With the 2013 induction ceremony in the books, it’s time to start looking into who the 2014 class will include. The list of modern-era nominees is likely a ways off, but the senior committee will likely be announcing its pair of contenders sometime within the next few weeks.
The Pro Football Researchers Association, led by Ken Crippen, plans to promote four candidates:
Al Wistert, an offensive tackle who played for the Philadelphia Eagles from 1943 to 1951. Pro Football Reference lists him as a one-time Pro Bowler and a four-time First Team All-Pro on the Associated Press list. His overall resume is even more decorated when you take into accounts organizations like United Press International, Pro Football Illustrated and others.
Laverne “Lavvie” Dilweg, an end with the Milwaukee Badgers in 1926 and the Green Bay Packers from 1927 to 1934. Dilweg was an AP First Team All Pro five times and he graded out well compared with the best players of the era, including Don Hutson, according to a fact sheet published by the PFWA.
Frederick Wayman “Duke” Slater, a tackle who played 10 years of pro football after a stellar college career at the University of Iowa. He played for the Badgers in 1922 and then with Rock Island Independents from 1922 to 1926 and then joined the Chicago Cardinals in the NFL as one of just five black players in the league. He lasted in the NFL through 1931, often as the only African American player in the league. He participated in a game during which Ernie Nevers scored six touchdowns and achieved All-Pro status six times, though his playing days preceded the Associated Press list.
Mac Speedie, an end with Cleveland during a seven-year run from 1946 to 1952. Speedie was a two-time Pro Bowler and a three-time AP All Pro first teamer who led the league in catches four times in that span.
A strong and rational case can be made for any of those four. Other regularly mentioned names on this site include Johnny Robinson, the AFL defensive back who played for the Dallas Texans and Kansas City Chiefs; Jerry Kramer, the former Packers guard known in part for making the block that sprung Bart Starr to paydirt in the Ice Bowl; and Chuck Howley, a six-time Pro Bowler and five-time first team AP linebacker who starred for Dallas.
A personal favorite of mine whose career I’ve been studying up on is Mick Tingelhoff, who didn’t miss a start at center for Minnesota between 1962 and 1978 while matching Howley’s Pro Bowl/AP profile.
I’d like to look at some of these candidates in more detail in the months and weeks ahead. And I know you’ve got some of your favorites as well. So vote in the poll. And state your case in the comments section for who you think the strongest senior candidates should be for the class of 2014.
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It’s very possible none of them may be chosen, but if up to me, it’s Johnny Robinson and Al Wistert who are my top priorities.
These elections are always frustrating and full of uncertainty to the point that perhaps the only thing I am certain of is that two players from this list will be selected. As I posted on another discussion the election of KC and GB players in 2013 suggests to me that in 2014 it is very unlikely that Kramer (GB) and/or J Robinson (KC) will be selected. Although I respect the work of the Pro Football Researchers Association, I think the time for the pre 1960s players may have passed, especially with so many more qualified candidates on the recent finalist lists from the 1960s/1970s. Watch Ken Anderson as he could also be a dark horse candidate of many (and not included on this board vote list)
RG – Jerry Kramer 5/3/60’s (finalist 2012, 2013)
G – Bob Kuechenberg 2/6/70s-80s (finalist 2012, 2013)
C – Mick Tingelhoff 5/6/60’s-70’s (finalist 2012, 2013)
LT – Jim Tyrer 6/9/60-70’s (finalist 2012)
QB – Ken Anderson 3/4/70s-80s (finalist 2012)
WR – Cliff Branch 4/4 – 70s-80s (finalist 2012, 2013)
RDT – Roger Brown 2/6/60’s (finalist 2012, 2013)
LDE – L.C.Greenwood 2/6/70’s (finalist 2013)
DE – Claude Humphrey 5/6/70s (finalist 2012, 2013)
DT – Alex Karras 0/4 60s (finalist 2012)
RLB – Maxie Baughan 2/9/60’s (finalist 2012)
MLB – Tommy Nobis 1/5/60’s-70’s (finalist 2012)
LLB – Chuck Howley 5/6/60’s-70’s (finalist 2012, 2013)
LB- Mike Curtis 2/4/60s-70s (finalist 2012, 2013)
CB/S – Eddie Meador 2/6/60’s (finalist 2012, 2013)
CB – Lester Hayes 1/5/70s 80s (finalist 2012)
S – Johnny Robinson 6/7/60’s (finalist 2012, 2013)
FS – Cliff Harris 3/6/70’s (finalist 2012, 2013)
P – Ray Guy 6/7/70s-80s (finalist 2012, 2013)
Chuck Howley – 6 Pro Bowls; 5 AP first team All Pro selections; first defensive Super Bowl MVP; considered for MVP again in the following Super Bowl after another impactful performance in the Cowboys’ win; member of the exclusive 20/20 sack/interception club; 26.5 sacks, 25 interceptions, and 18 fumble recoveries; totaled 590 turnover return yards and scored 3 tds; tough and athletic player (only person in WVU history to letter in five sports – football, track, wrestling, gymnastics and swimming) who was still flying around the field making plays at an advanced age; consistently showed up huge in both big and regular games over a 15 year career (13 with the Cowboys); considered the greatest LB in Dallas franchise history; early Cowboys Ring of Honor inductee; key member of Doomsday defense on the only team to hold its Super Bowl opponent without a touchdown.
