anderson or Roger Craig.

Paul on August 4, 2025 at 11:52 am

its impossible to predict entire class but if we think of voting history and how voters tend to few candidates including 1st ballot and queue of returning candidates, I think we can look for a class of 2026 like this:

Moderns-Brees/Fitz 100%, 1 or 2 others, and then would say returning final 7 from 2025 have best shots so lets go with AdamV 80% LukeK 80% WAnderson 60% Holt 40%

BillB (coach) 80%

Robert Kraft-if contributor finalist-seems best bet there 70%..he has been among top contributors considered last few years and after Hays was not elected in class of 2025 there were voters who publicly stated Kraft would have been better candidate-that would seem to be strong evidence that he has support to get elected via full 50 member selection committee, perhaps he again is not the contributor finalist but I would give him the best odds to be so

Senior finalists (3) -could include many options there but KAnderson, RCraig seem most likely, perhaps also Albert Lewis….but math is going to make it very hard for any to get in over BillB/RKraft

I think the greatest unknown here is how many moderns 3 or 4 and after Brees/Fitz who among the four contenders makes it-very hard to say

Marie R on August 4, 2025 at 1:51 pm

Thanks, Paul. IMO, and this is for me, I think the classes need to be no less then 6, but this only 4 size is way too small. I watched the show this weekend, and it was quick and while it thought all the inductees were worthy due to the small size, was a lot of filler. Also, I cannot imagine that the city of Canton likes these small sizes? Hugh loss of $! So, I think they give it one more year and I think we see changes if the Class of 2026. I am still hoping they join the two C/C together, the Seniors and then the Moderns. Classes should be 6 to 7 per year, but yeah a lot of people complained about the 8 and 9 size classes. I did not. Moderns should no less then 4, Seniors no less then 2 and 1 C/C.

So, I would do Brees, Fitz, Luke K, Willie Anderson (Going to leave Holt to 2027), Ken Anderson, Roger Craig and Bill Belicheck. That is what I would do, but I think changes are coming if this mess does not get fixed this year. I just don’t see it with the way it it is set up right now.

Andy p on August 4, 2025 at 11:30 pm

Paul do you agree with me there’s something fishy going on with and at the Pro Football Hall of Fame and your right about the website I had to email them a couple times to add the Class of 2025 page update the yearly finalists to indicate those elected in 2024 update the yearly finalists to include Class of 2025 modern era finalists what is going on at and with the Pro Football Hall of Fame

Brian wolf on August 5, 2025 at 1:23 am

Thanks for the information guys.

Paul on August 5, 2025 at 9:09 am

Andy p…..I don’t think its “fishy” as much as sloppy and unprofessional, lack of priority by the PR and marketing staff–and I understand Spring into August is very busy time for them but important (and I would think easy) updates in late summer and into the fall should be no brainer-which they can manage as we see with the many press releases now needed for every election step. The other evidence of this I would point to is how often their social media posts are wrong and need revisions-someone is not being careful and checking.
Not sure if email reminders help, or they are responsive to those, and of course we should not be the ones making sure content is put up in a timely manner and checked first for errors. Their website content and social posts are so frequently a mess I am not surprised not care to bother with the crap-just wait until one quiet day they decide to fix the stuff. I suspect the other reason is they realize very few people care enough to read the election detail materials on website that they just don’t spend time to update and correct. Sloppy

Paul on August 5, 2025 at 9:13 am

And I was able to confirm that getting selection committee back to full 50 members was only action PFHOF Board took at their annual meeting in Canton last week..so no changes for 2026 election process to rules made last year…unfortunately

Seems like Hall staff and board have heard from vocal voters about their frustration of involvement in process that created a small class of just four, but Hall is insistent to give new rules another year before considering another change (which in away would be acknowledgment of mess new rules they made created, likely another reason they will not change after just one year)-oh well, its likely again going to screw 1-2 very deserving finalists a slot for another year

Marie R on August 5, 2025 at 10:42 am

Thanks, Paul. And then come the Class of 2027, I expect there will be changes. One, join the Coach and Contributor groups together, one finalist per year. Two, leave Seniors at 3 finalists per year, minimum of 2 elected per year. Three, Moderns minimum of 4 per year, max of 5 per year. Minimum class of 6, NO more 4, and at much as 7. I think that is all they are going to do in terms of size.

So, will see what happens with the Class of 2026, I am hopeful for at least 6: Brees, Fitz, LukeK, Willie Anderson, Bill B, and maybe one Senior depending on who the Contributor is, if its Kraft I think he gets it. Then NO Seniors.

Andy p on August 5, 2025 at 11:52 pm

Paul actually they are responsive to emails and you’re right they to need fix the issues with their website once and for all you said it best sloppy did you see my post saying running the Pro Football Hall of Fame isn’t easy

Andy p on August 5, 2025 at 11:54 pm

Here’s my petition I just started to get Clint Murchison in the Pro Football Hall of Fame

https://www.change.org/p/clint-murchison-for-the-pro-football-hall-of-fame/

Paul on August 6, 2025 at 2:47 pm

what ever changes we see for 2027 and beyond will likely still cap total max at 6 as I just don’t see Hall interested in 7 or 8 member classes any time soon

I think 6 is still small but will take it over 4 any day..and given the ongoing Big Hall vs Small Hall debates 6 seems like fair middle ground (even though I hate it impacts seniors the most)

Paul on August 6, 2025 at 2:54 pm

and no offense intended but Doug Williams was a odd and weird inclusion on the class of 2025 contributors list…even some voters and BRP members commented on that publicly…..Clint Murchison would be far more appropriate and deserving (although I suspect since 2025 list of 9 contributor finalists already had 4 owners those nine members on BRP likely tried to avoid making it 5 of 9..just an observation..) but certainly should be nominated

Paul on August 6, 2025 at 2:58 pm

plus 2025 version of the PFHOF media guide (full of great info) is now available for free download at:

https://www.profootballhof.com/pfhof/media/pfhof/news/2025-pro-football-hall-of-fame-media-guide.pdf

(if link does not work, simply go to PFHOF website…in top banner select “About” link…move to bottom of that page and right center is list of live links-click Media Guide which opens PDF version

Robert on August 6, 2025 at 7:18 pm

Paul if i recall wasnt doug williams also on the senior nominees list

Andy p on August 6, 2025 at 11:41 pm

Paul your right about Doug Williams I have no idea why he made the contributor nominees and semi finalists same with Virginia Halas McCaskey Clint Murchison would have been a better choice than them

Andy p on August 6, 2025 at 11:47 pm

The last time four members elected were elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2005 it was the second to last time a pre 60s candidate was elected by the selection committee when they elected two Benny Friedman and Fritz Pollard the last time a pre 60s candidate was elected by the selection committtee was 2016 when they elected Dick Stanfel before that the only other time a pre 60s finalist was considered by the selection committee was when Marshall Goldberg was considered in 2008 and he wasn’t elected and the only other time we’ve seen a pre 60s finalist elected was by the Blue Ribbon Panel for the Centennial Class they elected four Bobby Dillon Duke Slater Mac Speedie and Ed Sprinkle while leaving out Lavvie Dilweg Verne Lewellen Ox Emerson Cecil Isbell and Al Wistert also Buddy Parker and Ralph Hay

