With Morten Andersen, Terrell Davis, Jason Taylor, LaDainian Tomlinson, Kurt Warner, Kenny Easley and Jerry Jones set to be inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame tonight, figured we were just a bit overdue for our annual Hall of Fame prediction for next year.
Of course, we start with the finalists that didn’t make the cut in 2017.
The final five cut:
Tony Boselli, T, Jacksonville Jaguars
Brian Dawkins, S, Philadelphia Eagles/Denver Broncos
John Lynch, S, Tampa Bay Buccaneers/Denver Broncos
Ty Law, CB, New England Patriots/New York Jets/Kansas City/Denver Broncos
Kevin Mawae, C, Seattle Seahawks/New York Jets/Tennessee Titans
Our take: No reason these five won’t be finalists again in 2018.
The first five finalists eliminated:
Isaac Bruce, WR, LA/St. Louis Rams, San Francisco 49ers
Don Coryell, Coach, San Diego Chargers
Alan Faneca, G, Pittsburgh Steelers/New York Jets/Arizona Cardinals
Joe Jacoby, T, Washington Redskins
Terrell Owens, WR, San Francisco 49ers/Philadelphia Eagles/Dallas Cowboys/Buffalo Bills/Cincinnati Bengals
Tony’s take: Although interest in Coryell seems to ebb and flow, he has been a finalist for three straight years (4 overall), so it would seem unlikely that he will drop. It took Joe Jacoby years to make the finalist list, but after being a semifinalist seven times, he’s finally been a finalist the last two years. He faces his final year as a modern-era candidate, so he’s unlikely to drop.
Faneca and Owens have each made the finalist list twice, and although Owens’ attitude after last year’s “snub” could turn some more voters off, it’s unlikely to cost him his spot as a finalist. Isaac Bruce was a finalist for the first time last year—if anyone were to drop from the list this year, it’s likely him—but we don’t see that happening.
Andy’s take: I don’t agree on several of these. Bruce, to me, is not even the most worthy WR off the Greatest Show on Turf. Torry Holt, who dropped out as a semifinalist last year, deserves it more. I’ll predict voters realize the error of their ways and replace Bruce with Holt.
I also think, right or wrong, that Coryell will start to fade from view a bit. I still believe Jimmy Johnson should have been inducted before Tony Dungy and I’ll suggest the former Cowboys coach will knock Coryell from the final 15. It may be an argument for later, but I think coaches need to be considered with contributors or as their own separate category. There are a number of head guys and assistants who would be solid, legitimate Hall candidates who will never get noticed under the current system.
I also think there are others who could get bumped from this list, as there is a solid group of first-time eligible players coming up this year too. Jacoby jumps out at me. I think there’s a good chance it’s going to be up to the senior committee to ultimately determine his fate.
Semifinalists
There were actually 11 additional names cut between the Semifinalist and Finalist stage:
Steve Atwater, S, Denver Broncos/New York Jets (finalist in 2016)
Roger Craig, RB, San Francisco 49ers/Los Angeles Raiders/Minnesota Vikings
Chris Hinton, T/G, Baltimore/Indianapolis Colts/Atlanta Falcons/Minnesota Vikings
Torry Holt, WR, St. Louis Rams/Jacksonville Jaguars
Edgerrin James, RB, Indianapolis Colts/Arizona Cardinals/Seattle Seahawks (finalist in 2016)
Jimmy Johnson, Coach, Dallas Cowboys/Miami Dolphins
Mike Kenn, T, Atlanta Falcons
Clay Matthews, LB, Cleveland Browns/Atlanta Falcons
Karl Mecklenburg, LB, Denver Broncos
Hines Ward, WR, Pittsburgh Steelers
Darren Woodson, S, Dallas Cowboys
Tony’s Take: Despite what I’m guessing Steelers fans will say about Hines Ward, I personally see Holt, James and possibly Atwater as the most likely to ascend to the finalist stage — possibly with Jimmy Johnson as a wildcard, although in recent years I’ve backed off on my opinion of his worthiness to the Hall.
The bigger issue that many in this list face are some of the first-time eligible players coming into the list:
Ray Lewis, LB, Baltimore Ravens – Basically a sure thing finalist, and by far the best bet to make it all the way to Canton in his first year. In fact, probably higher on the list than any of last year’s finalists.
Randy Moss, WR, Minnesota Vikings/Oakland Raiders/New England Patriots/Tennessee Titans/San Francisco 49ers – Likely a lock to make the finalist list, but not as sure of a lock to make the Hall in his first as many make him out to be. His attitude, combined with the uphill battle that many WR face in being elected may leave him on the outside for a few years, just like Owens.
Brian Urlacher, LB, Chicago Bears – I’m on the record repeatedly as saying that Urlacher was overrated, as he seemed to disappear when he didn’t have great defensive tackles clearing the path for him. That being said, he had a great career, and is likely to make the finalist cut at a minimum.
Ronde Barber, CB/S, Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Along with Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks (already both in Canton) and Lynch, Barber was part of the nucleus that brought a Lombardi Trophy to Tampa. Not sure it’s enough in year one, but his numbers will almost assuredly get him there someday—along with his brother Tiki (of course, Tiki will have to buy a ticket).
