Alright, to take a cue from Tony P. on the 2009 Hall of Fame thread, we’re posting a potential list of senior candidates for the Class of 2010 Hall of Fame induction. Feel free to leave your comments below.
Also, we’ll likely be posting our thoughts on the Class of 2009 on Saturday after the announcement, and we’ll probably have a 2010 prediction thread going shortly after the annoucement as well.
Tony P.’s full 2010 Senior Candidate list is after the jump–thanks for taking the time to pull that together…
OFFENSE
RT – Al Wistert 4/1/40’s
RG – Walt Sweeney 2/9/60’s-70’s
RG – Jerry Kramer 5/3/60’s
RG – Dick Stanfel 5/5/50’s
C – Mick Tingelhoff 5/6/60’s-70’s
LT – Jim Tyrer 6/9/60-70’s
LT – Winston Hill 0/8/60/70’s
QB – John Brodie 1/2/60-70’s
QB – Darle Lamonica 2/4/60’s
RB – Floyd Little 1/5/60’s-70’s
RE – Billy Wilson 1/6/50’s
E – Billy Howton 2/4/50’s-60’s
SE – Pete Retzlaff 1/5/60’s
WR – Otis Taylor 2/3/60’s-70’s
WR – Harold Carmichael 0/4/70’s
WR – Drew Pearson 3/3/70’s
WR – Harold Jackson 1/5/70’s-80’s
LE – Mac Speedie 3/2/40’s-50’s
LE – Lavvie Dilweg 5/0/20’s-30’s
DEFENSE
RDE – Harvey Martin 1/4/70’s-80’s
RDE – Jim Marshall 0/2/60’s-70’s
RDT – Roger Brown 2/6/60’s
NT – Curly Culp 1/6/70’s
LDE – L.C.Greenwood 2/6/70’s
LDE – Gene Brito 3/5/50’s
ROLB – Robert Brazile 2/7/70’s-80’s
RLB – Chris Hanburger 4/9/60’s-70’s
RLB – Maxie Baughan 2/9/60’s
RILB – Randy Gradishar 2/7/70’s-80’s *
MLB – Tommy Nobis 1/5/60’s-70’s
LLB – Joe Fortunato 3/5/50’s-60’s
LLB – Chuck Howley 5/6/60’s-70’s
DB – Jack Butler 3/4/50’s
CB/R – Abe Woodson 2/5/60’s
CB – Dick Lebeau 0/3/60’s
LCB – Lemar Parrish 1/8/70’s
LCB – Erich Barnes 1/6/60’s
CB/S – Eddie Meador 2/6/60’s
S – Johnny Robinson 6/7/60’s
SS/FS – Dick Anderson 2/3/70’s
SS/FS – Jake Scott 2/5/70’s
FS – Cliff Harris 3/6/70’s
Comments? Players you can’t stand? Players you want to emphasize?
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I believe it is a well thought out list, representing a variety of era’s, positions and teams. Hanburger, Tyrer, Robinson, Sweeney, and Lebeau are names that jump out to me. The best part is doing the research on the guys you have not seen with your own two eyes. Their are all kind of names that you have seen play and wonder how they are not in the hall (Howley, Jackson, Parrish, Carmichael.) As someone who has contributed to this list I can safely say I can see why it is a hard job for thr senior committee to come up with just two players every year. Their are still many deserving players not in the HOF
Very well put Billy.
I ruled players reluctantly into the List and out of the List. I tried to gain information outside their statistics in most cases, especially when I hadn’t seen the player.
I believe there are a few great running backs whose statistics just fall short in the opinion of the HOF voters. Foreman, Muncie, Brown and McCutchenson are those backs. IMO if Foreman had Cutch’s 4.3 avg for his career he’d be a lock. His low rush avg. most years hurt him, while his ability to catch helps him. OK I’ll add Foreman but I have to add Muncie too.
As for Punter – Tommy Davis, while he had a consistantly high avg. kick, he only led the league one time and made the PB only twice. Statistically I’d put Jerrel Wilson on the List before Guy or Davis or probably anyone else. Rick Casares Chicago legend and leading rush yardage with 5,797 yds until Walter Payton. He had a esentially one great year and a solid if not spectacular career. Compared to other FB’s of his time in the HOF, Jim Brown, Jim Taylor, Joe Perry and John Henry Johnson. Rick Casares might have a shot. I’ll add him.
Could probably make a case for Jim Patton if we were hurting to find DB’s. He died in 1973 in a car crash going to see his sister who was dying of cancer. Tragic. I tend to want to push for the living unless there’s a glaring omission.
I really don’t want to add anymore but I’d be open to reducing list if I get concensus.
2010 Revised List
OFFENSE
RT – Al Wistert 4/1/40’s
RG – Walt Sweeney 2/9/60’s-70’s *****
RG – Jerry Kramer 5/3/60’s ???
RG – Dick Stanfel 5/5/50’s
C – Mick Tingelhoff 5/6/60’s-70’s *****
LT – Jim Tyrer 6/9/60-70’s *****
LT – Winston Hill 0/8/60/70’s
QB – John Brodie 1/2/60-70’s
QB – Darle Lamonica 2/4/60’s ???
RB – Floyd Little 1/5/60’s-70’s
RB/FB – Chuck Foreman 1/5/70’s ???
FB – Rick Casares 1/5/50’s-60’s
FB – Don Perkins 1/6/60’s
RE – Billy Wilson 1/6/50’s
E – Billy Howton 2/4/50’s-60’s ???
SE – Pete Retzlaff 1/5/60’s *****
WR – Otis Taylor 2/3/60’s-70’s
WR – Harold Carmichael 0/4/70’s
WR – Drew Pearson 3/3/70’s
WR – Harold Jackson 1/5/70’s-80’s *****
LE – Mac Speedie 3/2/40’s-50’s
LE – Lavvie Dilweg 5/0/20’s-30’s
DEFENSE
RDE – Harvey Martin 1/4/70’s-80’s
RDE – Jim Marshall 0/2/60’s-70’s
RDT – Roger Brown 2/6/60’s *****
NT – Curly Culp 1/6/70’s
LDE – L.C.Greenwood 2/6/70’s
LDE – Gene Brito 3/5/50’s ???
ROLB – Robert Brazile 2/7/70’s-80’s
RLB – Chris Hanburger 4/9/60’s-70’s
RLB – Maxie Baughan 2/9/60’s
RILB – Randy Gradishar 2/7/70’s-80’s
MLB – Bill Bergey 2/5/70’s
MLB – Tommy Nobis 1/5/60’s-70’s
LLB – Joe Fortunato 3/5/50’s-60’s ???
LLB – Chuck Howley 5/6/60’s-70’s
DB – Jack Butler 3/4/50’s
CB/R – Abe Woodson 2/5/60’s *****
CB – Dick Lebeau 0/3/60’s *****
LCB – Lemar Parrish 1/8/70’s
LCB – Erich Barnes 1/6/60’s *****
CB/S – Eddie Meador 2/6/60’s ???
S – Johnny Robinson 6/7/60’s
SS/FS – Dick Anderson 2/3/70’s ???
SS/FS – Jake Scott 2/5/70’s
FS – Cliff Harris 3/6/70’s ???
Comments? Players you can’t stand? Players you want to emphasize?
I added Bill Bergey to the list. ??? means I view as weak contenders. ***** means I view as most deserving.
We have top notch LB’s!!!
Looking at the all-time rushing list, IMO if Foreman doesn’t make it this year he can forget it because there are about 5 players in front of his totals from the same time. I would support Chuck Muncie or Foreman. Muncie was a beast in Don Coryell’s bag of tricks. I also see James Brooks being a serious candidate some day. Can’t deny his numbers and excitement for both San Diego and Cinnci.
Why are the Dallas fans talking up Don Perkins? His totals are the same as Little with a short career. Looks like a good pick to me. I never saw him, was he not that great? Calvin Hill has better numbers than Foreman also. Nobody wants to add him. He was a great receiver.
Damn, Perkins was a 1/6 FB with a 4.1 career, that’s better than Casares’s rushing. Never under 600 yds or over 1,000. Last year was his best. I’m adding him. There’s technically only one 70’s FB in the HOF Csonka although Riggins IMO was more FB than RB. 8,000 yds is the mark for RB’s and it’s soon to be 10,000 or more with the newer decades. Certianly 8,000 for the 80’s and they only have Campbell and Dorsett so there’s room for more. Not sure if Riggins and Payton count as 80’s?? Ottis A. ran for over 10,000 and isn’t getting a sniff.
I’ll cut out all the ???? and more if in agreement. Need to update your opinions on this new page. :) thanks
well, i’m going to stick with my recent 10 nominees, but in the process of deleting tony’s list down some, here’s what i think…..
deletions include:
*Sweeney(no rush on him….let’s get McDaniel, Grimm and IMO Kramer in first)
*Tingelhoff(no rush to put another C in the HOF, especially with Dawson not in yet)
*Lamonica(hate to do it but it was kind of a centimental pick)
*Foreman/Casares/Perkins(sorry, but i think they fall a little short of HOF caliber)
*Taylor/Speedie/Carmichael(i think Howton, Wilson, Retzlaff, Pearson and Jackson are more deserving;Speedie was rejected as a senior nominee once before and i’m not sure they’ll bring him up again, atleast not for a LONG TIME.
*Dilweg is a toss-up
*Marshall(i just don’t think he’s a HOF caliber DL)
*Culp(impressive player but to me not a HOF)
*Brito(Martin and Greenwood will be elected first IMO)
*Brazile/Gradishar(HOF worthy, but they are so soon into their senior eligibility, and i don’t think they stand out over other LB candidates who have waited much longer in the pool)
*Bergy(not a HOF to me)
*Fortunato/Nobis(HOF worthy, but i don’t see them getting in before Howley, Hanburger and Baughan)
*Lebeau(his time will come but not yet in such a loaded DB field)
*Meador(i like Patton better)
*Anderson/Scott(i think they cancel each other out; what makes it tougher on them is that Anderson looks short of the HOF but still is all-decade and ring of honor, while Scott to me is more worthy but isn’t all-decade and isn’t on ROH).
can a voter honestly put Scott in over his team-mate Anderson knowing that above….what do you think Tony?
Chad,
I’m taking Anderson off. He can’t get in with so few ints. LB’s Ham and Buoniconti have just 2 fewer ints. with 32. For that matter LeRoy Jordan at 1/5 has 32 and I always thought he was a HOF guy. Bergey was a wild man with that hair sticking out. Good at 2/5 but played for a sorry team. Any other opinions on him?? or what other 70’s LB is better. I predict LeBeau will be elected this year. How’s that for bold?
See, I think Sweeney is better than Kramer and Grimm.If Grimm gets in it’s political under the table DC monkey business.:) Can’t a Senior Center and Modern one can go into the HOF the same year? Mick deserves it this year:) with his career. Wasn’t it Billy that wanted Foreman? I think Chuck Muncie will be the next RB to get in a few years. He’s got all the stats and at 225lbs was load in Fouts’s passing attack. Jim Marshall 280 straight starts and all-time fumble recoveries with 30. Nose for the ball. They have to notice 4/9 and 2/9 year after year, maybe they never pick Hanburger and Baughan? They might be done with LB’s. LB Larry Morris and DB Meador are all-60’s team. Deron Cherry 3/6 with 50 ints. should get in sometime soon.
I thought we (maybe it was me Lol!!)decided to pick all that were worthy?? I know there’s a temptation to reduce. I can cut way down if I try to guess who has a real shot this year:) No, let’s let the Committee decide? Our list is at 22 O 24 D = 46 now hahaha!! Might have be off now. :)
All the guys on list IMO have a chance, some smaller, some bigger. Like I said if we want to set aside a special consideration group for the best of the best I think we should go that way. This list was work.Lol!!
I don’t know how or why they put Anderson on all-70’s team think over Scott.
It goes back to a flaw I see with the HOF committee making these Decade Teams; it kind of forces their hand to pick those players first. They shouldn’t make such a team. Plenty of media can do that for them. Jake Scott is right at a spot to be an attractive candidate. Roger Werli has the lowest ints for a DB with 40 and ints do matter. It’s part of the job. I’ve looked at all of guys on the int. list and Scott is turn, if he has one it should be soon.:) I always thought Anderson was one of the QB’s on Defense, and did the dirty work with tough licks while Scott laid back and played ballhawk. A very good one but I think Anderson was the better all around player. But he can’t get nominated.
I wouldn’t put much into Scott and the ROH because Shula has a rift with him. Probably has something to do with leaving for the Redskins. Even in the 70’s good players tended to stick with one team. I’m sure it was a money thing.
This is a little bit interesting: http://iqfb.com/2008/02/17/iqfbcom-examines-the-nfl-all-decade-teams-the-1920s/
You can go to: in-depth-studies. I wish it looked at individual players. Bob Griese and Larry Csonka are in HOF but not on all-70’s team. I wonder what percentage in the HOF are outside of the all-decade teams??
I want to hear some more feedback before I revise the list. It takes up too much room to keep pasting. :) Thanks for your help Chad!!
New Line up
OFFENSE
RG – Walt Sweeney 2/9/60’s-70’s
RG – Jerry Kramer 5/3/60’s
RG – Dick Stanfel 5/5/50’s
C – Mick Tingelhoff 5/6/60’s-70’s
LT – Jim Tyrer 6/9/60-70’s
LT – Winston Hill 0/8/60/70’s
RB – Floyd Little 1/5/60’s-70’s
RE – Billy Wilson 1/6/50’s
SE – Pete Retzlaff 1/5/60’s
WR – Harold Jackson 1/5/70’s-80’s
LE – Lavvie Dilweg 5/0/20’s-30’s
DEFENSE
RDT – Roger Brown 2/6/60’s
NT – Curly Culp 1/6/70’s
LDE – L.C.Greenwood 2/6/70’s
ROLB- Robert Brazile 2/7/70’s-80’s
RLB – Chris Hanburger 4/9/60’s-70’s
RLB – Maxie Baughan 2/9/60’s
RILB- Randy Gradishar 2/7/70’s-80’s
MLB – Tommy Nobis 1/5/60’s-70’s
LLB – Joe Fortunato 3/5/50’s-60’s
LLB – Chuck Howley 5/6/60’s-70’s
CB/R – Abe Woodson 2/5/60’s
LCB – Lemar Parrish 1/8/70’s
LCB – Erich Barnes 1/6/60’s
CB/S – Eddie Meador 2/6/60’s
S – Johnny Robinson 6/7/60’s
RS – Jimmy Patton 5/5/50’s-60’s
SS/FS – Jake Scott 2/5/70’s
FS – Cliff Harris 3/6/70’s
Exception:
CB – Dick LeBeau 0/3/60’s – Player and NFL Contributer
I know we lost some favorites but hopefully gained more credibility?? If the player isn’t a 5-time post season player he got cut. That doesn’t seem like to much to ask for HOF. :) Seems to me like we need to get the more obvious in first before the less accomplished.