This is why the Pro Football Hall of Fame should have been founded earlier

Paul on August 7, 2025 at 7:57 am

I attended that enshrinement ceremony

Andy p on August 7, 2025 at 11:32 pm

Paul as a Cowboys fan what do you think about my petition to get Clint Murchison in the Pro Football Hall of Fame

Andy p on August 7, 2025 at 11:32 pm

I have a question for everyone who posts here how did you get interested in the Pro Football Hall of Fame in the first place

Paul on August 8, 2025 at 10:01 am

good job Andy

and I was fan growing up, started watching in 1977 so guess I started getting interested in PFHOF when those players were being elected in 1990s (went to first enshrinement in 1993)..became aware of Peter King and Dr Z who were only ones writing about the Hall elections in the 1990s and interest in elections grew in early 2000s around the many deserving Cowboys who had not been put in and the controversies around those, starting with Bob Hayes and then Chuck Howley. Plus in early 2000s I moved to Ohio so would visit all once a summer, often for the ceremonies, was something my son and I did as a tradition for many years. So it all ties into my fandom and interest in all things history, including NFL. And over the years turned into more of an obsession or fixation including collecting memorabilia (have large collection of Cowboys items, and other Hall related items)

Jumped on social media several years ago (when there was very little chatter about PFHOF) to share my thoughts and insights, meet and learn from others informed and interested by Hall stuff and try to educate and teach others about the election process

Paul on August 8, 2025 at 11:36 am

I think voters (and the contributors BRP) in recent years have been sensitive to the criticism of recently electing too many owners, which is likely a factor harming Murchison. 2020 Centennial Class plus recent elections have seen Adams, Modell and Kraft as repeated “finalists” but not yet advanced for consideration by full committee to be presented and debated for election. Would seem current “order” would be 1 Kraft, 2 Adams and 3 Modell-but there is likely huge falloff in support and interest after Kraft, and likely some vocal opposition to Modell by many voters. (Hay was an owner but resume is also strongly based on pulling others together to form what would become NFL-so I am not including him here)

Now after Kraft, I think Murchison is next best deserving owner to be considered, suspect historians and voters on BRP might agree….but not so sure the full 50 member selection committee is as familiar with his case as they would be for Adams, and to some extent Modell. It would also seem clear to be that Jerry Jones as recent owner added to PFHOF really hurts chances for Murchison plus the fact that beyond his immediate family (children) and friends there is no one in media or in Dallas to advocate for him, I have seen very little from voters or others pushing his case hard.He was semifinalist in 2024 but not for 2025 so case and support could be fading…

Paul on August 8, 2025 at 12:40 pm

class of 2026-sequence of announcements by PFHOF (with Fall 2024 dates as reference)

prelim seniors (9/10), prelim moderns (9/18), 50 seniors (10/3), 25 contributors (10/16), 12 coaches (10/17), 25 seniors (10/22), 50 moderns (10/23), 9 contributors (10/30), 25 modern (11/20), group of 5 finalists (12/3), 15 moderns (I12/28)
…9 seniors were not separate announcement, but listed in the group of five press release on 12/3

note: dates may change as Hall has no set schedule for these press releases which reflect when various vote totals are determined at each stage

Brian wolf on August 8, 2025 at 2:34 pm

RIP

Billy Howton

One of the first Cowboy’s star players and deserving of the PFHOF.

Along with Frank Clarke, Don Perkins, Eddie LeBaron and Don Meredith, he helped keep the team exciting on offense, while they went through growing pains trying to build a winner for Landry, Schramm and Murchison.

Andy p on August 8, 2025 at 11:57 pm

Paul thanks I appreciate that do you mean good job about the petition

Rick Gosselin has always advocated for Clint Murchison check out this article he wrote about Clint Murchison

https://rickgosselin.com/state-your-case-clint-murchison/

I’ve emailed Rick Gosselin a lot about Clint Murchison

You say he was a semifinalist in 2024 he was actually a semifinalist in 2023 and hasn’t been a semifinalist since

I sent an email to Don Van Natta Jr asking him to write an article about Clint Murchison

You say beyond his family and friends there is no one in media to push Clint Murchison well that needs to change that’s why all members of the selection committee and the contributor committee need to read Hole in the Roof so they can learn about Clint Murchison and why he belongs in the Pro Football Hall of Fame you should read it too I have it and it’s great

I want to be clear on something I’m not doing this for the fame I’m not doing this for they money I’m doing this because I want to see Clint Murchison where he belongs in the Pro Football Hall of Fame

I would love to see Clint Murchison get elected in 2028 so he can go in with Tom Brady how fitting would it be for the founder and owner of America’s Team to go in with the greatest quarterback of all time

Andy p on August 8, 2025 at 11:58 pm

I don’t want to see Art Modell in the Pro Football Hall of Fame because Cleveland would riot if he got in

Paul on August 11, 2025 at 9:18 am

agree

Paul on August 11, 2025 at 9:23 am

I know Murchison has his supporters, was just pointing out when a player/coach/contributor is no longer living, especially if passing was many years ago, they really need a strong advocate on the BRP to get them considered, for example Clark Judge was for Ralph Hay…Gosselin is likely an advocate for him but he’s not on that BRP. And yes would be great for all members of the BRP to study all candidates (as should be same for all 50 voters-too many had no idea who Hays even was)..and I suspect many do, especially BRP members, but sadly I suspect many are unaware of NFL history and many of the candidates
All of which makes case for Murchison even harder to advance..its an unfortunate reality

Andy p on August 11, 2025 at 4:57 pm

Paul I guess your right but I won’t stop I’m willing to take on anything

Andy p on August 11, 2025 at 8:43 pm

Why did the Pro Football Hall of Fame wait until 2014 to start the contributor category

Paul on August 12, 2025 at 9:43 am

Because they had no interest or motivation to create one…its another example of positive improvements to the election process over last decade that was because voters pushed for it

And Andy yes you should keep pressing case for Murchison as he’s deserving

Andy p on August 12, 2025 at 4:36 pm

Paul thanks I will

Robert on August 13, 2025 at 6:58 pm

anybody havinng problems posting on here

Tony - Zoneblitz on August 13, 2025 at 8:33 pm

I’ll dig into the logs and see there’s anything wrong Robert…

Robert on August 13, 2025 at 9:39 pm

much appreciated Tony keep me posted

Andy p on August 14, 2025 at 4:44 pm

You know the old saying if ain’t broke don’t fix it Jim Porter and the board should have taken that to heart

Tony on August 14, 2025 at 5:10 pm

@Robert – Looks like we were pretty much maxed out on server space–should be ok now, at least for a bit.

