DeBartolo earns Hall of Fame finalist status as contributor

11 Comments

1. bachslunch on September 3, 2015 at 9:41 am

   The more I look at this nomination, the less I like it:

   -I haven’t been able to find any information on any significant contribution DeBartolo made to the NFL beyond team ownership and success at winning. Committee work? Innovations? Anything? Most of the other owners enshrined did something significant along these lines, and ones who didn’t like Charles Bidwill are considered mistakes.

   -by the standards of what was done “on the field,” he’s got some really unsavory stuff, specifically (1) circumventing the salary cap and (2) having to give up ownership of his team because of corruption-related issues. The PFHoF bylaws say not to consider off-field character related stuff, but this is different.

   There’s a video over at the PFHoF website explaining this choice at the HoF website from a selector:

   http://www.profootballhof.com/enshrinement/2015/9/2/jarrett-bell-shares-insight-on-selection-of-contributor-finalist/

   Couple of thoughts from what I saw:

   -DeBartolo having been “in the room” before was a factor.

   -heard the idea expressed that he set a model for running winning NFL franchises or something to that effect. Well I guess being caught circumventing the salary cap and later having to give up ownership of your team because of corruption-related issues is some kind of model for some kinds of businesses, but…

   Sorry, but this looks pretty appalling to me.

2. Andy on September 3, 2015 at 10:01 am

   Hmm. I mention the corruption situation, but i admit – i’d forgotten about the salary cap issue. Interesting point about the lack of other contributions too. I don’t know what I think of the selection. I’m not nearly as studied up on the “contributor” side of things… I certainly would agree that it seems there are stronger candidates out there in the senior category, as you indicate in the other recent post. So it’s clear this will not be the strongest slate of non-modern-era candidates.

3. Paul on September 3, 2015 at 10:19 am

   I agree that he was perhaps not the strongest of the contributor candidates but I saw the writing on the wall with this one at least as from 2012-14 he received enough voters from the full HOF Selection Committee to advance into the final 15 each of those three years so clearly he has support from a majority of voters – which also foreshadows his likely election next February.

   This “in the room before” view also gives both the seniors and contributors committee a safe haven in that by advancing such candidates they are anticipating an easier case as the candidate is deserving because he was discussed before and also not new so the pro/con debates have been held before – seems to be they are trying to make their job as committees less work and also increase odds of elections.

   Although I can see the advantages to such an approach, the concern I have is (especially in the case of the 2016 senior nominees) that you are jumping over more qualified candidates that have been short listed in recent years as top candidates and still not nominated (example, Howley).

   The corruption was not related to his owner of the 49ers (it was another business venture) and he did follow League rules and step down from his ownership, and I do not recall the specifics of the salary cap violations, how serious were they and was it proven and required league sanctions?

4. bachslunch on September 3, 2015 at 11:05 am

   Looked further on this. DeBartolo wasn’t directly fined but the team itself and his GM Carmen Policy were, in 1997 and 2000. The former for sure occurred under DeBartolo’s watch. See:

   http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?id=11876002

   which lists the following among the NFL’s largest fines at the tme:

   $400,000 — 49ers executive Carmen Policy, violating the league’s salary cap in 1997, 2000.
   $300,000 — San Francisco franchise, violating the league’s salary cap in 1997, 2000.

   According to this website, DeBartolo was not only forced to give up his ownership of the ‘Niners because of corruption issues, he was also fined by the league for them:

   $1 million — San Francisco 49ers owner Edward DeBartolo, Jr., for conduct detrimental to the NFL, after DeBartolo who pleaded guilty to a felony in his role in a Louisiana gambling scandal, 1999.

   The team was also fined for violating the corporate ownership policy during DeBartolo’s tenure:

   $500,000 — San Francisco franchise, violating the league’s corporate ownership policy, 1990.

   Re the salary cap issue, see also this:

   http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/01/will-a-criminal-enter-the-pro-football-hall-of-fame.html

   which states “DeBartolo also played fast and fancy with the NFL salary cap rules but for some inexplicable reason NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue looked the other way even though there were whispers around the league in the 1990s that Eddie D’s 49ers were willfully not following the league rules.”