IMO, you guys found the very best players left not in the HOF. The player are on this list!! These voters can’t run from the success in the numbers of these players.
ZoneBlitz.com,
with just a year left in the current decade is it too soon for us to begin a chat topic speculating on the Team of 2000-09 Decade?
The 80’s All-Decade team has Jim Covert, Dan Hampton, Keith Millard, Dave Butz, and John Anderson. Do those selection seem a little weak to anyone for an All-Star team?
And I don’t even remember John Anderson. I don’t have a clue who he is without looking him up. I do remember Millard was really good for a stretch.
Hampton made the HOF. I hope none of the rest do.
what about speedy duncan? He was a great kick and punt returner and a good defensive back.
Al Wistert is the most deserving name on any of these lists IMO. A two-way tackle, he was also the captain of the Eagles teams that won back-to-back titles in ’48 and ’49. He was first or second team All Pro in all but his rookie year, and certainly would have made more Pro Bowls if only they had started playing them before his next to last season. He is on the 1940’s All Decade Team, and only one other Tackle from that team (George Connor) has been enshrined. Finally, he was one of the pioneers of the shoulder block, which today has completely replaced the cross-body block. The fact that his case has never been heard by the full selection committee is a huge oversight and exactly the kind that the senior committee was created to rectify.
tony….
i would’ve loved to include Howton on your revised list.
at one point in his career, Howton passed Don Hutson to become the NFL’s new all-time reception and receiving yards leader.
Chad,
No biggie, we can revise this list everyday until I have to mail it. :) I’m just considering different things. I’m thinking of cutting the list even more. We don’t need to hi-light the players that are found on the All-Decade teams. I’m sure the voters probably pass that thing around every year.
Humphrey and Hayes weren’t on those lists. I still can’t believe with only two picks to the HOF that they decided on Humphrey. I would of liked to been a fly on the wall when they rejected him. Anyone of us could come up with two players they wouldn’t reject. At least I think. Lol!! Heck, LC Greenwood on the All-70’s team would be a shoe in. Those turkeys just wasted a valuable spot for someone.
On the list I like having a criteria of 5 post season. I also like the idea if you want, say up to two players per person you can put in a special consideration category player like ex. the selection of Dick LeBeau 0/3 and than write a summary why you support them for the HOF. I would support John Brodie that way. Of course it’s looking more and more like just me and you. Lol!!
Here’s a List of deserving players based on the numbers:
NFL Players with 5-Time Post Season outside the All-Decade Teams
OFFENSE
RG – Walt Sweeney 2/9/60’s-70’s
C – Mick Tingelhoff 5/6/60’s-70’s
LT – Winston Hill 0/8/60/70’s
QB – John Hadl 1/6/60’s-70’s
RB – Floyd Little 1/5/60’s-70’s
RB – Chuck Foreman 1/5/70’s
RB – Lawrence McCutcheon 0/5/70’s
RE – Billy Wilson 1/6/50’s
SE – Pete Retzlaff 1/5/60’s
WR – Harold Jackson 1/5/70’s-80’s
DEFENSE
RDE – Bill Stanfill 1/5/70’s
RDT – Roger Brown 2/6/60’s
NT – Curly Culp 1/6/70’s
RLB – Chris Hanburger 4/9/60’s-70’s
RLB – Maxie Baughan 2/9/60’s
RILB- Randy Gradishar 2/7/70’s-80’s
MLB – LeRoy Jordan 1/5/60’s-70’s
MLB – Bill Bergey 2/5/70’s
LLB – Chuck Howley 5/6/60’s-70’s
CB/R –Abe Woodson 2/5/60’s
LCB – Lemar Parrish 1/8/70’s
LCB – Erich Barnes 1/6/60’s
RS – Jimmy Patton 5/5/50’s-60’s
SS/FS – Jake Scott 2/5/70’s
Also:
AFL Players with Post Season within the NFL
LT – Jim Tyrer 6/9/60-70’s
LG – Ed Budde 2/7/60’s-70’s
LDE – Jerry Mays 2/7/60’s-70’s
S – Johnny Robinson 6/7/60’s
All Chiefs!!
Done here you can add a couple players near and dear to your heart with summary of support.
Brad,
Speedy Duncan was an excellent player leading the league in punt return avg three times and 22 career ints. Better than I thought as a 4 time Pro-Bowler. However I’m doubtful he would excite the HOF committee the way he did the fans. Thanks for the suggestion.
The List is complete except for add on players. Please tell me the one or two players of HOF quality you’d like the HOF Committee to consider with a paragraph of support and I will add to my list. I will mail the letter to HOF in a couple of weeks. Include your full name and city ,state if you want credit. Can email to me if you don’t want to share with everyone. :) aparslow@isp.com
OFFENSE
RG – Walt Sweeney 2/9/60’s-70’s
C – Mick Tingelhoff 5/6/60’s-70’s
QB – John Hadl 1/6/60’s-70’s
RB – Floyd Little 1/5/60’s-70’s
RE – Billy Wilson 1/6/50’s
SE – Pete Retzlaff 1/5/60’s
WR – Harold Jackson 1/5/70’s-80’s
DEFENSE
RDT – Roger Brown 2/6/60’s
RLB – Chris Hanburger 4/9/60’s-70’s
RLB – Maxie Baughan 2/9/60’s
RILB- Randy Gradishar 2/7/70’s-80’s
LLB – Chuck Howley 5/6/60’s-70’s
CB/R – Abe Woodson 2/5/60’s
LCB – Lemar Parrish 1/8/70’s
LCB – Erich Barnes 1/6/60’s
RS – Jimmy Patton 5/5/50’s-60’s
SS/FS– Jake Scott 2/5/70’s
Also:
Great AFL Players deserving HOF consideration:
LT – Winston Hill 0/8/60/70’s
LT – Jim Tyrer 6/9/60-70’s
LG – Ed Budde 2/7/60’s-70’s
LDE- Jerry Mays 2/7/60’s-70’s
S – Johnny Robinson 6/7/60’s
Great Players with lesser profiles:
RT – Al Wistert 1/4/40’s
A two-way tackle, he was also the captain of the Eagles teams that won back-to-back titles in ‘48 and ‘49. He was first or second team All Pro in all but his rookie year, and certainly would have made more Pro Bowls if only they had started playing them before his next to last season. He is on the 1940’s All Decade Team, and only one other Tackle from that team (George Connor who played mostly on the 50’s) has been enshrined. Finally, he was one of the pioneers of the shoulder block, which today has completely replaced the cross-body block. Supporter – Kyle ?
Tony Parslow, I would like to tell you who i think deserves to be on the list for the HOF.
Gino Cappelletti 60’s-70’s: Wide Reciever/Kicker/Defensive Back. 5 time Pro Bowler. Multi positional player. Led the AFL in scoring 5 times. Led the AFL in field goals made 3 times. Led the AFL in field goal percentage once. 292 receptions for 4,589 yards, 42 TD’s. In his rookie season, he had 3 Int’s in a game. He is one of three players to play every game in the AFL. He scored 28 points in a game, an AFL record. He was AFL MVP in 1964 and runner-up. His 1,130 points in the AFL is a record. He was top ten in receptions 2 times. He was top ten in receiving yards 4 times. He was top ten in receiving TD’s 4 times. He was top ten in points scored 8 times. Top ten in extra points made 10 times. Top ten in extra points attempted 10 times. Top ten in field goals made 10 times. Top ten in fields goals attempted 10 times. Top ten in field goal percentage 10 times. As you can see, he was a very verstile player.
Jerry Kramer 50’s-60’s: Offensive Guard/Kicker: 3 time Pro Bowler, 5 time All Pro. 2 time Super Bowl champion. A great pulling guard. Blocked for hall of famers such as Quarterback Bart Starr, Running Backs Jim Taylor, Paul Hornung, and played under Hall of Fame coach, Vince Lombardi. He was a great kicker as well. Led the NFL in field goal percentage in 1962. He was a team player. According to the NFL Network, he is the greatest player never to make the HOF.
John Brodie, 50’s-70’s: Quarterback: 2 Time Pro Bowler, 1 Time All Pro. Led the NFL in completions 3 times, attempts 2 times, completion percentage 3 times, passing yards 3 times and passing TD’s 2 times. NFL MVP in 1970. He was barely sacked. He is in the Top 29 all time in passing yards, completions, attempts and TD’s. Mobile for a Quarterback.
Spec Sanders, 40-50’s: Running Back/Quarterback/Punter/Kick Returner/Punt Returner/Defensive Back: 1 time Pro Bowler, 2 Time All Pro. Led the AAFC in rushing yards 2 times, attempts 3 times, rushing TD’s 1 time. Led the AAFC in punt return TD’s 1 time and kick return TD’s 2 times. Led the AAFC in Int TD’s 1 time. Led the AAFC in Int’s 1 time with 13 in just 12 games. He is one of 4 players with 13 Int’s in a season. He is the first player ever with 2,000 all purpose yards. Led the AAFC in scoring in 1947. He only played in 52 games. he was very good in many positions. he avg. 5.4 yards per carry, which is 9th all time. One of few players ever to have a passing TD, rushing TD, receiving TD, punt return TD, kick return TD, and Int. TD.
Tony Latone- He is the “unofficial” rushing leader of the 1920’s. Known as the Human Howitzer, he played for the Pottsville Maroons, including the 1925 team that was stripped of the NFL Championship for playing against college All-Stars in Philadelphia (Frankford Yellow Jackets market), even though they embarassed the Chicago Cardinals 21-7 that year, Chicago was handed the title. He struck more fear in the opposition than “The Galloping Ghost”. Gotta keep this guys name out there.
There is a suspicious lack of Ray Guy on this list.
No, there isn’t–Guy isn’t off the list of regularly eligible players yet. I believe he has two more tries before he would be eligible for the seniors list.
Tony Latone is an interesting player. I read where his team played 4 reagular season games in a 6 day period. If guys did that today there would be few players left uninjured by the end of the week. Tony was a star and he signed a contract paying him $125 per day game. In 1930 they had just started to play night games and the manager only paid 60% of his pay due to the fact he was making the players pay for the new lighting.
It’s funny how time has changed attitudes. A few years back NBA player Latrell Sprewell stated he couldn’t accept the Timberwolves salary offer something like 8 million dollars because he had a family to feed. Sometimes you’d like to force these bozos to step into a time machine as punishment for making such crazy statements. :)
Mike T. – If you or I can find some good stats for Latone I’ll put him on the list for the HOF Committee to consider. I think that might be what hurt Claude Humphrey’s nomination is that the Committee didn’t have enough evidence.You would of thought his supporters could of made a strong case. I blame the Senior Committee for not getting him through or making the selection. Some of us including myself thought he was a weak choice. It sure helps he you’ve seen the player in action. I remember the Falcons well in the early 70’s.
When are you going to make the final List for the HOF?
Brad – Assuming you’re talking to Andy & Me, we will hopefully be getting our predictions up on the Class of 2010 this weekend sometime.
Updated Senior HOF Candidate List
NFL OFFENSE
RT – George Kunz 1/8/60’s-70’s
C – Mick Tingelhoff 5/6/60’s-70’s
RE – Billy Wilson 1/6/50’s
SE – Pete Retzlaff 1/5/60’s
WR – Harold Jackson 1/5/70’s-80’s
NFL DEFENSE
RDT – Roger Brown 2/6/60’s
RLB – Chris Hanburger 4/9/60’s-70’s
RLB – Maxie Baughan 2/9/60’s
RILB- Randy Gradishar 2/7/70’s-80’s
MLB – Lee Roy Jordan 1/5/60’s-70’s
LLB – Chuck Howley 5/6/60’s-70’s
CB/R– Abe Woodson 2/5/60’s
LCB – Lemar Parrish 1/8/70’s
LCB – Erich Barnes 1/6/60’s
RS – Jimmy Patton 5/5/50’s-60’s
SS/FS– Jake Scott 2/5/70’s
————————————————————-
Great AFL/NFL Players deserving HOF consideration:
QB – John Hadl 1/6/60’s-70’s
RB – Floyd Little 1/5/60’s-70’s
RG – Walt Sweeney 2/9/60’s-70’s
LT – Winston Hill 0/8/60/70’s
LT – Jim Tyrer 6/9/60-70’s
LG – Ed Budde 2/7/60’s-70’s
LDE- Jerry Mays 2/7/60’s-70’s
RLB- Larry Grantham 5/5/60’s-70’s
S – Johnny Robinson 6/7/60’s
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Great Players with lesser profiles:
QB – John Brodie 1/2/50’s-60’s-70’s
Over John’s 17 year career he led the NFL in pass attempts twice, completions 3 times, completion percentage 3 times, yards 3 times and passing TD’s twice. John was also a mobile QB, rushing for 1,167 yards and scoring 22 TD’s during his career. Two times he topped a QB rating of 90 with 93.8 and 95.3 respectfully which was a rare occurance even for the greatest QB’s in his era of which John was one. The icing on top for John was being named the NFL MVP in 1970 at the age of 35 and tasting playoff football for the next three years.
When John retired in 1973, he was only the third QB to surpass the 30,000 yard mark with only Unitas and Tittle having more yards. He also was second in completions and in the Top 5 for TD’s thrown. Amazingly after nearly 40 years he still ranks in the Top 30 for passing attempts, completions, yards and TD’s.
It would be hard to imagine someone finishing their career today in such a lofty position and not being in the Hall Of Fame. John Brodie is a great man of character, paid his dues in the Fottball world and in the end acheived greatness. Like many of his fans across America I hope he’ll recieve his due and be inducted into the Hall Of Fame as soon as possible. Thank you for your consideration.