Robert on August 14, 2025 at 9:24 pm

much appreciated on the update Tony

Paul on August 16, 2025 at 10:13 am

maxed out on server space—ha just wait until we start posting on the class of 2026 election…

Brian wolf on August 16, 2025 at 12:33 pm

A six member Class would make everyone happy but maybe not till the 2027 election.

I took a screenshot of last years 31 senior semifinalists because I dont think it will change much this year in Oct/Nov

Robert on August 16, 2025 at 5:02 pm

most likley brian we will see a majority of seniors who played between 1970-2000 just my opinion

Paul on August 17, 2025 at 1:17 pm

Unfortunately I tend to agree as its clear as the full selection committee gets younger (most having covered game since 1990s or recently and few study or write about history of the game) I think its most likely we are going to see senior candidates from 1980s and recently

just look at 9 senior finalists for class of 2025: Maxie Baughan, Sterling Sharpe, Jim Tyrer, Ken Anderson, Lester Hayes, Bob Kuechenberg, Albert Lewis, Stanley Morgan and Al Wistert – 5 played in 1980s or later..if we include 1970s and later the number jumps to 7 of 9. My guess vast majority of voters have no idea who Baughan,Tyrer,Wistert are

Andy p on August 17, 2025 at 4:53 pm

Rick Gosselin was right the selection committee has gotten younger not older I hope they haven’t gotten young enough that they reject Clint Murchison like they did with Art Powell Buddy Parker Maxie Baughan and Ralph Hay and you know how much I would hate for that to happen

Every year when I see the senior finalists and I see one of them isn’t a pre 60s finalist I say well this isn’t going to work

The real blame for the senior backlog lies with the founders of the Pro Football Hall of Fame for not founding the Pro Football Hall of Fame earlier

Andy p on August 17, 2025 at 4:55 pm

Lionel Taylor died

Paul on August 18, 2025 at 10:05 am

As to the late founding of the PFHOF (and yes that’s very unfortunate)..not really sure whom its to blame as it was not up to the league to create its HOF but would take others to do so..and in case of PFHOF there apparently was no widespread interest until late 1950s by a few local community leaders including in Canton to create one-PFHOF was not established by the NFL but dedicated group in Canton. But agree it would have huge impact on potential candidates (especially former players) from 1920s to 1950s who had less than a decade of eligibility before they were all tossed into a seniors category in 1972 (then called “old timers”) and only 1 could be elected each year, until increased to 2 per year in early 2000s

Andy p on August 18, 2025 at 11:39 pm

Paul I guess your right but still the Pro Football Hall of Fame should have been founded earlier then we wouldn’t be talking about Lavvie Dilweg Verne Lewellen Ox Emerson Cecil Isbell and Al Wistert not being in the Pro Football Hall of Fame Buddy Parker and Ralph Hay too also Ward Cuff George Christensen Joe Kopcha as well as Jack McBride Red Dunn Ed Danowski Charley Brock Glenn Presnell and Father Lumpkin

Also did you see Lionel Taylor died

Paul on August 19, 2025 at 3:12 pm

Yea and I think Lionel Taylor has a strong resume for PFHOF-unfortunately I don’t see any path for him to be elected

Andy p on August 19, 2025 at 11:32 pm

Paul your right but do you agree the Pro Football Hall of Fame should have been founded earlier

Paul on August 20, 2025 at 6:28 pm

Yea …but wasn’t … not much can be done about that

Andy p on August 20, 2025 at 11:33 pm

Paul I know but still you get the point

Andy p on August 25, 2025 at 4:44 pm

I hope Jared Allen being elected paves the way for Kevin Williams

Paul on August 26, 2025 at 9:17 am

he better start making progress up the process, starting with getting to semi-finalist list as he risks his case being completely dismissed or forgotten by voters-for reasons that bewilder me

Paul on August 26, 2025 at 12:26 pm

we could now have our first contender for PFHOF class of 2031…….hmmmmm

Tony on August 26, 2025 at 5:42 pm

Who are you referring to Paul?

I see Julio officially retired in the spring, but didn’t play in 2024.

Matthieu & Martin retired earlier, would think they may get a crack, although chances for a S and G are slim for first year.

Robert on August 26, 2025 at 7:06 pm

Perhaps Travis Kelce

Paul on August 26, 2025 at 7:38 pm

Bingo

Paul on August 26, 2025 at 7:39 pm

Zack Martin is eligible for class of 2030 and would put good money he will be first ballot

Tony on August 26, 2025 at 11:47 pm

I did the math wrong—was thinking of guys retiring this year, not after this year.

Martin is a great player—but if he makes it in the first year and Randall McDaniel didn’t until year…3 I think it was?

Although John Hannah did make it year 1…guess some depends on the backlog around them.

Andy p on August 27, 2025 at 1:58 am

How come Bud Adams gets more support than Clint Murchison

Paul on August 27, 2025 at 10:34 am

Listening to and reading posts and comments from the media (especially voters) regarding the PFHOF case for Zack Martin there are some that view him as top 4 or 5 all time at the Guard position plus (currently) there are no other serious 1st ballot contenders for class of 2030-of which suggests he is very likely to be the one.

Seems like the media and voters are more aware of (and placing higher value) on Bud Adams impact and roles with growth of NFL (as co-founder of the AFL, leadership role among NFL owners from 1970s until his death), whereas Murchison did not have that background

Paul on August 27, 2025 at 10:44 am

current first time eligible for class of 2030-OG Zack Martin (DAL), OT Tyron Smith (DAL), S Tyrann Mathieu (ARZ/KC)

(now there could still be others who end up not playing in 2025 but looks like Von Miller and Rodgers and several other potential future PFHOFers will be on 2025 rosters)

Brian wolf on August 27, 2025 at 3:19 pm

Yep, its Kelce who will be thinking of the wedding soon enough. Taylor surprised me … thought she was too into women to ever get married.
You hear a lot of rumors in Nashville.

If Rodgers can help win 9 games this year, I think he will be back next year in Pittsburgh. This year will probably be it for both Wagner and Miller. I actually hope Tyron Smith comes back and plays but doubtful.

Paul on August 27, 2025 at 3:42 pm

when it comes to senior veterans like QB Aaron Rodgers (GB), LB Von Miller (DEN) , TE Travis Kelce (KC), S Bobby Wagner (SEA), WR Deandre Hopkins (HOU), DE Calais Campbell (ARZ), DE Cameron Jordan (NO) – its impossible at this stage of their careers to know what how likely planning to play in 2026 really is…..

I suspect Tyron Smith is done playing… has not played full season since 2015, last five season best was 11 games and 13 games (only 10 in 2024)…his body is broken…what’s the point, for all the work and preparation, and what team looking for part time OT..plus he has made $120m+ career earnings..no long all pro player, so only SB would help his resume..and only 1 team of 32 would get him that…tough odds to try

Andy p on August 27, 2025 at 4:56 pm

I really don’t get why Doug Williams made the coach and contributor semifinalists what has he done that’s Hall of Fame worthy this is what the press release said about him

Career with Tampa Bay Buccaneers (1978-1982) and Washington Redskins (1986-89) included historic moment as first Black quarterback to start and win a Super Bowl (XXII) with an MVP performance; credited with creating opportunities for future Black athletes.