   Regardless, it’s hard to believe Carmen Policy would have decided to fudge the salary cap without DeBartolo’s knowledge.

5. Paul on September 3, 2015 at 3:32 pm

   Looks like the HOF voters are willing to focus on the five SB wins, 10 NFC championship games and 10+ win seasons from 1981-1995 period, and ignoring the last few years of ownership and issues with salary cap and scandal.

6. Rasputin on September 3, 2015 at 3:49 pm

   I agree with bachslunch. Apart from hiring Bill Wash and sitting there while others won SBs, I’m not sure what he’s supposed to have contributed. Why not induct Clint Murchinson then? A famously hands off owner, at least he had the vision to stand by Landry and extend his contract for a decade at a time when it was very controversial. That alone vaults him over DeBartolo at least.

   A wasted year at best. Hopefully the selectors shoot this down and send a message to the nominating committee to get its act together.

7. Paul on September 3, 2015 at 4:42 pm

   I guessing that since the full HOF voting committee advanced him into final 15 from 2012-14, they will easily support and elect DeBartolo, same for the two senior candidates who have also been considered before and are deserving. During his time as owner I recall many praises from players, coaches, media and others in the league about how as an owner he played an important role in creating an environment of winning, including FAs and hiring Walsh and GMs, plus how many other owners can claim 5 SBs? Appears HOF voters feel the same.

   Frankly I have always felt that having the full HOF committee turn down senior and contributors is unfair since they already survived cut downs from large lists to final 15 and then nomination within their categories, plus rejecting these candidates only hurts the senior and contributor process in the long run and others waiting for consideration. Held that view for many years and reminded that Paul Zimmerman resigned from the seniors committee for the very same reason when the full committee rejected senior candidate Bob Hayes the first time.

   I do believe there were better selections for both, but come February meeting I would support their election so as to validate the process and keep it in place for others into the future. So I do not see it as a wasted year, especially considering it removes three candidates who otherwise if not selected by their respective committees or rejected by the full HOF committee would remain as barriers to others.

8. Robert Ewing on September 3, 2015 at 5:16 pm

   agreed with you there paul and here is an srticle you might be interested in http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2000-12-05/sports/0012050096_1_salary-cap-violations-carmen-policy-penalties does this help somewhat

   one other proposal I have is instead of the senior numbers and contributors rotating every year have 4 modern era players 2 contributors and two seniors my other question is should the coaches and assistant coaches be moved over to the contributor side so It can free up a spot for another modern era guy

   Just to let you know bachs lunch I was the one who originally brought up ed buddes case

9. bachslunch on September 3, 2015 at 7:54 pm

   Andy, one question you asked is whether there are better owner candidates than DeBartolo. While I’m having trouble getting excited about any of the nominees in this category, none have the depth of “scandal” issues DeBartolo has, though Art Modell has questionable issues of his own (the Gries Sports Enterprise Lawsuit, Dan Moldea’s allegations in his book “Interference” about ties to bookies and organized crime figures). But Modell also has several positives, such as helping develop NFL Films and strong work on the broadcast and labor committees, while I’m not seeing such a boost for DeBartolo.

   Re Pat Bowlen, the Broncos committed salary cap violations from 1996-1998 during his ownership tenure. No idea what his committee work track record was. Anybody know?

   Am not aware of such issues with Jerry Jones; the worst I’ve seen is his being fined for violating a gag order on labor issues. Pretty tame stuff, actually. But (at least until recently) his track record as his own GM wasn’t helping his case. Reportedly, Jones has done a good bit of committee work — Rasputin, you probably know more about this for him. That would be a plus, if so.

10. Rasputin on September 4, 2015 at 2:15 am

    Jerry Jones has done some groundbreaking stuff on the business side of things and always seems to be a major player in big league decisions, competition committee stuff, etc.. As a famously hands on owner and defacto GM he probably has a stronger HoF case than DeBartolo on the merits, and it wouldn’t surprise me if he is enshrined one day, though winning another Super Bowl would definitely help with that. There are other contributors I’d induct first though. I don’t think we need to put in an owner just for the sake of putting in an owner.

    To Paul, I think the process has clearly failed and I have no interest in preserving it.

11. robert ewing on September 4, 2015 at 8:53 pm

    At least they didn’t go with modell