Supporters Bradley Ehringer -New Jersey and Tony Parslow – Texas
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RT – Al Wistert 1/4/40’s
A two-way tackle, he was also the captain of the Eagles teams that won back-to-back titles in ‘48 and ‘49. He was first or second team All Pro in all but his rookie year, and certainly would have made more Pro Bowls if only they had started playing them before his next to last season. He is on the 1940’s All Decade Team, and only one other Tackle from that team (George Connor who played mostly on the 50’s) has been enshrined. Finally, he was one of the pioneers of the shoulder block, which today has completely replaced the cross-body block. Supporter – Kyle ?
Possible add ons: need write-ups
LCB – Dick LeBeau 0/3/60’s-70’s……….
SE – Art Powell 2/4/60’s……….
FL – Gary Collins 0/2/60’s………
Hey Tony, do you want me to do write-ups on Art Powell, Gary Collins, George Bunz, Larry Grantham, Jim Marshall, and Lee Roy Jordan because I will have no problem doing it, if I get some credit for it?
and also ed budde,
Brad,
Thanks for helping out. We only need write-ups on the lower profile players like Marshall, Powell and Collins.
I expect the HOF Committee to take enough interest in those highly qualified players to do a little research.Plus those many of those guys should support.
I’ll do Marshall since I remember him well.
All of those AFL players, are well know except maybe Grantham
so you can write-up on him. I know you’re itching to help a Jet out:)
Anybody out there have comment about these guys? I know Chad wasn’t crazy about Marshall but I want to give him a shot like Brodie.
Chad,Bachslunch and Billy – I want to give you guys credit for your help. Although many of the final names on the list changed youall were vital in the process. If you want credit I’ll need your full name and state. I’ll put all of our names at the bottom of the page.
Hey tony, i already did the write ups for Gary Collins and Art Powell. could you proof read them, and make sure what i said makes sense? Thanks.
Well, I think Larry Grantham was very underrated in his time. thats why i would put him on the list. I will do his write up probably tomorrow.
I wont mind doing a write up on anybody. i will do Larry Grantham, well after all im a Jets fan. But anybody else i wouldn’t mind doing.
Brad,
I’ll be glad too proofread. We have more time so no rush. I’ll let you know about any more right ups. Thanks.
ok, no problem.
Hey Tony, when are you going to update the list?
Guys – As you can probably tell from the Pingback above, I posted our (well, my) thoughts on the 2010 HOF Class.
https://www.zoneblitz.com/2009/02/10/2010-pro-football-hall-of-fame-inductees/
John Anderson was actually a very good linebacker for some terrible Packer teams in the eighties and I believe early nineties. But not a HOFamer!
I’m just really surprised I can’t remember hearing Anderson’s name. Too much fun I guess. Lol!! It was the 80’s :) Except for a year or two with Lofton, the Majic Man and a brief Lynn Dickey resurgence the 80’s were really bad for the Packers. Then Favre showed up and the skies were all blue again.
Tony,
this 2010 section is about done. I’ll be adding my comments to your new one soon. I was using to discuss the make up of a list of Seniors to send to the HOF before the March 1st deadline when Senior Commitee members go to can’t and pick up their mail which includes lots of suggestions. I don’t know what the trend is but with Swann went with an All-Decade player as nominee this year they left the All-Decade with Hayes and Humphrey and were lucky they didn’t get totally burned. I hope they keep reaching some but they need better picks. We’re giving them a lot of good players outside the box so to speak. Brad’s been giving me lots of ideas for players but I think we’ve come to the end. Everyone else seems to be tapped out on the subject from an earlier discussion board. So I’ll put the final list on here near the end of the week so if anyone is curious what players got represented by our discussions they can view.
Tony- out
Last Chance- Senior list essentially done and will be mailed Friday. does Bachsluch have a name and state? Kyle who? from where? I got Billy’s and Brad’s info.
The 2010 NFL Senior Hall of Fame Candidates
Great NFL Offense Players
RT – George Kunz 1/8/60’s-70’s
C – Mick Tingelhoff 5/6/60’s-70’s
LG – John Niland 2/6/60’s-70’s
RE – Billy Wilson 1/6/50’s
SE – Pete Retzlaff 1/5/60’s
WR – Harold Jackson 1/5/70’s-80’s
Great NFL Defense Players
RDT – Roger Brown 2/6/60’s
RLB – Chris Hanburger 4/9/60’s-70’s
RLB – Maxie Baughan 2/9/60’s
RLB – Andy Russell 0/7/60’s-70’s
RILB- Randy Gradishar 2/7/70’s-80’s
MLB – Lee Roy Jordan 1/5/60’s-70’s
MLB/ILB – Bill Bergy 2/5/70’s
LB/K- Les Richter 1/8/50’s-60’s
LLB – Chuck Howley 5/6/60’s-70’s
CB/R– Abe Woodson 2/5/60’s
LCB – Lemar Parrish 1/8/70’s
LCB – Erich Barnes 1/6/60’s
RS – Jimmy Patton 5/5/50’s-60’s
SS/FS– Jake Scott 2/5/70’s
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Great AFL or AFL/NFL Players deserving HOF consideration:
QB – John Hadl 1/6/60’s-70’s
RB – Floyd Little 1/5/60’s-70’s
RG – Walt Sweeney 2/9/60’s-70’s
LT – Winston Hill 0/8/60/70’s
LT – Jim Tyrer 6/9/60-70’s
C/LB – E.J. Holub 2/5/60’s
LG – Ed Budde 2/7/60’s-70’s
LDE- Jerry Mays 2/7/60’s-70’s
S – Goose Gonsoulin 2/5/60’s
S – Johnny Robinson 6/7/60’s
RLB- Larry Grantham 5/5/60’s-70’s
Larry wasn’t highly regarded by the NFL Draft coming out of Mississippi. He was undersized at 6’0″ 210lbs and ultimately joined the New York Titans of the AFL. It didn’t take long for the league to recognize his ferocious hitting and knack for the ball.
In 1960, his rookie season, Larry finished with 5 int’s which is exceptional for a LB. He earned 1st team All-AFL honors his very first year and the next 4 seasons after making him a 5 for 5 on the 1st team All-AFL.
He also was invited to the Pro-Bowl in 3 of those years.
Than came the down side of Larry’s career (TIC!) where from 1965-1969 he was selected 2nd Team All-AFL 5 straight years by one publication or another and went to 2 more Pro-Bowls in 1966 and 1969. Just FYI in 1967 he had another 5 int year but failed to make the Pro-Bowl.
A remarkable feat for any player in any league is that Larry Gratham played at such a high level for 10 straight years. And then in 1969 his excellence was rewarded finally with a Super Bowl ring as a member of the New York Jets in Super Bowl III. It was he and his staunch Defense that was responsible for the stunning win over the Baltimore Colts 16-7 in that Super Bowl. Ironically the Colts were the team that had drafted Larry in the 15th Round in 1960 basically taking a pass on his ability to play in the NFL.
Larry Grantham played for two more years finishing out his career as a life long New York Titan-Jets player. His 12th and last year still brought recognition as a 2nd tean all-conference player(UPI). We know there were other great LB’s in the AFL named Nick Bouniconti, Bobby Bell and Willie Lanier. That’s two MLB and one LLB. Surely we have room for an AFL RLB?? He sure desrves it in my book.
Supporter – Bradley Ehringer -New Jersey
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Great Players with lesser profiles who deserve consideration:
QB – John Brodie 1/2/50’s-60’s-70’s
Over John’s 17 year career he led the NFL in pass attempts twice, completions 3 times, completion percentage 3 times, yards 3 times and passing TD’s twice. John was also a mobile QB, rushing for 1,167 yards and scoring 22 TD’s during his career. Two times he topped a QB rating of 90 with 93.8 and 95.3 respectfully which was a rare occurance even for the greatest QB’s in his era of which John was one. The icing on top for John was being named the NFL MVP in 1970 at the age of 35 and tasting playoff football for the next three years.
When John retired in 1973, he was only the third QB to surpass the 30,000 yard mark with only Unitas and Tittle having more yards. He also was second in completions and in the Top 5 for TD’s thrown. Amazingly after nearly 40 years he still ranks in the Top 30 for passing attempts, completions, yards and TD’s.
It would be hard to imagine someone finishing their career today in such a lofty position and not being in the Hall Of Fame. John Brodie is a great man of character, paid his dues in the Fottball world and in the end acheived greatness. Like many of his fans across America I hope he’ll recieve his due and be inducted into the Hall Of Fame as soon as possible. Thank you for your consideration.
Supporter – Anthony Parslow – Texas
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RT – Al Wistert 1/4/40’s
A two-way tackle, he was also the captain of the Eagles teams that won back-to-back titles in ‘48 and ‘49. He was first or second team All Pro in all but his rookie year, and certainly would have made more Pro Bowls if only they had started playing them before his next to last season. He is on the 1940’s All Decade Team, and only one other Tackle from that team (George Connor who played mostly on the 50’s) has been enshrined. Finally, he was one of the pioneers of the shoulder block, which today has completely replaced the cross-body block. Supporter – Kyle unknown ?
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WR – Roy Jefferson 1/3/60’s/70’s
Roy spent his first five NFL seasons with the Pittsburgh Steelers (1965-1969). In 1966 he caught 32 paases for an impressive 24.1 yds per reception which still ranks in the Top 25 All-Time. In 1968 Roy led the NFL in receiving yards with 1,074yds and was named to his 1st Pro-Bowl. Than in 1969 he finished the season with 67 receptions for 1,079 yds, 9 TDS and became the first Steelers receiver to post back-to-back 1,000-yard seasons. And subsequently made a 2nd Pro-Bowl trip and was named 1st Team All-Pro by Associated Press (AP).
In 1970, Jefferson was traded to the Baltimore Colts where he had another successful season teaming up an aging Johnny Unitas for 44 receptions, 749 yards and 7 TDS. More importantly was Roy’s team’s success as an important member of the Colt’s Super Bowl V win over Dallas. In route to the Championship Roy caught a 45-yard touchdown pass in their 17-0 Divisional playoff win over the Cincinnati Bengals and had 3 receptions for 52 yards in the Super Bowl win.
From 1971 thru to the end of his career in 1976 Roy played for the highly successful Washington Redskins. Roy made another Pro-Bowl appearance in 1971. In 1972 he was again an important player for a team making a Super Bowl run. Unfortunately the Redskins lost to the Miami Dolphins, a team destined for a “Perfect Season”. Roy Jefferson was however one of few bright spots catching 5 passes for 50 yds in a game that had no points by the Redskin’s Offense.
Roy Jefferson was a fantastic WR for two teams over his 12 year NFL career. It’s pretty rare for a player to be regarded as a Legend for two organizations. That shows a career of greatness and consistancy. He clearly showed he could be “The Superstar” with the Steelers. And also fit into the Redskin’s balanced Offense being a “Star” WR opposite HOF WR – Charley Taylor and PB TE – Jerry Smith and along with the running game of “Hardnosed” Larry Brown. His stat line reflects his skills with 451 catches, 7,539 yds, 16.7 yd per catch and 52 TDS. Enough said, Roy Jefferson has slipped through the HOF cracks. Please strongly consider him this year. Supported by – Anthony Parslow-Texas
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WR/P – Gary Collins 0/2/60’s
Collins was a first round draft pick by the Cleveland Browns. He was a great weapon in two ways as a receiver and a punter. Collins punted for six seasons, leading the league once (in the cold weather of Cleveland no less !! and still managed to star at wide receiver.
As a punter, in 1962 he averaged 42.8 yards per punt as a rookie which was in top ten. Than in 1963 he had a 73 yard which was the longest punt of the year. And finally in 1965 he averaged an exceptional 46.7 yds per kick.
Along with those punting skills he had great hands ( 2 fumbles during entire career!!) as a WR and at 6’5″ his lanky figure provided his QB – Frank Ryan with a great target who ran well. His repectable career average of 16.0 yds per catch reflects his running ability. He wasn’t catching modern dinks and dunks like the modern day Cris carter. There were four years Collins exceeded 10 or more TD catches in a season with his best being 13 TDS in 1965. The previous season in route to the 1964 Championship over the Baltimore Colts(with MVP QB Unitas), Collins caught 3 TD passes of 18,42 and 51 yds to be a hero of an old fashioned shalacking, 27-0.
Gary Collins had a great career in the NFL playing for the Browns from 1962-1971. When he retired after the 1971 season the only NFL players in front of his TD mark of 70 were now Hall of Famer’s Don Hutson and Tommy McDonald. Pretty remarkable that he finished third on the NFL TD list and he’s not in the HOF. There’s definetly a real reluctance to put WR’s into the HOF that I don’t understand.
The Browns went 92-45-3 during the seasons Gary played for them with one World Championships and many trips to the playoffs. Gary Collins was a big part of the Browns winning. I know it would be easy to overlook his greatness because of his teams balanced approached. He could of easily had more receptions if RB teammates named Jim Brown and Leroy Kelly weren’t so successful. Much like WR’s Warfield and Swann he has lower career catches due to a team full of greatness but it shouldn’t diminish any of Gary’s own greatness either IMO. Please consider Gary Collins strongly for the HOF.
Supporters – Bradley Ehringer -New Jersey and Anthony Parslow – Texas
Discussion Contributors:
Billy Waller – Vermont
Bradley Ehringer – New Jersey
Anthony Parslow – Texas
Kyle?
Special Thanks to ZONEBLITZ.COM !
My vote would go for Eddie Meador. Played 12 years, All Pro for 4-5 yrs, made the All 60’s Decade team at safety & after all these years, he STILL LEADS he Rams in interceptions!!!!!
John, Eddie is a good choose. Look at the list above. It is hard to pick 2 players for the senior nominee. email me at bradehringer1@gmail.com if anyone has a question about the NFL HOF, NBA HOF, and MLB HOF. You can just email me about anything sports related.
i cant believe no one has mention # 43 larry brownof the washington redskins. larry brown is one of the toughest running back in nfl history. larry, played hurt, played hard and took great puninishment but he played HARD!!!!!! please give LARRY BROWN his dues.
Tommy Nobis stacks up against any of the 20+ Linebackers in the HOF. I know that he played on some bad teams, but how many playoff teams did Butkus play for. If he chooses the Oilers over Falcons with his numbers and awards he is in. Lets start looking at what old # 60 did on the field. Eugene
Eugene, I understand what your trying to say. But, I don’t think Nobis can stack against Jack Lambert, Ted Hendricks, Lawrence Taylor, etc.