Is that even worthy Hall of Fame worthy I don’t think so

Clint Murchison did much more than him

Andy p on August 27, 2025 at 4:56 pm

Brian did you see my petition

Paul on August 28, 2025 at 9:20 am

to be be correct there are the coaches semifinalist (and finalist) list and a separate contributors semifinalist (and finalist) list – they are not combined.

Seems like some influential voter, members of media, and a PFHOFer are seeking recognition for Doug Williams and pressed contributor BRP to consider him-he never advanced and I suspect his case is now dead in the water

Andy p on August 28, 2025 at 4:28 pm

Paul sorry about that my bad

Brian wolf on August 28, 2025 at 5:03 pm

Wow … major deal in GB, who get Micah Parsons from Dallas for 2 1st round picks and DT/NT Kenny Clark. Clark is still a very good player but is getting older and with the Packers, the two first round picks will be closer to 2nd round picks. The Packers are giving a TON of money to Parsons, who will average 47 million a season!

Hopefully, on a grass field, Parsons can stay healthy and help this team win it all … Can the Packers do it?
Meanwhile, Dallas loses a major piece of their defense … similar to DeMarcus Ware, 12 yrs ago.

Andy p on August 31, 2025 at 1:36 am

Lee Roy Jordan died

Brian wolf on September 1, 2025 at 9:01 am

RIP

Lee Roy Jordan

Paul on September 1, 2025 at 11:44 am

GB won that deal but reality is that only payoff would be a DPOY season and SB trip..if DAL can take the cap/cash savings plus #1 drafts and pick a great team they could come out the winner.. otherwise was the deal really a difference maker for Packers-oh well only time will tell..alas it pride and ego that put Jerry and player/agent in bad place. Word around DAL las few years has been that Parsons is not all in, lacking leadership, plus podcast during season talking about team has not been well received, but has great sack and pressure stats..never seemed to step up in big games..GB will give him chance to set his PFHOF legacy in place

Always though LRJ had a strong PFHOF resume (Turney did a very detailed good look at his case a few months ago)…likely overshadowed by Lilly and Howley plus was era of great MLB with Butkus, Nitschke, Nobis…..good chance he never gets in now, unfortunate

Andy p on September 1, 2025 at 11:39 pm

Bill Belichick’s debut with UNC was a disaster TCU crushed them 48-14 does this affect his Hall of Fame case

Robert ewing on September 2, 2025 at 8:52 am

No it doesn’t Andy its based on his pro career not his college career

Paul on September 2, 2025 at 9:35 am

come on Andy—-really???

But what is interesting is this possible situation..Hall announces group of 5 finalists for class of 2026 including coach finalist BillB in early December…what if he resigns at end of UNC football season and a NFL team hires him as HC in early January-what does the Hall do? Leave him on ballot? Remove, and replace or not replace?? There is no precedent for a finalist to be removed from ballot just in advance of the election meeting (mid January)

Having said all that possibility, it seems unlikely that he resigns and even more so that at this point a bad NFL team looks to hire him back in league as HC at age 74 with no recent decent HC results in college or NFL…but never say never, right?……

Andy p on September 2, 2025 at 4:32 pm

Paul you’re right

Andy p on September 2, 2025 at 4:50 pm

I want to apologize for all the times I’ve upset you all I care about the Pro Football Hall of Fame we all care about the Pro Football Hall of Fame I love coming here everyday and sharing my opinions and thoughts about the Pro Football Hall of Fame I guess I have a love hate thing with Jim Porter and the Pro Football Hall of Fame I don’t think Jim Porter’s a bad guy he’s a great guy and a great president it’s just I don’t like some of the changes he made to the voting process which as a result means the senior backlog will only increase and deserving finalists will be left out you know the old saying if ain’t broke don’t fix it Jim Porter and the board should have taken that to heart let’s just get ready for another small Hall of Fame class and be prepared to be disappointed again

Brian wolf on September 2, 2025 at 9:28 pm

We all know your passion for the HOF, Andy P … there is no reason to apologize because we all have passion as well but can try to keep it in perspective. We all have busy lives and watching football and players is a form of competitive, bragging-rights entertainment or escapism. I cant enjoy the game like my younger self could because I try to navigate through aging and realize other things are more important in life. Still the best thing on television though, since I dont have time to watch extended shows.

I still hope its a good year for veterans who are bringing their great careers to the end of the line. Great young players propel the sport but lots of interesting story lines. Injuries seem to keep alot of players from taking off. Lets just hope other teams can keep the narrative of a SB wedding celebration from happening. Could the Chiefs be the first SB loser to win the next year since the 2018 Patriots?

Brian wolf on September 2, 2025 at 9:37 pm

Youre right about Parsons, Paul, but its still hard to believe they would not extend that good of a player. I feel Parsons has been frustrated because other players on the defense cant step up. Yes, Bland got extended but he has been bitten by injury as well and the team still has to stop the run. Kenny Clark can help if healthy but a ten year veteran at nose tackle isnt going to play forever. We will see if Parsons can stay healthy and motivated in GB …

Andy p on September 2, 2025 at 11:31 pm

Brian thanks I appreciate that did you see my petition

Andy p on September 2, 2025 at 11:36 pm

I’m surprised no one has written a book about the voting process for the Pro Football Hall of Fame it would make a great book

Paul on September 3, 2025 at 10:35 am

my retirement plan….

but seriously, I agree it would make for a great book, I suspect it has not yet been done as the “insiders” aka PFHOF staff and voters – current and past – are likely unwilling to “spill any secrets” of what is said during the election meetings and the voting results.

PAUL on September 3, 2025 at 10:41 am

As much as I would like to direct my anger and frustration at Porter, for essentially flipping his view/support for larger hall classes to smaller ones in just a matter of one year, I can understand he reports to a Board and seems clear to me that some voters,members of the media and PFHOFers pressured him and got to the Board insisting classes needed to be smaller, and it was less the decision and push by Porter but the Board siding with the large hall detractors-right or wrong (and we all can agree decision was wrong)

So for now I think we just sit and wait as Hall elects another small class and again gets complaints from the public, media, other voters and local Canton community (as smaller classes clearly result in fewer paid attendees at ceremony and other events that week in early August-as seen by 2025 events) with hope rules are again changed for 2027 to at least get back to perhaps 6 member classes possible.

Andy p on September 3, 2025 at 4:50 pm

Paul I’ll be the first in line when you come out with it

Andy p on September 3, 2025 at 4:56 pm

I think they made the changes because they want to get Robert Kraft and Bill Belichick in before Rob Gronkowski and Tom Brady

Brian wolf on September 4, 2025 at 12:29 am

Hearing rumors that Taylor Swift might do the SB half-time show this year. If she is announced, Vegas will get an even bigger onslaught of bets towards the Chiefs getting to or winning the SB … Say It Aint So Joe!