There are numerous #2 candidates I’d be happy with, but they need to get Howley in.
I should add that Howley won AP first team All Pro and/or Pro Bowl accolades over the course of 7 different seasons, and likely deserved them in others when the team was still a struggling expansion franchise.
Just curious, who are some of these #2 candidates you mention?
Brutal trying to pick just two. I voted for Al Wistert because he’s the oldest of these folks still alive, and Lavvie Dilweg because he’s probably the earliest player not in (it’s either him or Duke Slater). All of those check-off options are highly deserving, though — oy, two slots and way too many good candidates.
Corey, many of those who have been listed on this page, as long as the other one is Chuck Howley. I’ve discussed a lot of guys here, but at this point for me the senior process is all about getting Howley in, since I think he’s far and away the most qualified candidate from that era.
Al Wistert should’ve gone in a long time ago I think. He would be my number two behind Johnny Robinson. He was a four time first team all pro, member of the 1940s All Decade team, captain of the Eagles on two championship teams. It seems to me like he should be in, unless it’s because he had a relatively short career and that is why he is overlooked.
johnny robinson
and maxie baughan would be my candidates
I’m curious your reasoning on Maxie Baughan over the other linebackers. I certainly think there is a place for Baughan in Canton but would like to know how he gets the edge over Howley, Brazile and Gradishar in your book.
I agree with Paul when he says that the 2 candidates will come from the finalist list. For whatever reason, I just have the feeling that this will be Mick Tinglehoff’s year. He’s consistently talked about as one of the biggest senior snubs, and has been a mentioned finalist for the past 2 years.
Perhaps more importantly though, he doesn’t have any “process baggage” (not sure what else to really call it) working against him. He wasn’t recently considered as a modern-era candidate (like Kuechenberg, Hayes, and Guy), wasn’t a recent senior’s finalist (like Humphrey), didn’t have a teammate nominated last season (like Robinson, Kramer or Tyrer), didn’t have another player from his position nominated last year (like Baughan, Curtis, Nobis, Howley, Karras and Brown), and won’t be compared against a superior modern-era candidate at his position (like Greenwood with Strahan, Branch with Reed/Brown or Meador with Williams).
For the 2nd player, the above criteria only leaves Ken Anderson and Cliff Harris. I am going to go with Cliff Harris to make it one from offense and one from defense.
This is the assumption that such criteria is followed. I absolutely believe Mick Tingelhoff should be in, but I question how many will decide not to vote for him because of all the Super Bowls he lost while as a member of the Vikings. Not saying it is right, but possible. To me, he should’ve been in years ago.
I think the continued HOF voter bias against Safeties will continue to hurt both Robinson and Harris.
Tingelhoff and Anderson are very possible, but also possible that we will see a player from the 1960s (Howley?) paired with one from the 1970s (Tingelhoff), also giving offensive and defensive players selected.
The heaviest “baggage” Tingelhoff carries (which I believe has hurt is HOF chances all these years) are the SB losses.
Which shouldn’t be any baggage because he would be a great candidate. If it is true he is getting serious consideration then I would anticipate he would be one of the two senior nominees. It would be long overdue.
could ray guy be a consideration for a senior nominee despite the fact he is a punter and played mostly on special teams?
I agree Paul, I think that the Super Bowl losses are the biggest knock against Tingelhoff. I think that the fact that several Vikings from those losing teams are already in the HOF may not be helping him either. I personally don’t think that Super Bowls really make an enormous difference to a candidate’s credentials outside of QB’s and head coaches, but in a process where very little separates the senior candidates it could be a tipping point.
I think Ken Anderson is also very possible. He is many people’s choice as the best QB not in the hall, and aside from the unique case of Kurt Warner, he won’t have a serious contender to that title until Favre is eligible. The question is whether or not voters feel like Anderson is the cutoff point for HOF QB’s. I think he belongs in my opinion.
With Howley, a nomination for him wouldn’t surprise me either. The Hall has been binging on senior LB’s lately, and Howley is in my opinion the best option at a position with a lot of good candidates. Of course, knowing the committee that just means they’ll nominate Mike Curtis instead :).
chris – I think with Ray Guy, it’s a tough call. There are clearly a group of members that won’t vote for him solely because of his position (which is BS to me in a big way), and I think the senior committee likes safe candidates that are unlikely to get voted down. I also think a big knock against him is that he’s only a couple of years removed from being a finalist and semi-finalist as a modern-era candidate.