Brad, ask any of the guys that he played against in his era, most would say that they would rather play against Butkus. Would you agree that Larry Csonka was one of the very best? he made that very statement. I have talked to many HOF from all era’s and the word is the same that Tommy Nobis belongs and that he is one of the ALL TIME GREATS! check out my website longhornliveradio.com I have started a grassroots to make people aware how great Tommy was in his era.
Right on Eugene! Many players have said Nobis was a beast. And he was every bit the tackler Dick Butkus was and should be recognize by the HOF voters.
I wouldn’t compare Tommy Nobis to “The Stork” or “Dracula” who were given great recognition playing for winning organizations and having tremendous players along side them. And Taylor wasn’t close to the time Nobis played and we all know how the game evolved from the 60’s to the 80’s.
I hope Nobis gets the recognition he deserves.
I got a guy for you: Larry Grantham. He was a 5/5. He was very underrated. Should have been a 7/8 at least. Should be in the HOF next to Joe Willie, Don Maynard, John Riggins, Ronnie Lott, and Art Monk. And I know Riggins is a Skin, Lott is a 49er, and Monk is a Skin. But, the Jets don’t have that many HOFer, you know? Here is my list of future Jet HOFers:
RB: Curtis Martin (no Doubt)
WR: Keyshawn Johnson (probably not)
C: Kevin Mawae (yes. If he can play another 2 seasons and squeeze out a PB, Man, he could be a lock)
C: Nick Mangold (I know its early, but he is on the right track)
DE: John Abraham (should have PBed and APed this year, itching closer to 100 sacks)
DB: Darrelle Revis (1 of the best CB’s in the game right now)
Brad :),
I’m telling you Mawae is already a lock! He’s been one of the best at a week position for a long time. Plus Matt Birk sank like a rock last year!!
I think Abraham is still a long ways from the HOF and is already in his 30’s. If he can step up his profile with a couple great years where the Falcon’s win a Super Bowl or have playoff success he has a shot. His problem is lack recognition outside of the NY. I thought he was a LB. I agree he should of went to PB last year so maybe he’ll get his due this year.
Larry Grantham got special consideration from you and I in our letter to the HOF in March. Hopefully he will get noticed from our support. Anyone that missed it along with the others supported can scroll up slightly on this thread.
I’m wondering why Tommy Nobis was off our list. I think it was because I knew he had strong support already from Longhorn Nation of which I’ve been a 40 year native.
Tommy Nobis certaintly should be considered HOF worthy, but he is in a pack of other LB’s that have similar arguments. Chuck Howley, Randy Gradishar, Chris Hanburger all may be in line infront of him and a player who just became eligible who was very similar to Nobis is Robert Brazille. He never got much love from the regular committee.
Only Hanburger and Howley played when Nobis did.
Along with Maxie Baughan a 2/9, Hanburger 4/9, Howley 5/6, and Nobis 1/5 all seem to have slim chances for the HOF IMO.
Dave Wilcox a 2/7, 2000 HOF inductee and Nick Buoniconti a 5/8, 2001 HOF inductee likely took the last of the LB positions from the 60’s-70’s. Who knows if the voters feel like there’s still room for one more LB from the 60’s? It’s been 8 years so if it will happen it should happen in the next 5 years before the new group gains sentiment.
Gradishar and Brazile are new to the Seniors and I thought they were locks years ago for the HOF.
I honestly think Cliff Harris should have some credit. He was excellent with the Cowboys in the 1970’s. 3/6. Randy Gardishar should be in and Robert Brazile is borderline to me.
does anyone know when the first cut will be? Tommy will go into the Hall. I would just like to see Him be able to enjoy it unlike Bob Hayes who changed the complexity of football.
Chuck Howley was a good player consistent, but Hall worthy? Chris Hanburger, the same Good played way above his talent, but Hall? Nobis let his stats and awards speak for themselves. Guys pull the 20+ LB’s
and their #”s did it by position, era, and Nobis is right along with them. If Dallas wins just one of those Pittsburg super bowls Cliff Harris is in.
Sorry guys but I have to disagree on Cliff Harris. He might be HOF worthy but as long as SB MVP Jake Scott 2/5 is out with his 49 int’s I think Harris’s HOF election is doubtful. Scott was a better player than Harris and the hardest hitter on Miami’s team. But he’s lived like a reclouse since retirement and reportedly is bitter towards the Dolphins especially Shula and maybe the NFL. Shula won’t even put Scott in the Ring of Honor. I think the HOF voters are waiting for him to die before they elect him .
Harris is overrated in my mind. He is in the Joey Browner, Darren Woodson class. Meador and Lebeau were better players, Patton as well. Scott and Anderson were very good tandem, but maybe not good enough individually to get in.
Eugene,
Unlike the Modern Era elections which decide/announce their 25 nominees in mid-October, I don’t think the two Seniors nominees (16 and 17) are announced until November’s meeting to reduce the Modern players to 15 nominees has been completed.
The Senior process is all behind the scenes from June 1st to November. Here’s more detail of note about the process. Please let me know if I have this wrong. Let’s hope they select 2 senior players who will make it this year.
From the NFL HOF website:
How is a Senior Candidate Chosen?
Like the full Committee, the members of the Seniors Committee are provided a preliminary list of eligible nominees. The list, which is compiled and mailed to the selectors by June 1, includes carry-over nominations from the previous year, first-time eligible candidates, and nominations from any outside source. By way of a mail ballot the Committee members reduce the list to 15 Senior Nominee finalists. Five members of the nine-man Committee, selected on a rotating basis, are designated to attend the annual Seniors Committee meeting held in Canton, where they are charged with the responsibility of nominating two candidates from that list to be among the 17 finalists for Hall of Fame election. In advance of the meeting, each selector is provided with detailed biographical information on the candidates.
Senior Committee members are assisted during their annual meeting by two Hall of Fame consultants, chosen by the Hall’s president, who were contemporaries of the majority of the nominees. The consultants offer only their opinions and are not entitled to vote. After each candidate is discussed thoroughly, the consultants are excused from the meeting. Additional discussion is conducted followed by a series of reduction votes that results in the naming of two Senior Nominees.
Although the Senior Nominees will be presented to the full Selection Committee as two of the 17 finalists, their election to the Hall of Fame is not automatic. The Senior Nominees must receive the same minimum 80% of the vote as a Modern Era candidate to be elected.
Rick Casares had the misfortune of playing 12 game seasons for the first six seasons with the Bears, yet when he retired in 1966 he was the sixth leading rusher on the all-time list. He held the Bears rushing total record until Walter Payton broke it, and is still third on the all-time list for a storied franchise with a terrific history of running backs. He was one of the great fullbacks in his era (along with Jim Brown, Ollie Matson, John Henry Johnson and Joe Perry) when fullbacks were the primary ball carrier. Also was a sure handed receiver, one of the best coming out of the backfield. He was the face of the great Bears teams of the 1950’s, and will someday be elected. He turns 78 this year….it sure would be nice for him to experience it in person.
I am too young to have seen Casares play, but from what I have read and heard about him is that he is very deserving of a HOF bid. He was tough and athletic. I’ve heard many old-timers put him in the same class as John Henry Johnson, Marion Motley and Larry Csonka. I once heard Tom Landry say after Brown and Perry, Casares was the best FB he had ever seen.
it otis taylor time
M Goss, RicK Casares’s time to get in was early in the 1980’s I suspect, and likely he was left out of the HOF by a whisker. Maybe too many other Bears to tend too first. :) Now he lacks name recognition IMO except for Chicagans and historians. Also he had only one 1,000 yd season.
That said his numbers are good for a FB and I can see where he was very valuable to Chicago’s Offense and one of the best players in his time. Looks like Willie Galimore took half of his yards after 1956. I wonder why after his great 1,200 yd season Casares had to share his carries. Jim Brown didn’t share. :) It looks like he had another 4 or 5 1,000 yd seasons left. Seems like he was under used. Anyway based on what I know I’d vote for his HOF induction. He really is one of the very few left that I’ve felt is being overlooked for the HOF. Some say Floyd Little is next but he’s a decade later.
Today’s voters are tough and they may count a couple things against Casares One thing they may count against him is many season under 4.0 yd a carry. But that’s the nature of coming out of the FB set. Another is I don’t think the voters will see a need to add another RB to the HOF from that era since the just elected John Henry Johnson into the HOF . I really don’t see much difference in accomplishment between Johnson and Casares. Does anyone know if Johnson was much more skilled?
I’m not sure if the voters see a difference between a FB and a HB? It will be interesting to see if any of today’s FB get the nod despite very few yards. It’s possible we never even see Casares yards a season again. Too bad Casares didn’t get the TV exposure in those early days that players have gotten since 1970 and Monday Night Football.
Marvm, not enough Chiefs in our HOF support letter? Lol!! Guess we missed one. :)
Otis Taylor proved his ability in the NFL. I have no problem if he makes HOF. Hard to say he was much better than “00” IMO but being on a winner means a lot. Might be tricky getting so many more Chiefs in the HOF. They can’t help it that they were that good . Lol!! I can see 4 more Chiefs as legit HOFers before were done. Isn’t making Al very happy LOL!!. Personally I draw the line at Ed Podalak!!
I’d support more Chiefs for HOF but only if I get some more Dolphins off our Defense.:) Voters are taking that No-Name Defense thing too seriously.
The two Seniors nominees are announced in late August, they are automatic finalists and are voted on first and separate from the 15 modern era nominees at the election meeting the Saturday before the Superbowl
Even though the official HOF website didn’t give a specific date for the announcement of the two Senior selections the wording lead me to think the two Seniors (16 and 17) weren’t announced until the Final 15 Modern players in November.
Sorry if I put out bad info. August is more better. :) Thanks Post Boy for correcting me.
Its the 50 yr anniversary of The Ameriacan football League! Its about time more players get their due.Tops on that list an tops on the AFL Hall Of Fame list is Chiefs Legend Johnny Robinson. Although He played his first 3 yrs as a running back his stats and game changing abilities have been well publicized. John Hadl who is a strong supporter for Johnny to get Enshrined wrote in a letter that statedas follows1 induction into the Pro Football Hall of Fame is a well overdue honor that Johnny Robinson exceedingly deserves.His leadership,physical abilities,character, and personal contribution to the game of football are worthy of this honor.I have never competed against a more clever free safety during my 16 yr career.In addition leading a world championship team,he brought the position to a higher standard of play as was apparent by his 7 time pro bowl achievement.He is an amazing credit to the game of football from playing a SuperBowl with 3 broken ribs to being interception leader 5 times while with the Kansas City Chiefs.His dedication is clear by being one of only twenty players who was in the American Football League for its entire ten yr existence.the role of Safety was redefined as Johnny gained respect of his teammates as well as his fans.Besides his obvius phsical contributions to the game his character is a demonstration to Pro Athletes everywhere of a life led by a higher standard.ho operates a boys camp in Monroe,La,and has been a long-time supporter of childrens causes.few others have exhibited a life that impartially shows such support and help for the community.his spirituality led him to be a full-time minister,leaving a lasting impression on the lives of others.he deserves to be in the Pro Football hall Of Fame due to his contributions not only to the game of football but to the lives of others. please consider Johnny Robinson For nomination. Sincerely, John Hadl. What a impressive letter by the great John hadl. Please everyone consider Johnny Robinson strongly his recent health related issues need it to be more pressing now more than ever while he is still living to enjoy his moment thanks.
Troy,
Johnny Robinson is in the AFL Hall Of Fame and with a post season of 6/7 I doubt he hasn’t been noticed for many years. Hadl’s letter of support should help.
I believe AFL greats that didn’t do it on the NFL level are being given the respect they maybe deserve. Why else would there only be one AFL only player to make to the NFL HOF? Johnny is listed on my Feb. 19th entry. Check out the list. Others had input and I think it’s a pretty deserving list of guys. Too bad the NFL is so far behind and than last year we only got one of senior players voted in. We can’t afford to waste picks IMO.
Jim Tyrer is another very deserving player with a 6/9 post season. I think they should just put the whole Kansas City Chief’s SB winning line up in the HOF. :)
Hadl’s letter was good but unfortunately I don’t think voters care about what Robinson did after football or if he’s ill. A lot of players would be left out if that was the case or others like John Brodie would be in the HOF by now. Brodie is one of the nicest guys ever and still waiting years after a bad stroke for his induction. Not a good omen for Robinson.
Brodie was one of the players we hilighted because we thought he was deserving. Check him out. Someone should write a nice letter for John Hadl like he did. I would of written a letter of support for him but I thought Brodie was slightly more deserving. I feel badly for Brodie like you do for Robinson.
Here is other players who are worthy from the AFL:
RB: Jim Nance
TE: Ernie Warlick (if he kept playing, he would have consideration)
TE: Fred Arbanas
RB/TE: Billy Cannon
G: Bob Talamini
C: Jon Morris
DE: Ron McDole
P/LB: Paul Maguire
LB: Mike Stratton
S: George Saimes
I feel all your pain and yes several other chiefs from sb should be considered also. My problem is the selectors do not know enough about the players from the past. The pro football selection process is seriously flawed and lacking vision like other league Halls. I believe the induction ceremonies take far to long and the amount of senior players inducted should definately be raised to coincide with modern era players. Split the days up with seniors one day modern era the next. With all the bright minds out there a plan could be hatched and put into place but the system needs to be revised. Compared to baseball etc the Football hall of fame process is outdated and quite frankly sucks. I know people who have attended the ceromonies and although loved the chance to be a part of it they all said they were miserable due to the length of it. Anyone else have a good idea of how this process can be changed for the better. I also believe Coaches etc should be involved in the selection process many sports writers are just not in touch with the players etc.
Troy,
I could go along with adding say two more Seniors which which should allow two or three or maybe even four players to enter the HOF every year. This letting in one at a time business sucks.
I personally don’t think the way the Seniors are chosen is flawed. Basically the same nine Veteran Sports Writers research the older players every year. They break the total eligible down 15 players, than another meeting is held to break it down to the final 2 Senior Players. This meeting consists of only five of the nine Sports Writers and they rotate each year.
The HOF states the meeting like this:
“Senior Committee members are assisted during their annual meeting by two Hall of Fame consultants, chosen by the Hall’s president, who were contemporaries of the majority of the nominees. The consultants offer only their opinions and are not entitled to vote. After each candidate is discussed thoroughly, the consultants are excused from the meeting. Additional discussion is conducted followed by a series of reduction votes that results in the naming of two Senior Nominees.”