Haha …

I feel the Eagles will beat the Cowboys but Dallas should cover an +8 point spread. Prescott needs to have a breakout season. If they under-perform or he gets hurt again, this team needs to move on as soon as his salary/cap charge allows. Maybe that could be one reason why the Cowboys unloaded Parsons … to try to get a high draft choice QB? Imagine if Arch Manning joined the team by 2027? Though very doubtful.

Paul on September 4, 2025 at 9:42 am

Swift performing at SB would be lit (as the kids say LOL)…..and I agree as to Dak, and as his contract is currently structured it would appear earliest Dallas could get rid of him (without crazy cap hit) would be Spring 2027..no idea if Arch would even be option at that point, if in that draft and how he would be viewed as pro prospect (where he would be ranked in draft).

Andy p on September 4, 2025 at 4:45 pm

Paul totally I agree with you the decision was wrong

Andy p on September 4, 2025 at 4:53 pm

In addition to Doug Williams I really don’t get Virginia Halas McCaskey has made the contributors nominees over Clint Murchison I mean what has she done that’s Hall other than two NFC championships and a Super Bowl championship with one of the greatest teams with one of the greatest defenses ever I think it’s a longevity thing she turned 100 in January 2023 and died this February at 102

This is what the press release said about her when she was first named a nominee in 2023

Became principal owner of the Bears in 1983 upon the death of her father, Hall of Famer George Halas. Celebrated her 100th birthday this past Jan. 5.

Is that even Hall of Fame worthy I don’t think so

Clint Murchison did much more then her and Doug Williams

Andy p on September 4, 2025 at 4:54 pm

I’m going to write a letter to Jerry Jones asking him to put Clint Murchison in the Cowboys Ring of Honor it’s a long shot but I hope it works

Robert ewing on September 4, 2025 at 7:10 pm

Andy if your petition was for a deserving senior player I’d have more interest

Andy p on September 4, 2025 at 11:55 pm

Robert why did you sign it then and why would you have more interest if it was for a deserving senior player I’m just asking

Paul on September 7, 2025 at 1:22 pm

just a reminder and heads up – we could get our first official press release from the PFHOF for the class of 2026 election cycle this coming week: preliminary list of senior candidates

Andy p on September 7, 2025 at 11:46 pm

Paul I hope so I’ll be waiting

Paul on September 8, 2025 at 10:24 am

yea but really does not inform us much about candidates (since list is so long) but does represent the “official” start of the class of 2026 election cycle

Paul on September 8, 2025 at 10:46 am

meaning no insight as to potential senior nominees can be gleaned from list almost 200 names long, except to note any recent additions (no longer modern candidates)…as we already know who the likely 25 semi-finalists are and can guess likely final 9 given results of those steps in recent years

Brian wolf on September 8, 2025 at 3:52 pm

Yep, time for a new post once the preliminary list is announced. Hopefully there wont be as many head-scratchers as last year and better new additions.

Great game in Buffalo last night to cap the sunday. Both defenses need work but at least the Bills fought to the very end getting a win that should have been a loss. Some good close games this weekend.

Paul on September 8, 2025 at 4:45 pm

A list of 180+ where anyone can nominate any player (min requirement is at least one NFL honor) means long list and 160+ never getting in Hall – in terms of class of 2026 it’s meaningless, but does signal start of annual election process

Robert ewing on September 8, 2025 at 6:40 pm

Names I’d like to see on that senior prelim list

Cornelius Bennett

Deron Cherry

Roger Craig

Chuck Foreman

Jay Hilgenberg

Mike Kenn

Albert Lewis

Stanley Morgan

Lemar Parrish

Fred Smerlas

Andy p on September 8, 2025 at 11:41 pm

Robert did you see my comment

Paul on September 9, 2025 at 9:29 am

at 180+ names they all will be there along with 170+ others….as just look at 2025 list

Senior player nominees for Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2025
Note: Players must have last played at least 25 full seasons ago to be eligible for nomination in this category. Qualifications include five years of service and at least one recognized postseason honor.

QUARTERBACKS (16): Ken Anderson, Charlie Conerly, Boomer Esiason, Roman Gabriel, James “Shack” Harris, Bobby Hebert, Jeff Hostetler, Ron Jaworski, Jack Kemp, Dave Krieg, Daryle Lamonica, Don Meredith, Jim Plunkett, Phil Simms, Joe Theismann, Doug Williams.

RUNNING BACKS (25): Alan Ameche, Ottis Anderson, Jon Arnett, Larry Brown, Timmy Brown, Earnest Byner, Roger Craig, John David Crow, Clem Daniels, Hewritt Dixon, Chuck Foreman, Willie Galimore, Pat Harder, Marv Hubbard, Cecil Isbell, Daryl Johnston, Verne Lewellen, Christian Okoye, Bill Osmanski, Glenn Presnell, Mark van Eeghen, Herschel Walker, Byron “Whizzer” White, Sammy Winder, Paul “Tank” Younger.

WIDE RECEIVERS/TIGHT ENDS (31): Mark Bavaro, Gino Cappelletti, Raymond Chester, Todd Christensen, Mark Clayton, Gary Collins, Isaac Curtis, Carroll Dale, Lavvie Dilweg, Boyd Dowler, Henry Ellard, Jimmie Giles, Billie Howton, Harold Jackson, Billy “White Shoes” Johnson, Brent Jones, Homer Jones, Ken Kavanaugh, Stanley Morgan, Art Powell, Mike Quick, Bob Scarpitto, Sterling Sharpe, Del Shofner, Pat Studstill, John Taylor, Lionel Taylor, Otis Taylor, Rick Upchurch, Bobby Walston, Billy Wilson.

OFFENSIVE LINEMEN (28): Harris Barton, Dick Barwegan, Ed Budde, Randy Cross, Ray Donaldson, Ox Emerson, Bill Fralic, Gale Gillingham, Kevin Glover, Charles “Buckets” Goldenberg, Wayne Hawkins, Jay Hilgenberg, Chris Hinton, Joe Jacoby, Mike Kenn, Bob Kuechenberg, George Kunz, Don Mosebar, Ralph Neely, Nate Newton, John Niland, Dick Schafrath, Luis Sharpe, Walt Sweeney, Fuzzy Thurston, Jim Tyrer, Ed White, Al Wistert.

DEFENSIVE LINEMEN (27): Lyle Alzado, George Andrie, Al “Bubba” Baker, Roger Brown, Ray Childress, Ben Davidson, Mark Gastineau, Bill Glass, L.C. Greenwood, Rosey Grier, Rich Jackson, Ed “Too Tall” Jones, Sean Jones, Tom Keating, Eugene “Big Daddy” Lipscomb, Jim Marshall, Leonard Marshall, Harvey Martin, Leslie O’Neal, Michael Dean Perry, Lou Rymkus, Tom Sestak, Otis Sistrunk, Fred Smerlas, Bubba Smith, Bill Stanfill, Greg Townsend.

