Over the past few years, there’s been a lot of discussion about the Pro Football Hall of Fame voting process being flawed. We’ve discussed it. People thinking their specific guy (Will Shields, Jerome Bettis, Bill Parcells, Cris Carter) deserves to be there have discussed it. Even people thinking the entire league are being blacklisted discuss it.
But what are some possible solutions to the problem? Here’s one that apparently shouldn’t be on the list – let the players vote.
For Eagles, Redskins and Vikings quarterback Donovan McNabb, during an appearance on a FoxSports.com show, said he would vote for himself for the Hall of Fame:
Mark Kriegel: “Would you vote for you for the Hall of Fame?”
McNabb: “Absolutely. One thing people don’t realize, I never played the game to make it to the Hall of Fame. I played the game because I love it. I played the game to win because I’m a competitor. When I step out on the field, I feel like I’m the best player on the field. Even these last two years, and people may look at it and say, ‘Oh, he’s done.’ I’m 34, 35 years old but I still played at the pinnacle, at the highest level of my career. I played there. I would vote myself for the Hall of Fame and I played with probably two or three Hall of Famers. When you sit and look at the numbers and that’s what it is when it comes to the Hall of Fame. My numbers are better than Jim Kelly, than Troy Aikman and a lot of guys in the Hall of Fame, but the one thing they have is a Super Bowl.”
I was shocked to find out that he’s actually pretty close on the Kelly/Aikman comparison – he had three fewer wins (98) than Kelly (101), and four more than Aikman (94). He was only three touchdowns behind Kelly, but significantly ahead of Aikman (237-234-165), but was also significantly lower than either on the interception side (117 for McNabb, 141 for Aikman, 175 for Kelly). He even threw for more yards than either of them (37,276 for McNabb, 35,467 for Kelly, 32,942 for Aikman) and had a better quarterback rating (85.6) than either (84.4 for Kelly, 81.6 for Aikman).
One area he did fall short, though, was completion percentage – 59 percent for McNabb, vs. 60.1 percent for Kelly and 61.5 percent for Aikman – and there seems to be an almost mythical line for more modern QBs at the 60 percent mark. Throw in the four consecutive Super Bowl appearances for Kelly, and the Super Bowl wins for Aikman, along with the perception (that I have at least) that McNabb racked up a lot of his yardage via dump passes to running backs and tight ends that turned them into bigger plays, and that’s a pretty big gap starting to form, in my mind.
A couple of other interesting quotes from McNabb:
“Well, Peyton never won the big game until he won the Super Bowl. Dan Marino never won the big game.”
First, that’s just brilliant on Manning [more on that in a second]. But on Marino, he also set virtually every important single season and career passing record there was to have – which is going to count for something.
[On what makes a Hall of Fame quarterback] “How many times has he led his team to the big game? The big game still is the NFC Championship Game, the game to lead you there, and most importantly of all, did he make the players around him better? In his time, in his era, was he a top 5, top 10 quarterback in the league?”
No, the big game is not the NFC Championship Game. It’s a bigger than normal game, and it’s impressive to get to as many as McNabb did. But to reach the NFC Championship Game that many times and only make the Super Bowl once is indicative that maybe you just weren’t good enough to get them over the hump. After all, you were one of the main constants on all of those teams.
Speaking of the real big game, let’s not forget how he played in his the one Super Bowl appearance he did take his Eagles to. He did throw for 357 yards and 3 touchdowns, but completed less than 60 percent of his passes (30 for 51), and also threw three interceptions. And one of the lasting images of the game is McNabb hunched over, apparently getting sick in the huddle toward the end of the game.
Did McNabb make the players around him better? Tough argument to make. Assuming wide receiver is the position most easily made better by a good quarterback, only three receivers in McNabb’s career had a single 1,000 yard season with him throwing passes – Terrell Owens in 2004 (who was pretty well established when he came to Philly), Kevin Curtis in 2007 (McNabb missed two games) and DeSean Jackson in 2009 (McNabb missed two games).
This argument could work for or against him. He did not take a lot of receivers from good to great, as someone like Aikman did with guys like Alvin Harper. Harper was a big contributor to Dallas’ Super Bowl era. But once Harper left the Cowboys, Dallas kept winning and Harper fell into relative obscurity. On the other hand, McNabb could argue with some legitimacy that he was not surrounded by much talent at the wide receiver position until the team surrounded him with Jackson and then Jeremy Maclin during his final year with the Eagles. Even Curtis cannot be considered a top-level player – he had a couple good years, but was not a superstar by any stretch.
Finally, regarding McNabb’s “was he a top five, top 10 quarterback in the league” statement, it isn’t quite that simple. First, a top 10 quarterback, even for one season, represents basically being in the top-third of quarterbacks in the league – hardly a compelling argument for being a Hall of Fame-level quarterback or to even say that player had a special season. Even looking at a player’s entire career, being in the top 10 quarterbacks for an era doesn’t get you into the Hall most of the time, so you almost have to be top five for your era.
Kriegel followed McNabb’s answer above up with the statement: “You were top five.” To which McNabb responded, “Definitely.”
Looking again at his statistics, he just wasn’t. If you look at his seasons on leader boards for passing statistics, he had two seasons in the top five in completions (and was at the same or higher in rank for attempts in those seasons), zero for passing yards, one for passing touchdowns and two for passer rating.