I know very little but what I’ve learned recently. But I would say if there’s a flaw maybe it lies with the other 35 Sports Writers who weren’t involved in the process of picking the 2 Seniors but are now left to be the final say. I suspect all of these Writers are old enough to ever of seen these older players play. I don’t know how well the Seniors are presented?? That would be vital!! It would seem hard to vote on someone you barely heard about.
Like last year they wouldn’t vote Claude Humphrey in with the 80% of the vote. Humphrey isn’t a household name so maybe people were reluctant to vote him. I suspect many more had heard of “Bullet” Bob Hayes an his blazing speed. Plus he played on America’s Team. Humphrey played for a perennial loser in Atlanta. 80% means roughly 9 people rejected him. Those previous people went through a lot of work selecting those two players. That seems like a high number of people to think they were wrong. The voters certianly aren’t giving the Senior Selection Committee much benefit of the doubt. I wish they would release how the Writers voted. I wouldn’t of selected Humphrey myself but if he was presented well I’d of given him the benefit of the doubt. He certianly was an excellent player.
I think it’s a GREAT idea to split up the Senior Induction from the Modern Induction. I would imagine most people from out of town come in the night before. They could do a few Seniors inductions on Friday night in a classy banquet type evening (inside so people don’t melt) and induct the Modern players in the traditional way on Saturday with the annual Game.
It’s late and I’ve been on chat regarding the Great-Steve McNair’s death much of the night. So sad!
We should discuss McNair’s career and HOF angle soon — Tony or Andy???????
At a quick glance, I will give a no answer or maybe. I’ll research maybes and give more detail later.
RB: Jim Nance – no
TE: Fred Arbanas – maybe
RB/TE: Billy Cannon – no
G: Bob Talamini – maybe
C: Jon Morris – maybe
DE: Ron McDole – maybe
P/LB: Paul Maguire – no
LB: Mike Stratton – maybe
S: George Saimes – no
Next year I’m devoting my time to getting only AFL Players into the HOF. Too many great ones being over looked by the NFL.
Tony thanks for the info and your take I like your idea for seperate Seniors induction ceromony they should look into all you mentioned and im glad to see you want to devote more time on the afl players next year. That was an amazing league that had the NFL were they wanted I just wish Lamae Hunt had listened more to Al Davis ( I know his gone a little crazy lately) but back then he was a genius and an inovator like Hunt. He tried to persuade the Other owners mainly Lamar Hunt to hold out another year. Hunt so eager to join ranks, went agianst him. Had they held out the AFL would have been had even more insight say in what transpired.One of the main things was keeping the AFL as a division instead of renaming to the AFC etc. Most of what the NFL became was adopted from the AFL down to the names on the jerseys.But many people dont know this because the NFL for years has down played the AFL. AT the end the AFL was signing the best athletes and certainly playing a better brand of football. They had one over the audiences tv and the best Athletes from even the NFL were bolting to the AFL.They had the NFL right were they needed them. Take a look at some of the most succesful teams in the NFL today many and the majority are former AFL teams. Also look how many former AFL teams have won the SuperBowl. Its a credit to the league,the players most importantly, and to the FOOLISH CLUB for there genius ideas.Thats why I believe more AFL players should be Elected because it was their BLOOD,SWEAT and LOVE for the game that has made PRO FOOTBALL what is is today. Their sacrifices, with low pay,paved the way for the they millionaire players of today,who dont appreciate and play they game with the heart and integrity of the players of the 1960’s of the AFL and NFL. In closing I want to tell you that Johnny Robinson Is my cousin. He lives here in Monroe,Louisiana as I do. I visit him regularly in fact I watched him sign over 1500 autographs for a sports collector a few weeks ago in his home and did it with kindness and was honored to due so for this man. My young son of 10yrs watched and assisted handing Johnny photos,Helmets,etc to sign. I Am so glad Johnny is able and still with us and that my young son is able to witness his famous legendary cousin due such a good deed. Its something he will always remember. If you have anything you wish to relay to Johnny I would be glad to do so. He gets many letters from fans etc. The older he gets the more he appreciates people such as yourself and takes pride in knowing he may touch a persons life. I will tell him of this site and If you you are interested I can and will send you a picture etc from him autographed to you if you are interested. He is kind and very generous! I am proud to share the same last name with such a person.
“Bucko” Kilroy was a great football player and served the NFL well during his 64 years in the league. His contributions to the game are epic and should be honored on the highest level. He maybe gone now but his memory should live on for ever in the NFL’s Hall of Fame in Canton, OH.
Chuck Howley was ahead of his time in terms of being an athletic OLB who had a game changing impact. Member of the exclusive 20 sack/20 interception club; first team All Pro five straight years; first defensive player to win Super Bowl MVP after recording two interceptions and a fumble recovery; still the only player to be selected as MVP from the losing team; was also under serious MVP consideration the next year when they won after another interception (40 yard return) and fumble recovery; was the greatest linebacker on some of the greatest defenses of all time. Hard to believe the Dallas Cowboys have exactly zero linebackers in the Hall of Fame. Personally I think Howley is the most deserving still outstanding player from the senior era not to be in the Hall of Fame, and it would be nice if he could get in while he’s still able to enjoy it.
Troy, thanks for your kind words. I’ve only been associated with this site since last August. What I know is that any time the AFL and Pro Football HOF are mentioned so is the name Johnny Robinson as being one of the most deserving. I believe many people must of saw him play. He must of been a hell of a player. His statistics alone are awesome. There’s a guy that goes by “bachslunch” that pops in on this site. He saw a lot of the pre-70’s players. I’d be interested in his opinion about Johnny and the HOF. He knows a lot and is a real straight shooter.
I only began to be a fan of football in 1970 so I unfortunately missed out on seeing the old AFL League play their games. I do however consider myself to be somewhat of a historian regarding most sports with football being my favorite. I only wish I had the Internet when I was a kid. Lol!! I only had a couple encyclopedias that I would wear the heck out of daily. Of course I recieved Pro Football Weekley and Sport the magazine.
Recently I’ve noticed they vastly improved the AFL HOF website by adding more content.
http://www.remembertheafl.com/AFLHallOfFame.htm
In there they give the name of a guy to contact at the NFL HOF regarding the need to get more AFL Players into the HOF. There’s one player from the AFL only in the NFL HOF named Billy Shaw so we know it’s possible. With your Uncle’s career numbers and over a 10 year career (which was long for those days) and playing for a SB Champion it sure seems like he could be next in line. I just noticed Johnny played in the NFL also and made the PB. So he proved himself there too. What are the voters thinking about. Starting to seem like a travesty to me. You got my support. :)
This is the best site to compare statistics:
http://www.sports-reference.com/
Other than John Hadl’s letter are you recieving other assistance like signatures of support? Hopefully John’s letter will carry lots of weight with the Committee.
I’m sure Johnny must of had some mixed emotions about his teammate – Emmitt Thomas’s induction into the HOF in 2008. With nearly equal int’s. and for Johnny to have been to 2 more Pro Bowl’s and named to 6 more All-Pro Teams than Emmitt. Johnny must wonder about the election process after that. What if anything has Emmitt said to him?? How’s that for a question? And is Emmitt supporting his entrance in any way into the HOF? That kind of support seems to make a difference when Lynn Swann pushed for his teammate John Stallworth.
Sure, I’d love to have an autographed pic of a legend and future NFL HOFer. :) I’m your neighbor in Texas! We had many people from Louisana stay in the area after Katrina. Nice people.
Contact me at aparslow@isp.com Thanks!!
One other thing Troy. Johnny was drafted #1 by the NFL Detroit Lions in 1960. So the NFL knew he was already a very good player that had potential to be a great Pro player. Did Hank Stram do one his famous recruiting trips? Lol!! Why did he chose the AFL over the NFL? That seems to make it all the more strange to me that he’s not in the HOF yet.Johnny retired. :)
I’m also a supporter of Curly Culp. I know I used up my one question but Curly was very good in Houston after he left the Chiefs. What about Curly and his HOF chances?
I just just dawned on me. I’d tell you who my favorite team is but Johnny might tell you not to associate with my kind. Lol!!! Don’t anyone here give it up. Lol!!! Tony – out
Tony yes I know about Johnny being a #1 draft pick and the war that went with it but it went to the courts and he was awarded to the chiefs. It was the best thing that ever happened to him. He was an all sec running back at LSU along with Billy Cannon in the same backfield. He was also an all sec tennis player for LSU and was drafted by the reds I do believe ill have to ask him again which team for certain as a catcher. He was a .500 hitter in high school and averaged an astonishing 25 to 30 points a game in basketball. he was a state champion tennis player in high school along with track. His athleticism has been well documented in Louisiana. He is a member of the Missourri sports Hall Of Fame,The Louisiana Sports Hall of Fame, LSU Hall of Fame,AFL Hall of Fame,Kansas city Chiefs Hall of Fame.He played in 164 career games. Probowl/allstar 63’64’65’66’67’68’ Nfl 70′ in 1970 he led intire Nfl with 10 interceptions. He scored 18 career Interceptions(his first 2 years he was a running back) but name another safety with 18 touchdowns! He is a member of get this The PRO FOOTBALL HALL OF FAME ALL 60’S DECADE TEAM AND THE PRO FOOTBALL HALL OF FAME 1st SUPERBOWL TEAM. He is a member of the all time super bowl team. AS a running back he had 150 carries 658yds 6tds 77 catches 1,228 yds 9 tds in 1960 and 61 He had 57 career interceptions which he is still tied on the list for 10th best all time. Was on a league championship team in 62’63’69 and played in superbowl 1 and 4 winning Superbowl 4! He has actually let me wear his superbowl ring at easter once its so fine and huge lol! Also one the college football 1958 national championship. He has been a champion in every sport his entire life. Many may not know this but he was the leader of that great chiefs defense calling the plays etc since he was a converted offensive player he was able to recognize many plays before they happened. Coach Stram said he was the smartest player he ever coached. you didnt have to tell Johnny what to do he knew from instinct. You should see him watching a game today he still can call the play before it happens ive asked him how he knew that and he said son I cant explain it to you its just instinctive. Im astonished at his skills and smarts.Ill send you an email and ill get you a picture for sure. Have you been to the AFL hall of fame site recently. Have you seen on the main page as you scroll down the big picture with the team of the 60’s decade at all the hall of famers butkus,bell,unitas,alworth etc. Johnny and I think one other is the only ones not in PRO FOOTBALL HALL OF FAME. I sent that picture to ange who runs that site it was a gift to me from Johnny and wanted all to see it its impressive and should be shown to the selctors and ask them whats wrong with the picture and why has he not been enshrined after all its recognized by the pro footballl hall of fame !!! And to answer your question Johnny would just laugh at whoever you said your favorite team is and wouldnt hold it against you might would tell you a story about beating your team though lol.Johnny and Emmitt have talked and is proud for Emmitt. Im sure he does wonder why he was chosen ahead of him but has never said. He has said that with Emmitt getting in he believes it cuts his chances way down. His main purpose in wanting in is not for personal gratification although im sure he would be overwhelmed but he owns and operates a boys home for troubled young boys. To be A member of the Pro Football Hall Of Fame would do so much for his boys home.The recognition and support etc would grow dramatically.And this in the big picture is what he hopes for.Please everyone help support this wonderful mans cause !!
Troy, you sure have lots of good content in your last reply. If it’s ok I’d like to put your words into letter form and submit to a person of note at the NFL Hall of Fame and maybe a Sports Writer or two who are on the Senior Committee? I will credit you as writing the letter to me about your Uncle and let you preview before I send off.
Also, what do you think is the best way for the public to show support for Johnny?
Are you talking about the AFL HOF site I sent to you in my previous reply? That site is a lot of fun and has the Player’s cards on it. It references Johnny’s Boy’s Home too.
Yes thats the site Im talking about just scroll down on the man page you will see the colorful photo of the team of the sixties. That photo was taken just before a live tv broadcast of them. Look how they were all joking around its a great pic. Yes You may submit anything I have posted just one thing Johnny is my Cousin not my Uncle just make sure you have that correct lol. His Dad and my papaw were brothers. Johnnys dad is a legendary Tennis Coach at LSU He has been dead now since back in the early 80’s. Yhey named the Tennis Stadium at LSU after him W.T. “DUB” Robinson stadium pretty cool huh!! The best way for public support wow I truly dont know other than have people write letters to committee members etc. People could also send support letters to Johnny personally at his Boys home. I want to actually create a website somehow dedicated to helping him get elected where people could write their names as signatures to be shown or given to the committee as a petion of sorts. I dont know what else I can do except make people such as you more aware of his accomplishments. if you have any suggestions feel free to tell me im game lol!! I feel helping Johnny is something I have to do. He is and has meant alot to me and my family and to so many young troubled boys who have now been led to a stable and fullfilling life. He has done so much for so many people and the honor he has brought to our family name Its time people do something good for him before his wonderful life is gone. Any kind of thoughts id truly truly appreciate and will be passed along to Johnny. When I get a chance maybe tonight (im actually grilling supper lol and am writing this while the grill gets going ) ill email you and I can give you the address to his Boys home if you would like to write to him personally. I have a good photo of him holding the football high in the air after his interception in superbowl IV that I can get him to sign for you and send to you. I have many photos but thats one that just comes to mind right off. I also have one in sb IV when he recovered a fumble sitting on the ground with his hand held up finger in air saying they were #1 thats a good one to and is on the cover of the book Championship the Nfl title games plus SuperBowl by Jerry Izenberg. I have a facebook under Troy Don Robinson go check it out look at some of the pics I have posted on their of Johnny from his playing days.
The Canton game is just around the corner. Many of the legends of the NFL past will gather to talk about great players and great times. One player that has been on the senior’s list since 1993 is Dick Stanfel. He was the sole senior nominee in 1993 and failed to be voted into the hall. He is the topic of much conversation particularly among players of his era. Dick played on 2 outstanding Detroit Lions Championship teams ’52 and ’53. They lost to Cleveland in ’54. In 1953, Dick played on a team that featured five HOF members -Doak Walker, Joe Schmidt, Yale Lary, Jack Christiansen, and Lou Creekmur. That year, he was named MVP of the Detroit Lions. The only offensive lineman, to ever be given an MVP award. Dick went on to be All-Pro 5 times and elected to the Pro Bowl 5 times as well.