LINEBACKERS (22): Carl Banks, Maxie Baughan, Bill Bergey, Dan Conners, Mike Curtis, Joe Fortunato, Larry Grantham, Tom Jackson, Vaughn Johnson, Lee Roy Jordan, Seth Joyner, Wilber Marshall, Rod Martin, Clay Matthews Jr., Karl Mecklenberg, Matt Millen, Tommy Nobis, Jack “Hacksaw” Reynolds, Andy Russell, Pat Swilling, Darryl Talley, Phil Villapiano.

DEFENSIVE BACKS (28): Dick Anderson, Bobby Boyd, Joey Browner, Deron Cherry, Nolan Cromwell, Thom Darden, Don Doll, Pat Fischer, Dave Grayson, Cornell Green, Merton Hanks, Lester Hayes, Albert Lewis, Terry McDaniel, Tim McDonald, Eddie Meador, Jim Norton, Lemar Parrish, Jimmy Patton, Jake Scott, Dennis Smith, Jack Tatum, Roosevelt Taylor, Mike Wagner, Everson Walls, Dave Whitsell, Fred Williamson, Louis Wright.

PUNTERS/KICKERS (3): Jim Bakken, Norm Johnson, Nick Lowery.

SPECIAL TEAMS (2): Mel Gray, Steve Tasker.

Robert ewing on September 10, 2025 at 3:03 pm

Anyone notice the site looks funny

Tony on September 10, 2025 at 3:19 pm

Thanks Robert, checking on it right now…

Tony on September 10, 2025 at 3:24 pm

Looks like it’s back…

Robert E. on September 11, 2025 at 1:31 pm

162 Seniors

https://www.profootballhof.com/news/2025/09/162-senior-player-nominees-announced-for-pro-football-hall-of-fame-class-of-2026/

Paul on September 11, 2025 at 2:28 pm

Senior player nominees for Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2026
Note: Players must have last played at least 25 full seasons ago — no more recently than the 2000 season — to be eligible for nomination in this category. Qualifications for candidacy include five years of service and at least one recognized postseason honor.

QUARTERBACKS (9): Ken Anderson, Charlie Conerly, Roman Gabriel, John Hadl, Jack Kemp, Don Meredith, Earl Morrall, Jim Plunkett, Doug Williams.

BACKS/RUNNING BACKS (16): Alan Ameche, Ottis Anderson, Larry Brown, Earnest Byner, Roger Craig, John David Crow, Chuck Foreman, Cecil Isbell, Verne Lewellen, Jack Manders, Mercury Morris, Don Perkins, Billy Sims, Herschel Walker, Byron “Whizzer” White, Paul “Tank” Younger.

ENDS/WIDE RECEIVERS/TIGHT ENDS (30): Fred Arbanas, Todd Christensen, Mark Clayton, Ben Coates, Gary Collins, Isaac Curtis, Carroll Dale, Lavvie Dilweg, Boyd Dowler, Mark Duper, Henry Ellard, Jimmie Giles, Charley Hennigan, Billy Howton, Harold Jackson, Keith Jackson, Billy “White Shoes” Johnson, Brent Jones, Homer Jones, Steve Jordan, Eric Martin, Stanley Morgan, Jay Novacek, Art Powell, Del Shofner, Lionel Taylor, Otis Taylor, Rick Upchurch, Bobby Walston, Billy Wilson.

OFFENSIVE LINEMEN (35): Heartley “Hunk” Anderson, Bruce Armstrong, Stew Barber, Dick Barwegen, Ed Budde, Ox Emerson, Gale Gillingham, Charles “Buckets” Goldenberg, Ken Gray, Dennis Harrah, Jay Hilgenberg, Chris Hinton, Joe Jacoby, Mike Kenn, Bob Kuechenberg, George Kunz, Riley Matheson, Max Montoya, Jon Morris, Ralph Neely, John Niland, Bart Oates, Marvin Powell, Duane Putnam, Dick Schafrath, Jerry Sisemore, Doug Smith, Walt Sweeney, Bob Talamini, Fuzzy Thurston, Jim Tyrer, Bob Vogel, Ed White, Ray Wietecha, Al Wistert.

DEFENSIVE LINEMEN (15): Houston Antwine, Gene Brito, Roger Brown, Earl Faison, Mark Gastineau, L.C. Greenwood, Ed “Too Tall” Jones, Jim Marshall, Leonard Marshall, Harvey Martin, Jerry Mays, Tom Sestak, Fred Smerlas, Neil Smith, Bill Stanfill.

LINEBACKERS (25): Carl Banks, Maxie Baughan, Cornelius Bennett, Bill Bergey, Matt Blair, Mike Curtis, Joe Fortunato, Larry Grantham, Tim Harris, E.J. Holub (also OL), Vaughan Johnson, Lee Roy Jordan, Seth Joyner, Greg Lloyd, Wilber Marshall, Rod Martin, Clay Matthews Jr., Bud McFadin, Karl Mecklenburg, Matt Millen, Tommy Nobis, Isiah Robertson, Pat Swilling, Darryl Talley, Keena Turner.

DEFENSIVE BACKS (27): Dick Anderson, Bobby Boyd, Dave Brown, Joey Browner, Butch Byrd, Don Doll, Pat Fischer, Goose Gonsoulin, Dave Grayson, Cornell Green, Merton Hanks, Lester Hayes, Warren Lahr, Albert Lewis, Tim McDonald, Eddie Meador, Lemar Parrish, Jimmy Patton, Eugene Robinson, George Saimes, Jake Scott, Dennis Smith, Jack Tatum, Everson Walls, Charlie Waters, Abe Woodson, Louis Wright.

KICKERS/PUNTERS (3): Jim Bakken, Jim Breech, Nick Lowery.

SPECIAL TEAMS (2): Mel Gray, Steve Tasker.

This year’s reduction voting will be completed with oversight from the firm Ernst & Young LLP, a Hall partner since 2019. EY’s Agreed-Upon Procedures included validating the completeness of the ballots and tabulating the ballots in accordance with the bylaws established by the Hall of Fame’s Board of Directors.

The Pro Football Hall of Fame’s Class of 2026 will be enshrined next August.

Paul on September 11, 2025 at 2:36 pm

drop from 183 last year to 162…hmmmmm
and I am guy who wrote nomination letter in support of Earl Morrall

Paul on September 11, 2025 at 2:55 pm

and no Esiason MVP,Simms SB MVP,Theismann MVP,Lamonica MVP(not saying they all are PFHOFers but on a list this long they deserve to be there and considered by voters)….those are ones I noticed with quick compare to 2025, and drops in terms of total from positions QB 16 to 9, RB 25 to 16, OL 35 to 28, DL 27 to 15

Robert on September 11, 2025 at 5:54 pm

Might take me a bit to narrow my list down to 50 but when it gets done ill post it paul

Andy p on September 12, 2025 at 1:47 am

How come the Pro Football Hall of Fame releases the senior nominees but not the coach nominees and the contributor nominees

Brian wolf on September 12, 2025 at 11:34 am

Those may come by next week Andy P …

Gene Brito Finally!