In that scenario, it’ll come down to whether he didn’t get in because there were better candidates (highly possible given the solid recent classes), or because the voters just didn’t find him worthy. It’s worked both ways over the past decade…Carl Eller got in immediately as a senior candidate after several near misses as a modern-era guy, while Claude Humphrey got voted down after he was quickly nominated as a senior pick.
I agree with BSLO that with so many qualified and long waiting senior candidates at regular positions it is going to be very hard and perhaps a long road ahead for the senior committee members to select Ray Guy as a Punter over the many deserving senior players. It will be hard for them to break the mindset (which I personally do not agree with) that special team players are some how less deserving for election.
BSLO is also right that it appears in recent years the senior committee has tried to go with “safe” selections understanding the potential issues that will arise over the need for two senior nominees if the HOF committee were to regularly vote down a senior, and Guy is just to risky a pick.
And finally lets all remember that only 9 HOF voters are on the seniors committee and only 5 of them each year meet to select the two nominees from the list of 15 finalists selected by the 9 member committee. So basically the case for a senior nominee can come down to a simply majority of 3 members of the senior committee – thus it is really hard to determine how they come to such decisions and the discussions and potential lobbying and deal making that occur to advocate for a senior nominee. Thus the reason why it can be so hard to determine the likely selections each year.
i guess. its just a shame that ray guy has to be looked at in a different light as supposed to the other worthy senior candidates but his time will come hopefully in the future
My Top 5 (no particular order)
1. Chuck Howley
2. Mick Tingelhoff
3. Maxie Baughan
4. Al Wistert
5.Ken Anderson
what do you think of my list
that is a pretty good list, I could support any 2 from those five
i put ken anderson a little higher
While I don’t object to any of the names on your list, as far as I am concerned Johnny Robinson should be on the list at #1.
I strongly approve of you putting Chuck Howley at #1.
reason I didn’t put robinson at #1 is that they considered a kc chief last year Curley Culp and I have doubts that they would consider another chief just saying
Was your Top 5 of who is most likely to be chosen or who is most deserving?
wheres ken staber
You can make a case for Ken Stabler, but I personally think he’s a borderline candidate. Certainly not one of the top five or six biggest snubs of all time. In fact, I think he’d be the third or fourth Raider I’d consider right now behind Cliff Branch, Lester Hayes and, maybe, Ray Guy. Just my opinion.
I’d have Stabler fourth on my Raiders best-not-in-the-HoF list at best, definitely behind Branch, Guy, and Dave Grayson. Maybe Hayes and Todd Christensen as well.
If last year’s timing is any guide, we could expect the announcement of the 2014 senior nominees by this Wednesday (Aug 21st)
Tingelhoff is the biggest snub, but kramer and howley areare tied for second
It is a big mystery to many people, including some HOF voters, why Kramer has not been elected or recently been nominated as a Senior, but with a GB player elected as senior this year, looks very likely that his snub will continue for a while longer.
link to updated article on selection of 2014 seniors to announced on Weds (Aug 21st)
http://www.profootballhof.com/enshrinement/2013/8/19/on-to-the-class-of-2014/
Less than one day before the 2014 senior nominees are announced, good luck to all the candidates, any last minute changes to anyone’s guess as to the two players?
I am going with Anderson and Howley (which given my luck in predicting these in the past means likely neither will be nominated!)
paul did my list help in any way
I don’t know who is going to be selected, but I think they’ll be better than next year.
and the nominees are Ray Guy and Claude Humphrey
prediction?
WOW STUNNING!!
Just saw on my twitter feed (was offline last hour), very brave risky move by the seniors committee to select the first punter and a player just recently turned down for election as a senior candidate by the full committee (in 2009). Congrats to both (although I know many supporters including those for Kramer will be upset), and can only hope they both get elected and we do not end up with both turned down!
Ray Guy and Claude Humphrey
We’ve got an updated reaction to the announcement and a poll posted here: https://www.zoneblitz.com/2013/08/21/claude-humphrey-ray-guy-named-2014-senior-hall-fame-candidates/
Hope you’ll check it out.
Wow, I am stunned! But, not at all disappointed as both are very deserving. The HOF’s message boards won’t be nearly as interesting though without the dozens of “NO RAY GUY??????>> THE HALL IS A JOKE!!!!!!!!1111111” comments from crazy Raiders fans.
Oh not to worry they have been (and will continue to be) full of “THE HOF IS A TRAVESTY WITHOUT JERRY KRAMER”
Chuck Howley and Johnny Robinson might be the two biggest omissions from the HOF, that I can’t understand. Jerry Kramer and Randy Gradishar are right behind them.
Oh lets see the 2014 election completed before we start thinking about 2015 seniors