The biggest “knock” on his career is that he didn’t play enough years (8). He retired as an All-Pro lineman in 1958 and probably had another 3-4 years of playing left in the tank. Instead, an opportunity to coach came along. In those days, playing did not pay much more than coaching, so he opted to start a coaching career. That career lasted almost 40 years with over 30 of them in the NFL mostly as a distinguished o-line coach.
I’m sure if Dick could ‘do it over’, he would have chosen to play enough years to make him a lock for the HOF. I think the way you look at a player of Dick Stanfel’s credentials is to evaluate it based on productivity as opposed to longevity because of the era.
8 years- 5 All Pro, 5 Pro Bowls, 1 MVP as a lineman.
Go to Canton or a card show and ask anyone who played with/against him. His peers think he is deserving as well. Dick Stanfel is deserving of a renomination to the HOF as a senior member.
I’m really frustrated with the HOF Voters. The Senior Committee takes great care in making their selection and than the full Committee throws the nominee out the window so to speak. And to make it worse, the Seniors only get one or two selections. As far behind as they are in regognizing great Senior players the public needs to make a push for more selections. IMO the Senior players should have their own HOF ceremony the night before the game.
I totally agree with Tony P. Why not elect 4-5 seniors each year? Have their ceremony on Saturday evening, the full committee electees on Sunday evening, and the HOF game on Monday night. This would allow the seniors committe to select worthy candidates and then be done. They’re in! No need for them to sweat out another voting in February.
Imagine how great this would be (say 5 seniors got in each year). You could start catching up on the players from the 1950’s and 1960’s, something like this:
2010 – G Dick Stanfel, DT Roger Brown, S Johnny Robinson, FB Rick Casares and CB Erich Barnes.
2011 – C Mick Tingelhoff, E Billy Wilson, LB Maxie Baughn, S Jim Patton, E/K Gino Capelletti.
2012 – T Jim Tyrer, E Pete Retzlaff, LB Tommy Nobis, S Goose Gonsoulin, DB Ed Meador
I like the idea. That said, there might be a very few 1950’s still deserving of the HOF but the 50’s have been treated more than fairly. The 70’s and 80’s are way behind!!
M Goss im so glad to see others like you are in favor seeing more seniors get in. Only letting two in a year and that is not mandatory they could just selct one or none in any given year which is just wrong. The are way behind times in the selection and ceromony. I love the idea of at least 5 seniors getting in every year to catch up for the most part. The Saturday evening induction is a superb idea whith modern candidates following on sunday and the game either that night or on monday as you suggested. This needs to be brought up to the media the public and have this pushed through. Im in lets get it done !!!
would u guys like to see my nominees list
Chuck Howley (Super Bowl MVP too) and Cliff Harris (all decade, 1st team…anderson was 2nd team)
Sure R. Ewing. Bring it on!! What’s you’re nominee list for? Are you cutting it down to one team of most deserving players not in the HOF? That’s tough but I started an All-Star Team on another thread. Maybe you could add to “Football Hall Of Fame Worthy”?
beep,
Our Final list that we sent to the HOF is in the middle of the pack of these comments and includes Chuck Howley and LeRoy Jordan. No All-Decade player were put on the list so that’s why Cliff Harris is off.
IMO Jake Scott was better than Harris. Not surprisingly I’m a lifelong Dolphin Fan :) Are you referring to Dick Anderson? They went with Anderson (Mr. Nice) over Scott (tough SOB) for All-Decade. Anderson did make Defensive POY during one magical year.
The Safety position has been downgraded greatly by the Voters.Only one has made the HOF from the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s. I’ll be happy if Johhny Robinson, Jake Scott and Donnie Shell make it to end the 60’s and 70’s. And than they have to work on the 80’s and 90’s.
In case you’re not familiar with S- Jake Scott. He was voted the best #13 in Redskins history even though he only played for them for 3 years. I hope you like this story :)
#13 Jake Scott
He was more of a Miami Dolphin than a Redskin career-wise. I will grant you that. In fact, as a Dolphin he was the Super Bowl MVP of Super Bowl VII, a 14-7 victory over the Redskins. He had two picks in that game. The following year he factored in the Dolphins’ second straight Super Bowl victory. If you recall, that defense was pretty stingy. And that 1972 team was of course the only undefeated team ever (suck it Patriots.)
But Jake Scott basically divorced himself from the Dolphins. Him and Don Shula had some terse exchanges. The story goes coach Don Shula wanted players to attend a banquet after the 1975 season. Scott informed Shula he would not be there. They fined him and he requested a trade. He refused painkillers in a preseason game later that summer and was shipped to Washington the next day.
He was a tough guy. As a rookie for the Dolphins, he was not asked to sing his college fight song…because nobody messed with him. He was famous for playing through injury. He broke his wrist in Super Bowl VI (if you’re keeping track, he played in three straight Super Bowls.) He played with a broken hand and wrist, and even returned punts in that game. In his rookie season, he played the last 11 games with a separated shoulder.
He came to the Skins and paired with Ken Houston for three seasons. We have gone here before already in this series with another former Dolphin, Reggie Roby, but it bears revisiting. A great player comes to town and then…lives up to expectations. He played in every game for the three seasons he was in D.C. Actually, he started in every one of those games. They didn’t keep tackle stats at that point, but he was no slouch in bringing down opponents. He had an uncanny ability to be in position for turnovers it seems–he had 5 fumble recoveries in 1976, leading the league. In 1978, he led the NFL in interceptions, with seven. Not exactly Adam Archuleta folks.
It is rumored that he drank 43 beers in one sitting, and got more girls than Joe Namath. All of his trophies and plaques gathered over his career full of accolades collect dust at his mother’s house–an indication that they mean very little to him. He lives in a remote area of Hawaii most of the year and sits in the same barstool every day at 5 PM (according to the article I pulled that from, it is the third barstool in.)
I was a little concerned about #13. I did not know 95% of this stuff about Jake Scott before scouring the internet during the Cavs-Magic Game 5. I am pretty confident that if Jake Scott played for the Magic, Lebron would be in a hospital. Seriously, all those Chuck Norris rules could easily have been written about Jake Scott.
I could lie and say I tried to contact Jake Scott for an interview. I could lie and say I didn’t try because I am 100% certain he can only be found by somebody he wants to be found by. The truth is that in my heart of hearts, I think that if I was successful in reaching one of the few phones on his island and he found out it was me asking for him, he would track me down and kill me. (By “me”, I mean Kevin, since I would leave his name and address on the message.)
If that doesn’t get you on this list, what does?
This is a list of most deserving senior nominees in my opinion
Atlanta- Tommy Nobis (LB) Claude Humphrey(DE)
Dallas Cowboys- Lee Roy Jordan (LB) Chuck Howley(LB)
Denver Broncos-Rich “Tombstone” Jackson(DE), Lionel Taylor(WR) Jim Turner(K)
Green Bay- Jerry Kramer(G)
Kansas City Curley Culp(DT) Otis Taylor (WR) Johnny Robinson(S)
San Diego Chargers- John Hadl(QB)
St. Louis Cardinals- Jim Bakken(K) Ernie McMillian(OT)
Washington-Chris Hanburger(LB)
Coaches
1. Jim Hanifan
2. Buddy Parker
3. Clark Shaughnessy
4. Jim Lee Howell
Tony I love the Story on Jake Scott as you know I can relate to that and I would give my vote to Jake right now if I could but its gonna take guys like you and me to help get these deserving guys inducted. we have got to spread the word tothose less educated fans and get them to write and email all the folks involved in this process. It makes me sick to my stomach that they just cant get it right and allow more seniors in and elect the ones that are the most deserving right now and not years later! They are to old and need to enjoy there accomplishment while they are alive!
I am partially biased to Winston Hill. My Grandson attended Joe Namath’s Football Camp at Nichols College a number of times. Winston took an interest in a young tall strong youngster who was having difficult time learning a 3 point stance. Several times he worked with him after the session was offically over. After that summer he had one of the best stance in his youth football league. He was singled out many times to demonstrate the stance and his balance was tested each time. He played football up to his freshman year in High School. It was unfortunate that his High School coaches didn’t see his potential as every child develops at different times. He switch to soccer and became the fastest player in his team both Jr and Sr years. His best sport was swimming where he holds the school record in 50 free. Still loves football. Thank you Winston for giving that love to the kids.
Off the top of my head, the senior nominees that would be good choices are Otis Taylor, Chuck Howley, Jerry Kramer, Jim Patton, Johnny Robinson and Harvey Martin.
I did a very comprehensive study not too long back of what were the NFL’s best WR’s from the era around 1965-72. These included Bob Hayes, Gary Garrison, Don Maynard, Charley Taylor, Paul Warfield, Otis Taylor, Gary Collins, Roy Jefferson, Jack Snow, Dave Parks, Lance Alworth, Jimmy Orr, Fred Biletnikoff, Boyd Dowler, Homer Jones and Carroll Dale.
After all the research and stats that i used to come up with what i thought was a strong formula to rank these receivers, it came out to show that the best scores were from Hayes, Maynard and Alworth, followed by the next best scores below them were Charley Taylor, Warfield, Biletnikoff and Otis Taylor. The rest of the receivers on the list all scored much worse except for Garrison and Parks, who were still pretty far off from the elite group already mentioned.
Garrison and Parks did score better though than i would’ve thought.
Otis Taylor had the fourth best score on the list behind Hayes, Maynard and Alworth, but he scores higher than Warfield, Charley Taylor and Biletnikoff…all HOF’s.
This study proved to me that obviously Bob Hayes was a much deserving senior nominee last year and his inclusion into the HOF recently was well deserved. I also feel Otis Taylor should now be inducted too, with how high he scored on my list.
Jim Patton was a mainstay on those great NYG teams of the late 50’s and early 60’s that played in the NFL Title Game five times from 1958-63. Starting in 1958 through 1962, Patton was 1st team all-pro and went to the pro-bowl every year, a consensus 1st team all-pro selection routinely in that span.
Harvey Martin was one of the greatest skill pass rushers of all time. He lead the cowboys seven times in sacks in his career from 1973-83, including 23 sacks in 1977 in just a 14 game season(his 23rd sack came in the 13th game) that culminated in a DPOY award and co-MVP of the SB along with Randy White. He had 14 more sacks in 1978 but didn’t lead the cowboys in sacks with White getting 16 that season. Martin is also the all-time sacks leader for the cowboys.
What i find so impressive about Martin is he played his career in the ‘Flex’ defense with about 1/4 of his snaps per game coming in the four-point stance(goal-line stance) where he’s lined up on all fours right over the nose of the left tackle, making it almost impossible to get any kind of formidable pass-rush from that position. Yet, he still did all that damage to opposing QB’s in his career, much less being a main-stay on the ‘Doomsday’ defense and all the success those cowboy teams he played on had.
Howley, Robinson and Kramer are really strong candidates to me without much comment.
i recently read a senior committee voter comment that there hasn’t been enough pure Safteys inducted into the HOF over the last 30 years or so and considering this is the 50th anniversary of the AFL, that might be a clue to the rest of us they might be looking at Johnny Robinson as a candidate this yr.
It should be interesting who they choose by the deadline next week.
The list at the top of senior nominees was a good one. Here’s my thouhgts on the candidates(I haven’t already mentioned) i thought were the strongest:
Al Wistert…his main weakness is not being on the Eagles ROH, though he did have his number retired in the 1950’s
Dick Stanfel…he seems like a HOF to me, but the committee voted him down once before as a senior nominee
Jim Tyrer…he may be the biggest snub of all on the field, but the trouble he had off the field has probably kept him out
Billy Howton…he at one time was the NFL all-time leader in receptions and receiving yards, passing Don Hutson to do so
Pete Retzlaff…i think he has a very strong case
Drew Pearson…the definition of a clutch receiver
LC Greenwood…this in an interesting case because on the surface, his chances are good(not great); However, one thing that might be holding him back(fair or not), is he’s the player that’s recognized for retiring Roger Staubach after putting a violent hit on him in a regular season game in pitt; Staubach left the game with a concussion and had to retire after the season with too many concussions….the last one Staubach suffered was that day vs the steelers
Chris Hanburger…he seems to have a very strong case
Maxie Baughan….ditto above with Hanburger
Randy Gradishar…another strong case for a LB; the best player and QB of the ‘Orange Crush’ defense
Jack Butler…his only real weakness is playing for a lot of bad steeler teams
Lemar Parrish…i think he’s definately HOF material but may have gotten lost in the same division with those great steeler teams of the 70’s; he’s one of the biggest over-sights by the HOF voters
the rest not mentioned were very good, but maybe not quite Hall of Fame material.
gameboard,
What about Robert Brazile? I saw him play on TV 14 games a year and he was the heart of the Oilers defense that was very good and for a couple years the main opponent of the Steelers in the AFC. We had Earl Campbell and not much else on offense except a noodle armed QB named Ken Stabler. Than we also had the forgettable Gifford Nielson. LOL!!
I’m glad you mentioned WR Roy Jefferson. Where did he fit in your analysis? He caught a lot of passes and than it seemed, like Warfield, he gave up a lot of catches to play for ball control teams with the aging Colts and Larry Brown led Redskins. Did you read my right up of support for Jefferson on this thread? I tried to do justice for some of the overlooked players.
I agree with your assessment of Tyrer. I thought football voters looked past the character stuff. If a guy belongs than he should be in. I think the problems comes when the younger writers start to scrutinize the judgement of the Senior Commitee and their consultants. I wasn;t a fan of Claude Humphrey but I wouldn’t of over turned their judgement. It’s going to take forever to get these guys in. Did you see my statistical disparity on the decades when compared to the 1950’s, especially on Offense? It’s on the Senior HOF thread. Hard to believe there were so many great players from the 50’s and no other decade. Maybe the voters have just gotten tougher and the HOF doesn’t view as behind??
If you have time play our HOF game thread for fun. It’s an attempt to make a team filling in the projected need by position and decade. The person who gets voted as having the best looking team (most player likely to go to Canton) wins a ZoneBlitz T-Shirt and a letter showing their winning team will be sent to the Senior Committee for review. Check it out !! :) fun, fun before the season gets going.
Tony P…
Brazile seems pretty close, but what may be holding him back is actually John McClain.