If you look at “Similar Players” on Pro-Football-Reference.com, for his career you get Mark Brunell, Steve McNair, Terry Bradshaw (HOF but different era), Kelly & Aikman, Boomer Esiason, Roger Staubach (HOF but different era), Drew Bledsoe, Ken Stabler and Bob Griese (HOF but different era).
His era is a bit difficult to define exactly. But it’s clear that guys like Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees and even Brett Favre – whose career was well underway when McNabb arrived on the scene and who was still around as McNabb’s time in Philly was winding down – are competitors from the early part of his career who have McNabb beat hands down. Add in Ben Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, Philip Rivers and even Aaron Rodgers from the latter part of McNabb’s career and his accomplishments, however impressive, start to slide quickly down that top 10 list on which he so strongly feels he belongs.
So it’s fairly clear to see where we stand on the Is-McNabb-Hall-Worthy question: his numbers were better than we expected when looking back at his cumulative stats. But they still don’t add up to him being one of the top few elite players at his position for his era. People always talk about guys whose careers fall just short of the Hall of Fame being candidates for the fictional Hall of Very Good. If there were a Hall of Very Good and it was putting on an advertising campaign, McNabb would be its spokesman.
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I’d bet on him getting into the Hall of Fame. But I wouldn’t be 100% confident of winning that bet.
McNabb shouldn’t get anywhere near Canton. He only deserved to go to two or maybe three of the Pro Bowls he was handed. There was huge stat inflation even between the 1990s and 2000s, so comparing himself to Kelly and Aikman is ludicrous. When he retired Aikman had around the third best career completion percentage in NFL history among anyone who had been playing for any length of time (behind west coast system products Montana and Young), and virtually everyone now ahead of him, a group that notably does NOT include McNabb, was active in the pass happy 2000s.
As you say, McNabb’s stats are pedestrian for his era. The only legitimate feather in his cap is a low interception percentage, but by itself that’s not enough. What makes his failure to win a championship worse is that those contending Eagles teams were really carried by their defense. When you combine a great QB with a consistently strong defense in the parity era there’s no excuse for not winning a Super Bowl. McNabb wasn’t a great QB, much less a Hall of Fame one. Many other QBs from the last decade are more deserving of consideration than he is.
It amazes how some sports writers ignore or intentionally fail to comprehend that football is a team sport. Without the parts, you are not who you are. Joe Montana would probably have NOT won more than one super bowl on any team other than the 49ers, and I am giving him the benefit of the doubt. Terry Bradshaw on any other team, including the cowboys, wins zero super bowls and goes down as pedestrian rather than Hall of Fame. To suggest that Donovan Mcnabb is not a hall of fame QB with the numbers and success he had without major talent at the wide receiver position wreaks of lack of comprehension of the sport of football and an outright dislike of Donovan. Put Joe Montana on the Eagles teams and Mcnabb on the 49ers and you bet Montanta would have less super bowl victories……GUARANTEED. If Marino played on those great Steeler teams I honestly don’t think the Steelers would have ever lost a game. IT IS A TEAM SPORT, ALL YOU SELF-LOVING INTELLECTUALLY CHALLENGED SPORTS WRITERS OUT THERE.
Grow up and analyze the outstanding achievements of Donovan with a mediocre at best supporting cast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stephen, I agree that football is a team sport and the success of a player is tied to his teammates. But if HoF worth was tied only to this, Archie Manning would likely be in as well.
Comparing Donovan McNabb to his contemporaries currently suggests he’s unlikely to be elected. He’ll be up against very stiff QB competition more or less of his time — including Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, Drew Brees, Kurt Warner, Ben Roethlisberger, and Eli Manning. I’d currently rank McNabb behind all these players in HoF likelihood, which places him 8th in the pecking order at best. It’s possible but not a guarantee to see eight QBs from the same era in the HoF. Here’s a list of HoF-ers who played four or more years as the primary starting QB during particular decades:
40s: Baugh, Luckman, Graham, Waterfield.
50s: Graham, Layne, Tittle, Unitas, Van Brocklin.
60s: Blanda, Dawson, Jurgensen, Namath, Starr, Tarkenton, Tittle, Unitas.
70s: Bradshaw, Dawson, Fouts, Griese, Jurgensen, Namath, Staubach, Tarkenton.
80s: Elway, Fouts, Kelly, Marino, Montana, Moon.
90s: Elway, Aikman, Kelly, Marino, Montana, Moon, Young (add Favre in a few years).
There have been eight HoF QBs from only half those decades, which suggests McNabb has at best an outside chance — if indeed he’s 8th best here. Best as I can guess, he’ll be in the “just missed” area with Steve McNair, Philip Rivers, and Drew Bledsoe from his time and other “good but not quite” players from earlier decades like John Hadl, Jack Kemp, John Brodie, Tobin Rote, Kenny Stabler, Phil Simms, Charlie Conerly, Roman Gabriel, Daryle Lamonica, Dave Krieg, Vinny Testaverde, Boomer Esiason, Randall Cunningham, Don Meredith, Jim Hart, and Frank Ryan.
he will never be in the hall of fame