Players That Got In This Year But Not Last Year

Matheson
Putnam
Powell
Neely
Niland
Lloyd
BRITO
C Green
Robertson
A Woodson
Hadl
Blair
Perkins … Yes!

Let me know Paul if I missed anyone? Still, alot of deserving names left off … to numerous to mention now.

Brian wolf on September 12, 2025 at 11:47 am

Still disappointed that one of the pioneers at the flanker/split end/wide receiver position, Jim Benton, still cant make a preliminary list.

Still glad though that a number of super-seniors made the list.

John Vairin on September 12, 2025 at 11:53 am

I also sent a nomination for Morrall,.and about 15 others (I can’t find the list).

While it seems most I nominated got on there, I can tell you one guy I nominated who didn’t get on there, for whatever reason…Kent Hull…

John Vairin on September 12, 2025 at 11:55 am

Brian, I nominated Jim Benton too… Looks like that was another name that the Hall refused to add for whatever reason

Paul on September 12, 2025 at 8:33 pm

For some reason the hall won’t release preliminary lists of coaches and contributors (didn’t last year) next list will be moderns preliminary

Robert ewing on September 12, 2025 at 10:02 pm

Probably next week paul I should have my final 50

Andy p on September 12, 2025 at 11:26 pm

Brian I emailed the Pro Football Hall of Fame telling them to release the coach nominees and contributor nominees like they do with the senior nominees and they told me the coach candidates and contributor candidates will be released following the first reduction vote in mid October

Andy p on September 12, 2025 at 11:28 pm

Paul they need to change that

John P Vairin on September 13, 2025 at 9:57 am

Here is the list of players I nominated a little after the prelim list last year:

Gene Brito
Jim Benton
Pete Retzlaff
Jerry Smith
Riley Matheson
Jim Ray Smith
John Hadl
John Brodie
Gary Clark
Matt Blair
Bruno Banducci
Leon Gray
Cookie Gilchrist
Abner Haynes (Shocked nobody nominated him in the wake of his passing a few weeks ago)
Jim Katcavage
Coy Bacon
Cedric Hardman
Bill Forester
Ralph Neely
John Niland
Les Bingaman
Harlon Hill
Cornell Green
Isiah Robertson
Keith Millard

I thought I added Kent Hull, but I guess I forgot him…

Robert on September 13, 2025 at 9:08 pm

Excellent names you nominated John

John P Vairin on September 14, 2025 at 9:06 am

Thanks Robert…it is my understanding the Hall can rule out any player who it feels has no chance at election…I can’t understand how most of these players have “no chance at election..I am pretty sure all these players meet the minimum requirements…

Paul on September 14, 2025 at 10:28 am

from the 2024 PFHOF revised election bylaws:

A. INFORMATION TO BE RELEASED The following information will be released by the President or his/her designee for public consumption at times determined by the President:
1. The identity of the nine (9) Seniors Semifinalists.
2. The identity of the final three (3) Seniors Finalists at the earliest appropriate time after selection by the Seniors Blue-Ribbon Committee.
3. The identity of the nine (9) Coach Semifinalists.
4. The identity of the nine (9) Contributor Semifinalists.
5. The identity of the Coach and Contributor Finalists at the earliest appropriate time after selection by the Coach Blue-Ribbon Committee and the Contributor Blue-Ribbon Committee.
6. The identities of the Modern-Era Player Nominees and the Seniors Nominees sent on the Final Preliminary Nominees Lists sent to the respective Screening Committees.
7. The identity of the twenty-five (25) Modern-Era Player Semifinalists and 25 Senior Semifinalists.
8. The identity of the fifteen (15) Modern-Era Player Finalists who, along with the Seniors Finalists, Coach Finalist and Contributor Finalist, make up the final twenty (20) Finalists for the next election.
9. The identity of the Finalists who survived the first cut in the voting process that reduced the list of fifteen (15) Modern-Era Player Finalists to ten (10) under the provisions of Section VI. (B)(4).
10. The identity of the Finalists who survived the cut in the voting process that reduced the list of ten (10) Modern-Era Player Finalists to seven (7) under the provisions of Section VI. (B)(4)
11. The identity of those elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame.”B. INFORMATION NOT TO BE RELEASED:
1. Any vote totals on any part of the process.
2. The names of the Coach and Contributor Nominees.
3. Any information concerning the use of a tie-breaker.”

( Hall does not release the preliminary list of coaches and contributors, only lists we will see are the 9 coach and 9 contributor semi-finalists – late October last year – and the final coach and contributor-early December last year)

Brian wolf on September 14, 2025 at 10:35 am

Yeah John V … at least 10 of the players you named werent listed this year or last. People can do the mail-in vote but like Paul said unless I am wrong, the HOF can omit from the preliminary list. That needs definite clarification.

Paul on September 14, 2025 at 10:38 am

and also FYI from the 2024 revised PFHOF election bylaws:

“Those eligible candidates nominated by any Selector and other eligible candidates nominated by any person who, in the opinion of the Selection Process Committee of the Hall’s Board of Directors, have a reasonable chance of eventual Hall of Fame election.”

could explain why we are not seeing candidates for whom we know folks submitted nominations but did not appear on the preliminary list…only recourse is to nominate them again each year…also note any senior candidate who receives at least 2 votes in the stage from 50 to 25 semifinalists (its at least 4 voters for modern candidates) is automatically added to the preliminary list for the next years election…every other candidate would need to be renominated again

Paul on September 14, 2025 at 10:44 am

opps correction Hall does release the 25(+ties) contributors semifinalists and 12(+ties) coach semifinalists-last year was mid Oct…. the respective BRPs prepare their own list of candidates (not made public) and vote from 25/12 semifinalists to 9/9 semifinalists-and meet in late November to select finalists 1/1

Andy when you contacted the hall regarding the coach/contributor nominees they were likely referring to mid Oct announcement of the 25 and 12 semifinalists NOT entire list of nominees

Andy p on September 14, 2025 at 11:44 pm

Paul that’s what I said and where did you find this

Andy p on September 14, 2025 at 11:51 pm

I wonder why they don’t want to release vote totals or the names of the coach and contributor nominees I mean they release the names of the senior nominees I mean what’s the harm in doing so

Paul on September 15, 2025 at 8:25 am

AndyP not sure where the confusion is, you apparently emailed the Hall asking for all coach and contributor nominees to made public, they responded that after next round of voting those semi-finalists will be released (next month) which is what is stated in the PFHOF election bylaws..we are not going to see full list of all coach and contributors nominees that those respective BRPs have considered. No idea why that Hall decide not to release those lists-but that’s what they have decided (as per their election bylaws)

Robert ewing on September 15, 2025 at 3:34 pm

List is done my 50 seniors plus 10 just in case of ties ill post it shortly

Paul on September 15, 2025 at 3:41 pm

here is my updated top 24 seniors (years ago I stopped at 24 and not more as with the prospects of only 1 to 2 seniors a year the thought of having a list as long as 50 seemed useless plus very little separates that many candidates-most of whom will never be elected) and to also be very honest in my view my top 15 likely is where I would draw line at candidates most deserving, to the extent that I would be inclined to actively advocate for them..(***pre 1950 super seniors).