McClain is the Houston rep on the HOF voting board, a long-time much respected senior committee member too. He covered the oilers in the 70’s and has many times said he does not believe that Brazile was a HOF player. Obvioulsy, that goes a long way with the other voters when another voter makes that kind of claim about his ‘home-town’ player.
Roy Jefferson was a fine receiver who i believe comes up a little short, though the senior committee and then full committee will eventually have the last say on that.
The project i did on the receivers was fun but not anything concrete either. I took that era of around 1965-72 and tried to find the best ones and then rank those from their production in around that time-frame. It wasn’t a ranking based on their full careers.
Hayes, Alworth and Maynard scored absolutely off the charts with the next batch of lesser scores all being HOF’s except for Otis Taylor, who actually had the next highest score behind Hayes, Alworth and Maynard.
I see now why Hayes got in and wonder what took so long. The only thing i can figure is the off the field stuff and durability(hamstring injuries) issues at the tail end of his career which lowed his career totals. Again, he should’ve been in a long time ago.
Otis Taylor now gets my support too considering how high he scored and he has a pretty strong HOF caliber resume anyway.
I’m not sure Tyrer should be in considering the tragedy around his death, but that’s all should hold him back. I never was on board with Humphrey because he really wasn’t an all-time player who had to be put in the HOF, much less all the baggage that came with his nomination(retirement fiasco and the infamous SB incident vs the raiders).
I can see why the board voted him down and unfortunately that wasted a nomination of another more qualified player from the senior pool.
Brazile was a tackling beast and a sure fire HOFer IMO. I’ll write McLain and set him straight. LOL!! If that’s his stance he won’t ever win Man of the Year in Houston. Maybe Brazile dissed him or something. That’s why I hate the Writers having so much power. They’re keeping my man Bert Blyleven out of Cooperstown too.
Other than Tyrer commiting suicide is there anything to the story? Wasn’t he dealing with failed business ventures?
I agree 100% with your opinion of Jefferson. I was just promoting him because a co-worker went to HS with him. :) I’m not sure I always felt this way but now Otis Taylor gets my full support.
Safeties and Defensive Tackles have been snubbed the worst since 1970. DE’s are the sexy picks because of the sacks. And I think the voters somehow view a Safety as an inferior athelete because you always hear if a CB isn’t fast enough they can move to safety. There’s more than just a 40 time.
What’s your opinion on Bill Bergy 2/5? Like Tommy Nobis he played in some obscurity with Philly and Atlanta respectfully for most of their careers. That said both had reputations as fierce hitters and I would support them for the HOF.
One wish is that I was old enough to see more of Paul Warfield. He was unbelievably graceful!! IMO him and Griese got a lot of style points with the HOF voters.
Drew Pearson is a hell yes right along with Cliff Branch and the two Harolds. What the hell are the voters doing? I like many would not of selected Lynn Swann. The same goes for Fred Dean. I guess like Miami, the 49ers needed one Defensive player in the HOF. What about the other 3 Niner SB winners. Opps, I forgot Lott. Dean was very good but the voters passed on better players. I actually forgot about Dean. I wonder why his name even came up? Did the Redskins ever have a HOF defensive player on their 4 SB team? Opps, Darrell Green. Wow, that’s one player again. What ever happened to Defense winning championships but the voters don’t like them in the HOF.
Tony P…
If I’m not mistaken, Tyrer commited a murder-suicide by first killing his wife then killing himself over like you said, failed business ventures. What an awful shame!!
Maybe McClain has changed his mind on Brazile recently…who knows?? I know surfing the web and stuff in the past, he has been anti-Brazile for the most part. But again, maybe he’s changed his mind on the issue.
I think Bergy and Nobis are behind the nominees at LB i’ve already mentioned. IMO, Nobis is more electable than Bergy, though again, i like the afore-mentioned LB’s better than them.
Dean was a HOF caliber skill pass-rusher without the over-whelming resume. He had a relatively short career and two lengthy holdouts with the chargers and 49ers over contract disputes. The 49ers never win the SB in 1981 without him when he was DPOY that season.
Off the top of my head, I would rank Dean in the top 15 of all-time pass-rushers with his skill level as a pure rusher though maybe his over-all numbers don’t show it. I had no problem with him making it, considering it was his 18th year of eligibility. However, a very crafty and clever case had to be made for him and obviously was.
I just found out that the senior committee is meeting on Tuesday to discuss and pick the two senior nominees. So it looks like a decision is coming soon.
I’ll go ahead and make my prediction for the two nominees that will be chosen.
I’m going to pick Johnny Robinson and Chuck Howley.
It makes too much sense for them to pick players that should get into the HOF. Lol!!
I like your picks. I really hope it’s Johnny. But they went teammate two years ago which befuddled me and they went WR in Hayes last year. If not for Hayes I’d say Otis Taylor this year.
Robinson is the smart AFL pick and I’d go with a lock to get two in ………..hmmmm lets go Offense in a place they are way behind which is 70’s WR. Except they went Swann and Stallworth recently. One was a bad pick IMO. They’re also way behind at 70’s S and DT. How about Robinson.. could they go Jack Kemp since he just died? Not a HOFer? They sure as hell better not go S with Dick LeBeau and no AFL player!! That would be a real poke in the eye on the AFL 50th. Or could they go two AFL players into the HOF? That would be classy!
They will go Johnny Robinson and Harold Carmicheal who are safe- both All Decade by their Leagues. I’d prefer Johnny and C-Mick Tinglehoff 5/6 though.
I don’t totally disagree with Dean getting into the Hall and he did have large impact of Super Bowl run. Except there was “The Catch”. :) And who stuffed the 4th down play in the SB? I do know what you mean about his importance.
They are way, way behind!!
You’re right about Tyrer. Funny that some sites just say he shot his wife. Maybe the guy could handle failure for the rirst time? Who knows. Really sad!!
Based on my research 1950’s and 60’s LB picks are probably done. I sure hope 60’s Safeties aren’t because leaving Robinson out would be an injustice IMO.
Breaking News……
The Senior Committee chose Dick Lebeau and Floyd Little as it’s two Senior nominees today.
Lebeau is an iffy choice for me and Little is a good but not great choice.
It’s too bad they didn’t use this chance to get another AFL player like Johnny Robinson in on what will be the 50th anniversary of the league this year.
Overall, i give the committee a C+ on their choices. I’m somewhat disappointed in their selections today.
As Tony P wrote on June 22, “He (Rick Casares) really is one of the very few left that I’ve felt is being overlooked for the HOF. Some say Floyd Little is next but he’s a decade later”. I am devastated with regard to my efforts over the past 4 years, especially writing letters to each member of the seniors committee. Just a note: If Little’s numbers in 14 game seasons (6323 rush yds, 3.9 avg, 43 td) are enough to be nominated then Casares will continue to be a sad man with his numbers (5797, 4.1, 49) from half 12 and half 14 game seasons.
Little was likely elected because of the the AFL 50th anniversary. I didn’t support him. It was others comments and his post season that got him on the list. The Denver community had been pressuring Voters for years.
Both Senior selections out right suck IMO based on so many better choices. I guess post season means very little. Jerry Kramer has been nominated 10 times and Johnny Robinson 6 times and can’t get a single amen from the Senior Bastards. Seems like these well deserving men could get one more chance now that so many years are passed. Instead they want to send lame ducks up for voting half the time many times wasting valuable picks.
You can read all of my frustration on the newer threads. Does Casares have a website to promote his nomination? If not I’ll work on one after I finish one on Johnny Robinson.
Casares numbers are actually very good for a FB considering they usually get less carries and to run up the middle with a 4.1 is equally good. Based on research up until Floyd Little , 4.1 was considered the cut off HOFers with the exception of John Riggins. It probably still is 4.1. Little was a unusual case because they wanted to nominate the best AFL RB but IMO even botched that. And Riggins had 116 TD’s which is a crazy number. The best FB stats of the last 20 years I believe belong to Mike Alstott. He’ll probably get in as a 3/6. I think their stats must be close which could help Casares. Only the total number of RB’s from the 60’s in the HOF may hurt?
I was the one who brought up Rick Casares stats about six monthes ago. I truly believe he is HOF worthy and should have been the nominee along with Dick Lebeau. Johnny Robinson would be a worthy canidate as well. I aslo wish that Eddie Meador would start getting the Grass roots consideration that LeBeau got this past season.
On a slightly unrelated note. I think we all know that Rice and Emmitt Smith are getting in this year, but wouldn’t it be nice to see a class of:
1. Jerry Rice
2. Emmitt Smith
3. John Randle
4. Lester Hayes or Donnie Shell
5. Dick LeBeau
I am very disappointed with the selections of Dick Lebeau and Floyd Little. By no means do I want to take away from two men that were good ball players in their time. The HOF is a place for GREAT players of their time. Dick Lebeau played for the Detroit Lions. During his time with them only managed to make the playoffs once and the Lions were just at or below .500 during his career. He was a good player on mostly below average teams. If the criteria is solely longevity(14 years) than he should be in but I have a hard time rationalizing only 3 pro bowl appearances and no All-Pro designations during his career. His highlighted statististics are his career interceptions which are tied for 7th with Dave Brown who also played 14 years and managed 2 All-Pros and 1 Pro-bowl and will be eligible as a senior in 5 yrs or so. Ahead of Lebeau in interceptions is Ken Riley. Riley also played 14 years and was named 4x as an All-Pro. If Lebeau gets in, Riley should be hopping mad that he was not in. He also returned 5 for TDS, two more than Lebeau. Lebeau has had an outstanding coaching career but this has zero bearing on him being inducted as a player.
As for Floyd Little. Again, a good player but not GREAT. He probably has a better case than Lebeau for induction but still behind others more deserving but it will be lost on the mere fact that Dick Lebeau’s name is relevant because of the success of the Steelers in recent years.
The point I am making is that in IMO there are many others that should have been nominated before these two. Thats just the way I see it.
I’m still not REALLY sold on Lebeau as a true HOF just as a player, but I’m guessing the momentum he has as the Pitt assistant coach(though it’s not suppose to be a part of his nomination) will be enough to get him through with the voters. I still don’t see the rush on his nomination this year with him still a coach. It would’ve been better for him to retire and then bring him up where coaching/playing can honestly be evaluated.
Floyd Little just doesn’t seem to stack up as a HOF’er to me, despite his great durability, versatility and workload on bad teams. He seems a lot more in Denver’s hearts than Canton’s hearts.
My prediction for next years class would be:
Emmitt Smith, Jerry Rice, John Randle, a Hog(Grimm or Jacoby), Shannon Sharpe and Lebeau.
This is what I think the HOF Election list will look like:
RB-Emmitt Smith, WR-Jerry Rice, CB-Aeneas Williams, DT-Cortez Kennedy, TE-Shannon Sharpe and HB-Floyd Little (only because he represents the AFL on its 50th Anniv.).
Actually CB-Aeneas Williams will likely get in on the second try so that position is open still.
Not a Senior yet, but has there ever been a more significant player for his team with less impressive numbers than the 49ers speedy OLB Keena Turner ?
I can think od another 49er (also a Cowboy) that does not have the numbers but certaintly the name recognition….Ken Norton Jr. He will never make the HOF but was one of the most valuable LB’s of his time. Tedy Bruschi is a Ken Norton Clone.
My guess at 2010 enshrinees would be: Rice, E Smith, Grimm, Dent, Sharpe, Lebeau. But would not surprise me (and each election brings surprises of those elected and those not) to see Randle and Carter in the mix (replacing Grimm, Dent or Sharpe). All the players just mentioned deserve election and at some point all we get in, just a matter of the numbers and of time.
The problem with the Senior Nominees is that none of the potential Senior candidates are “slam dunk” enshrines or they would have been elected during the 25 years of their regular candidacy. You can easily make pro and con cases for all of them (for example the long list of players that starts this discussion). There really is no major difference or justification of selecting one over another. Add the factor that the most of the 44 voters have covered the NFL for only a few decades, and have limited understanding of the long history of the league, means that getting any Senior candidate elected is a challenge. Stats, including team success, playoffs, pro bowls/all pro teams, unfortunately carry too much weight, but are easily understood by the voters.
No “slam dunks” :)
Are you sure there aren’t slam dunks and the Voters and you don’t realize it? Lol!! Are you old enough to of watched most of the Senior players?
I tend to agree with your point regarding the Voters age. If a LB from today is a 4-time All-Pro and goes to 9 Pro Bowls would you think he’s a slam dunk? Could it be possible that at some positions there’s no such think as a slam dunk?
I think we should generally drop the idea of slam dunks. They are few and far between. :)
“Are you old enough to of watched most of the Senior players?”
That is one point I am making very few of us (and almost all of the voters) have seen most of the potential Senior Candidates play. So it is very hard to evaluate them, and perhaps more importantly determine which are the best candidates for election by the full 44 member committee.
I am sure that if any of the Senior candidates were “slam dunks” they would have been voted in during their 25 years on the ballot as modern candidates. I think it is very likely that a 4 time All Pro/ 9 Pro Bowl player has a very good chance of being elected, perhaps not at the level of a “slam dunk”. But using that standard (not that I agree with it entirely), very few of the possible Senior Candidates can claim that status.
Another note on Rick Casares….
When he retired in 1966, Casares was 6th all-time in rushing yards with the only players ahead of him all in the HOF now; these being Jim Brown, Joe Perry, Jim Taylor, John Henry Johnson and Steve Van Buren.
I have been a football fan for over 30 years, and have a pretty good understanding of the history of the pro game (in many cases I suspect greater than some of the 44 voters), and I had never heard of Casares. So you be sure that the majority, if not all, the 44 voters will also know nothing of him, thus his chances of ever getting elected are slim to none.
Sorry, but there is a long list of more well known players with better careers on the list of potential senior candidates. If the last few years of HOF elections show anything it is that the 44 voters are very selective on electing senior candidates. No way that the senior candidate committee is going to put forth a relatively unknown senior candidate, as it is I have serious doubts that Floyd Little will even get elected.
Post Boy- Had you heard a lot about Benny Friedman or Fritz Pollard before they went in a few years ago? How about more recent guys like Gene Hickerson or Lou Creekmur. Believe the guys voting know exactly who Rick Caseras is. They are just debating wheather or not his career was Hall worthy. Like they did with Emmitt Thomas, Bob Brown, Charlie Sanders and others who the voters originally missed and eventually put in.