1. QB Ken Anderson (F2023-6, SF2024-6, SF2025-6)
2. F Lavvie Dilweg ***
3. G Ox Emerson ***
4. OT Al Wistert (SF2024, SF2025)***
5. LB Maxie Baughan(SF2023, SF2024-6, F2025)
6. CB/S Eddie Meador (SF2023-6, SF2024)
7. RB Roger Craig (SF2024-6)
8. G Bob Kuechenberg (SF2023-6, SF2025)
9. CB Albert Lewis (F2024, SF2025-6)
10. LB Tommy Nobis (F2023)
11. OT Joe Jacoby (F2024)
12. F Otis Taylor (F2024)
13. LT Jim Tyrer (F2025)
14. CB Lester Hayes (SF2025)
15. WR Stanley Morgan (SF2025-6)
16. CB Everson Walls (F2023)
17. QB Verne Lewellen ***
18. DB Jimmy Patton
19. WR Del Shofner
20. OL Dick Schafrath
21. DE L.C.Greenwood
22. LB Larry Grantham
23. LB Karl Meckenburg
24. OG Ed Budde

Robert on September 15, 2025 at 4:29 pm

23/24 of your seniors are on my list paul the only one who isnt is tyrer for obvious reasons

Andy p on September 15, 2025 at 11:40 pm

Paul sorry my bad where did you find the bylaws

Paul on September 16, 2025 at 12:00 pm

got copy from a voter last summer

Paul on September 16, 2025 at 12:04 pm

Robert following PFHOF election rules and eligibility plus looking at his career resume, there is very reason to include Tyrer as a senior candidate-and a top 10 one at that. I have always supported his case, as do many historians and members of the seniors BRP-and see no reason to “blacklist” his case as rules clearly allow him to be considered.

His case was treated horribly by the voters last year, with at least one voter breaking rules by publicly advocating against him to other voters in advance of the election meeting, telling them not to vote for him-that voter should have then been removed from that role by the Board

Brian wolf on September 16, 2025 at 12:46 pm

Andy, Tony or Paul … a new thread once the Modern preliminary is out?

Brian wolf on September 16, 2025 at 12:57 pm

I know its wishful thinking, but I believe Brito can gain momentum among the considerations at DE.

–Harvey Martin advanced well last year but their could be Cowboys voting fatigue?

–LC Greenwood is popular but alot of Steelers from that era already in the HOF … Steelers fatigue?

–Jim Marshall, like Brito, played before the 70s … will they get a fair argument?

–With Klecko voted in, its doubtful Gastineau gets elected … considered one dimensional but so was Freeney as a modern?

–Neil Smith … could he advance? Derrick Thomas election seems to hurt his candidacy. Could Smith cancel out Lewis or Deron Cherry for election amongst KC defenders?

Dont see a DT/NT like Smerlas breaking through …

Brian wolf on September 16, 2025 at 1:00 pm

Wow! No Deron Cherry on preliminary?

Robert E. on September 16, 2025 at 1:36 pm

Yeah Cherry not making it shocked me

Tony on September 16, 2025 at 3:10 pm

@Brian – For sure–was actually meaning to do one for Seniors, just haven’t gotten there yet–do we want a new thread for that?

Andy p on September 16, 2025 at 4:35 pm

Paul there’s some things I want to share with you

Jim Tyrer’s children have said this the man who shot our mom was not our dad

Ron Borges wrote this letter to the selection committee

https://halloffootball.substack.com/p/jim-tyrer-hof-sr-selectors-insight

As much as I love football I’m glad I don’t play it this sport takes a toll on your body and your brain

Paul on September 16, 2025 at 4:56 pm

No need to share with me as well aware of his case and family support (including these recent efforts) I am not one one you need to convince he’s deserving…

Andy p on September 16, 2025 at 8:54 pm

Paul which voter gave you a copy of the bylaws

Paul on September 17, 2025 at 12:50 pm

would you like link to download copy?

Brian wolf on September 17, 2025 at 3:33 pm

Thanks Tony … either way, though both should cut down pretty quickly?

I need to look at who missed this years preliminary seniors list from making it last year.

Andy p on September 17, 2025 at 4:37 pm

Paul yes please

Paul on September 18, 2025 at 9:02 am

preliminary lists of both the modern and seniors candidates are now in the hands of their respective screening committees who will reduce each to 50+ties…those lists were released by the Hall in late October last year

Paul on September 18, 2025 at 9:04 am

link to 2024 revised PFHOF election bylaws…. (note there were no changes for 2026 election process)

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ckadpoaw4qyvc01oxn2br/Bylaws_August_2024.pdf?rlkey=eefq7py3ie5vv0l4o5cv8nfo5&st=og0hq7va&dl=0

Paul on September 18, 2025 at 9:06 am

I think we can start fresh with new topic for class of 2026 once Hall releases modern preliminary list (should be any day now)

Robert ewing on September 18, 2025 at 1:11 pm

Most of you know why im opposed to Jim Tyrer I don’t need to go into them

Paul on September 18, 2025 at 2:20 pm

and a view not shared by historians and members of the Hall BRP-and took an effort by a voter in violation of PFHOF election bylaws to help keep him out..shameful look by Hall…as voters are not to serve as judge and jury in regard to any off the field issues, which in violation of election rules they did-and at least one voter went even further to conspire with other voters in advance of the election meeting by telling them not to support his case

Andy p on September 18, 2025 at 4:29 pm

Paul thanks for the bylaws

Andy p on September 18, 2025 at 4:37 pm

Here’s an ESPN article about Jim Tyrer that came out before the vote it looks like that voter was Bill Polian

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/43359812/a-worms-hof-voters-candidacy-chiefs-great

Robert on September 19, 2025 at 8:42 pm

I might nominate leon gray for the hall of fame next year and maybe deron Cherry

Paul on September 22, 2025 at 12:54 pm

Yea all one can do is make sure to nominate those who meet the minimum criteria-and hope Hall does not decide to randomly pull them from the preliminary lists for no apparent reason

Brian wolf on September 24, 2025 at 11:31 am

Only 128 nominees for Moderns … lets hope they didnt omit too many that have a case or should be remembered …

Tony on September 24, 2025 at 12:16 pm

New post added with 2026 nominees list: https://www.zoneblitz.com/pro-football-hall-of-fame-class-of-2026-128-total-nominees-13-first-year-candidates/

Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2025 Announced

Eric Allen, Defensive Back

Jared Allen, Defensive End

Antonio Gates, Tight End

Sterling Sharpe, Wide Receiver

The Non-Elected

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