Post Boy,
I agree with Billy W. It is not necessarily a popularity contest. Each player, whether you have heard of them or not, must be evaluated on their merits NOT on name recognition. Dick Lebeau’s name is very recognized today for his COACHING. This should have no bearing on his induction as a player. Great player’s stats are undeniable what should carry HOF inductees.
Yes I was familar with the players recently elected as senior candidate. Remember it only takes 5 or the 9 member Seniors selection committee to get a player as a Senior Candidate, but to get elected it takes 80% of the 44 voters (36 votes), it is very hard to elected as a Senior candidate, just look at how many Seniors have not been elected in recent years. Rick Caseras would never gather enough support from the full 44 voters. It should not be based on name recognition, but the simple truth is that the decision by majority of 44 voters is based on that since few do the actual research and none of seen these players on the field.
sorry “5 of the 9 member Seniors selection committee”
Rick Caseras can only be voted in by the senior committee. His eligibility has long since passed for the regular committee. Rick Caseras was in the era he played in, a better player than Floyd Little was in the era he played in. IMO! I do think FB’s of a bygone era will be looked at differently at some point. Just like DB’s are now.
You are incorrect, the senior committee nominates two candidates, those candidates (and the 15 modern candidates) are ALL voted on for election by all 44 members of the selection committee. My previous comments stand, election of the senior candidates is made very difficult by the requirement of 80% yes votes from the 44 committee voters, many of whom have limited understanding of the history of the game and would not even know of Caseras.
IF, and that is a big if, he is ever nominated by the senior committee (over the nomination of many more well known and credible senior candidates) his chances at election are very very slim.
Tony:
As a life-long Chiefs fan (complete with the broken 8-year old heart and memory of the stone cold silence from the other 55,000 who watched a certain X-mas day 1971) I really appreciate the comments made about so many of those incredible Chiefs players. That team was special.
But here’s what I remember most about Johnny outside the thrills he gave us on the field. He lived up the street from us on 106th Street just off Bridlespur Drive. I remember playing football in his yard with his kids and others from the neighborhood. The Robinson’s were always gracious. Johnny was just a regular guy.
They all were back then. Lenny lived across the street from a buddy a mile or so away. They remember Lenny coming home from practice and throwing passes to them and then telling them to keep the ball. My brother mowed Jan’s yard and was king of his junior high the day after Jan pulled up in his Camero and called out, “Ricky, you want a ride home?”
What a beautiful time. My dad used to say to us when we were at old Municipal Stadium and then Arrowhead, “Fellas, we are very fortunate to see these players in person. They may be the best players at their positions we will ever see and some of the best that ever played.” That team was truly remarkable. We all know what the Chiefs would have done in that SB against Dallas. It would not have been close. Oh well.
Please pass regards on to Johnny from a grateful fan and former neighbor. Reading this stream has been the best trip down memory lane I’ve had in while and I compliment all of you on the intelligence and respectful nature of your comments.
Jeff,
No doubt with the number of Texans/Chiefs player’s post season alcolades, HOF members, quality players still awaiting HOF nominations and because of their championships that they are reknown throughout the history of the game. I think when all is said and done there will be more Chiefs in the HOF (if not already) than any other organization from the 1960’s. Pretty good for a team from an inferior league. Lol!!
I love having a place to reminice about old football times. The late 60’s and early/ mid 70’s was a nice time to grow up. Football had a special freshness to it with the increased passing, TV exposure, and merger. There were some great announcers also. Every aspect wasn’t overly analyzed like today. IMO today’s game borders on too fast and the players are too big causing greater hits and many injuries which isn’t necessarily a better product for the viewer. There are good things like modern medicine and better equipment so it may even out I suppose. I tend to enjoy the college game more than the Pros.
Postboy, I didn’t fully understand what you were saying about Rick Caseras’ nomination. The point I was trying to make is that once he gets the senior nomination, the voters know who he is… the difficult part is getting the nomination.
Billy W you stated “Rick Caseras can only be voted in by the senior Committee.” which is not correct, Senior candidates are nominated as finalists by the Senior Committee. The Senior Candidates are voted into the HOF by the full 44 member committee.
Getting the Senior nomination does not mean that all the 44 voters know who he is, that takes the effort of the writer selected to make his case to the full committee. Many of the 44 voters have no idea who most of the pre 1980 players are until presented to them. Yes it is difficult to get the nomination, but look at the recent history to see how many senior nominees are not voted in by the full 44 member committee.
Here are some top senior all-time players that could someday make the Hall-of-Fame :
Offense :
Walt Sweeney
Dick Stanfel
Winston Hill
George Kunz
Jeff Van Note
Mick Tinglehoff
John Niland
Bob Kuechenberg
Mike Kenn
jimmy Patton
Del Shofner
Jerry Kramer
Dick Schafrath
Harold Jackson
Lionel Taylor
Mike Stratton
Ken Anderson
Drew Pearson
Ed White
Ottis Anderson
Ken Stabler
Bob Vogel
Ernie McMillan
Riley Odoms
John Hadl
Russ Washington
Harold Carmichael
Dennis Harrah
John Brodie
Doug Wilkerson
Raymond Chester
Defense :
Claude Humphrey
Chris Hanburger
Randy Gradishar
Johnny Robinson
Dave Grayson
Robert Brazile
L.C. Greenwood
Donnie Shell
Lemar Parrish
Les Richter
Maxie Baughan
Goose Gonsoulin
Jerry Mays
George Saimes
Bill Bergey
Louis Wright
Cliff Harris
Mike Curtis
Joe Fortunato
Abe Woodson
Ken Riley
Richie Petitbon
Andy Russell
Ed Too Tall Jones
Jim Marshall
Jack Tatum
Brad Van Pelt
Pat Fischer
Tommy Nobis
Bill Thompson
Dick LeBeau
Harvey Martin
Ray Guy
Jerrell Wilson
….. There are other old-time players almost or just as deserving as this bunch as well that played in the 70’s and earlier . Jim Tyrer would be on the list but had personal problems, enough not to be in the HOF .
The Pro Football Hall of Fame’s website says that only what a player does on the field counts when considering a player for membership. In theory, Jim Tyrer’s murder/suicide shouldn’t be taken into account here.
Craig, a good list by and large — I don’t agree in total with everyone it, but with that long a list and so many omissions, that’s to be expected. And a few folks on your list aren’t Senior eligible yet but will likely be soon enough, most notably Ken Anderson. Plus Jimmy Patton should be mentioned on the defensive side of things.
There are a handful of Seniors who date from pre-1950 who I think are eminently HoF worthy to varying degrees and deserve mention, including Lavvie Dilweg, Verne Lewellen, Duke Slater, Al Wistert, and Riley Matheson. Additional Senior-eligible players from the ’50s and later who definitely deserve some measure of consideration include Billy Howton, Billy Wilson, Mac Speedie, Bobby Dillon, Gene Brito, Robert Brazile, Bobby Boyd, Cornell Green, Eddie Meador, Ed Budde, Isiah Robertson, and Larry Grantham.
Nice list Craig. I like that you said “could” be in the HOF.
a
I’ll work off your list and say these players “will” be in the HOF.
On Offense: Bob Kuechenberg, Russ Washington, Ken Anderson, Drew Pearson and
Harold Carmichael.
On Defense: Dick LeBeau, Randy Gradishar, Johnny Robinson, Lemar Parrish, Louis Wright, Harvey Martin, Tommy Nobis and Ray Guy.
Jerry Norton: DB/P/HB-1/5. 35 Int’s. Led the NFL in punting yards 2 times. Had 4 Int’s in a game(NFL record).
i thought miami’s dick anderson had 4 in a game i watched. maybe vs, cinncy?memory is faded. i know he had a huge game!
Tony P, the record is tied
Jerry Kramer is long past due for entering the HOF! When the 1st 50 yrs. all NFL team was announced, Jerry is the only offensive player NOT to be put in Canton! It’s high time Jerry, along with Eagles’ OL Al Wissert, belong as members of the Hall of Fame!
I agree with you packerbackerbill.Mac Speedie should get considered. He was a member of the 1940’s All Decade Team. He was the league leader in receptions 4 times and receiving yards 2 times. He was a 2 time Pro Bowler and was First Team All Pro 3 Times and was named to a total of 6 All Pro Teams( First or Second Team). Lionel Taylor deserves it as well, but he played his whole career in the AFL(expect his rookie season, but he didn’t catch 1 pass that season). He led the AFL in receptions 5 times. He was the first player in NFL/AFL/AAFC history to catch 100 balls in 1 season(14 games). He was named to 3 Pro Bowls and was named to 4 First Team All Pros(5 in total). Here is a “wild-card” player for you: Bobby Joe Conrad. Check out his stats as a whole. He really wasn’t that bad of a player when it comes to stats. Just a thought.
Speaking of “wild card players” – what about Earl Morrall? I know he lost Super Bowl lll – but he also won Super Bowl V – by coming in and replacing Johnny Unitas in the second quarter. And that is what he was perhaps best at – fireman duties. He also replaced Griese for most of the perfect season (started 12 of the 17). It took the baseball hall of fame a long time to recognize the fireman/reliever role with Rollie Fingers, and when you consider Morrall’s career in total – his longevity (21 years), his skill (his career numbers are probably better that you think – 161 tds to 148 picks: almost 21,000 yards and a 71.4 rating; he also won awards as both NFL player of the year, and NFL comeback player of the year), his role in key NFL games and seasons, even his post NFL career (Morrall was also the quarterback coach at the University of Miami for Jim Kelly, Bernie Kosar and Vinnie Testerverde after leaving the NFL) – I think he’s been overlooked… what do you think?
I think we are just over a month away from the announcement of the two Senior nominees for the Class of 2011.
Just a thought – if Roger Brown (for example) gets consideration (and I’m not saying he shouldn’t) – why not Alex Karras?
In his column today Peter King suggests that the current buzz for the selection of seniors for the 2011 class includes “Chris Hanburger, Chuck Howley or Maxie Baughan (did you know Baughan was voted to the Pro Bowl eight more times than Ray Nitschke?) — and an offensive lineman … maybe Jerry Kramer or Dick Stanfel. I hear lots of sentiment for Hanburger.”
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/08/08/mmqb/5.html#ixzz0w7GutbDf
You can check out my youtube channel for some issues on this topic. My account is AlecBoy006.
Anyway, many are deserving. But the ones who deserve it most IMO are as follows:
#1 Chris Hanburger
#2 Johnny Robibnson
Those two deserve to be the two Senior Candidates and both would get elected if up to me.
Others who are also VERY deserving:
Walt Sweeney
Ed Budde
Jerry Kramer
Al Wistert
Jim Tyrer (A controversial situation, but you can’t have OJ in there and leave Tyrer out)
Maxie Baughan
Robert Brazile
Chuck Howley
Randy Gradishar
Roger Brown
Jim Marshall
Many others deserving too, but those are the one’s I think deserve it the most. I did a top 10 list of players not in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Cris Carter was #1, but #’s 2 and 3 were my two senior choices of Hanburger and Robinson, respectively. It is an outrage that all three are not in and I hope those two get selected as the two senior candidates, but the others in the list would be very worthy as well.
Last year’s announcement for the senior nominees was made on Aug 25th. We don’t have long to wait for the 2011 nominees.
My 1A – TEAM of HOF Players in waiting and waiting and waiting!!! LOL!
Offense
RG- Jerry Kramer
LG- Bob Kuechenberg
C – Mick Tinglehoff
RT- Russ Washington
LT – Mike Kenn
TE – Riley Odoms
QB – Kenny Stabler
FB – Chuck Muncie
RB – Chuck Foreman
RB- Ottis Anderson
WR – Cliff Branch
WR – Harold Carmichael
WR – Otis Taylor
WR – Drew Pearson
Defense
DE – Jim Marshall
DT – Roger Brown
NT – Curly Culp
DT – Alex Karras
DE – Harvery “Too Mean” Martin
ROLB -Robert Brazile
RILB – Chris Hansburger
MLB – Tommy Nobis
LILB – Randy Gradishar
LOLB – Chuck Howley
SS – Jake Scott
FS- Johnny Robinson
CB – Lester Hayes
CB – Lamar Parrish
How good would this Team stack up to the HOF guys?? :) You talk about some bruisers on both sides of the ball!!
Anyone care to create a Best of the Best HOF team to counter my “I Get No Respect” Team ?
Also I came across this guys list of “Hardest Tacklers” based on his research. See what you think? It’s good but I would make a few modifications. :)
Top 10 Hardest Hitters in NFL History – Published January 31, 2010 by Maggot
http://listverse.com/2010/01/31/top-10-hardest-hitters-in-nfl-history/#commentbox
My list would be:
1 Dick Butkis
2 “LT” Taylor
3 Dick “Night Train” Lane
4 Ray Nitschke
5 Randy “The Manster” White
6 Ronnie Lott
7 Reggie White
8 Jack Tatum
9 Jack Youngblood
10 Chuck Bednarik
Honorable Mention: A few offensive guys who could deliver the wood – Jim Brown, Walter Payton, Earl Campbell and Larry Csonka. Lots of punishing players who could argueably be on the list but that’s my list and I’m sticking to it. :)
Such other punishers are: Willie Lanier, Tommy Nobis, Jack Lambert, Ted Hendricks, Mike Curtis, Jack “Hacksaw ” Reynolds, Ray Lewis, Steve Atwater, Jake Scott, Alex Karras and many more. What’s with the name Jack and meaness? I don’t even know any Jack’s now. LOL!!
Great work on the “I Get No Respect” team!
With announcement of 2011 Senior nominees to occur any day now, I would guess that Chris Hanburger and Jerry Kramer would be selected, but given the past history of these decisions and the so few people in on the decision (9 members of the Selection Committee, thus needing only 5 people to vote for a player) any guess is a bit of a crap shoot, frankly any of those listed on the “I Get No Respect” team could be expected and deserving.
Just announced by the HOF the senior candidates for 2011 are Chris Hanburger and Les Richter.
Let the debates start!
Yes, let the debate begin–but let it begin here:
https://www.zoneblitz.com/2010/08/25/hanburger-richter-named-2011-senior-hof-candidates/
After last year’s selections, curious to hear what you have to say…
This coming from a Bears fan, I am extremely enthusiastic to see Hanburger get nominated and if he gets elected I will seek to go to his induction. Richter is deserving too. I wish Johnny Robinson was nominated this year, but there is always next year.