Steve Hutchinson, G, Seattle Seahawks/Minnesota Vikings – Hutch will not make the Hall of Fame this year, as there are several other Offensive Lineman ahead of him on the list, and interior lineman struggle in their first couple of years, possibly due to the anonymity of their job (heck, Hutchinson’s write up on the Hall of Fame site isn’t even accurate). He should crack the semi-finalist list, and might sneak into the finalist list, although it wouldn’t be a travesty if he had to wait a couple of years—even Randall McDaniel had to wait.
Richard Seymour, DL, New England Patriots/Oakland Raiders – Not likely to make the finalist list, but another solid semi-finalist that will likely start to make a push in a few years.
Other first-year eligible: Matt Birk, Keith Brooking, Plaxico Burress, Nate Clements, Leonard Davis, Donald Driver, Casey Hampton, Jason Hanson, Jeff Saturday, Takeo Spikes, Kyle Vanden Bosch, Adrian Wilson, Antoine Winfield
Our picks for Finalist:
| Tony | Andy |
| Boselli | Boselli |
| Bruce | Atwater |
| Coryell | Johnson |
| Dawkins | Dawkins |
| Faneca | Faneca |
| Holt | Holt |
| Jacoby | Hutchinson |
| James | James |
| Law | Law |
| Lewis | Lewis |
| Lynch | Lynch |
| Mawae | Mawae |
| Moss | Moss |
| Owens | Owens |
| Urlacher | Urlacher |
And our picks for the final five (who, per usual, will all be elected):
| Tony | Andy |
| Lewis | Lewis |
| Dawkins | Dawkins |
| Lynch | Owens |
| Mawae | Faneca |
| Owens | Mawae |
Andy’s take: Lewis is a no-brainer and Owens has probably served his time. Mawae was clearly the best center of his era. I’d be fine with Lynch but with the struggles safeties have getting in, I’m going to call it a victory as long as either he or Dawkins gets in. I’ll throw in Alan Faneca and his nine Pro Bowls as my one disagreement with Tony.
I’m sure several of you have left your thoughts on our other posts, but let’s hear it again in the comments–who does everyone have on their Class of 2018 Pro Football Hall of Fame List?
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Lewis, Dawkins, one of Moss/Owens, Lynch and I’ll say Jacoby gets the surprise.
Good prediction but it could absolutely can come down to 10-12 players.
This will be a very tough group to five to predict. The only sure bet here is Ray Lewis. The other four could be anyone because of logjam issues.
My guess is Lewis, Lynch, Dawkins, Mawae, and Jacoby. But I definitely be wrong.
Ray Lewis is a gimme along with Brian Urlacher IMO. Can’t wait to see Moss go in before Owens. LOL Great fodder for the sports shows. Maybe wishful thinking. lol Both will definitely go in by 2019 Lynch should finally be in this year. I loved watching him hit folks. Jacoby will probably be in too. Have to have more than one Hog in the HOF. I think Alan Faneca will make it. That’s five and as for the Seniors I don’t give a hoot because it will be the same old song with Kramer and Robinson getting snubbed.
My guess for this year is Ray Lewis, Brain Dawkins, Joe Jacoby, Brian Urlacher and Kevin Mawae.
I didn’t pack Owens or Moss because I have a feeling about those with voters holding grudges. I think Owens comments about not being voted in is going to hurt his odds. The other things that hurts Owens by his comment last month basically saying Jason Witten isn’t a good Tight End. Keep in mind that Terrell Owens always had a thing against Jason Witten starting in his Cowboy playing days.
What Owens said about Witten speaks about that he holds grudges and that is something voters don’t look to kindly. The other thing that makes it look bad for Owens is the fact Jason Witten is one of the top 5 tight ends of all time.
Witten is known as one of the 5 Tight Ends of all time.
Lewis, Fanaca, Law, Dawkins, Boselli. And I agree that besides Lewis any of 6-8 others have chance as depends how voters view logjams at OL and S, plus how to deal with Owens and TO. I am leaning heavy on final 10 from 2017 but given recent elections reshuffling of finalists order within final 15 is again very possible
Those were some wonderful speeches and stories last night.
I agree Corey very polished and impressive. Maybe it was me but I didn’t think the crowd was as into these HOFers as some of the past events. I guess it’s because none of them were from the area. I was most interested in what Jerry Jones had to say.
Crowd did seem smaller than in recent years (and I know new stadium is bigger) plus PFHOF was pushing hard on tickets sales last week.
the chances i think jerry kramer getting the senior nom is not good again just my opnion
I agree that Lewis is the only lock in this class, but I think I would go with the exact same predictions as Andy with my remaining 4 (Owens, Dawkins, Faneca, Mawae). Urlacher, and Moss are guaranteed to be finalists in their first year, while I think Barber, Hutchinson and Seymour make the semifinalist list as well. My guess is that Edge and Jimmy Johnson rejoin the finalist list along with the other 10 from last year.
With one or 2 players likely to drop from the semi-finalist list, my guesses would be that Hinton, Matthews or Ward drop off this year (while remaining likely to rejoin it next year). I don’t see a late push for either Jacoby or Craig in their final year of eligibility.
My predictions ( not my selections) for seniors would be Kleco and Brazile, contributor Bowlen.
As many are suggesting beyond Lewis, the other four 2018 moderns could be a real mix of several players, such as Owens/Moss, Dawkins/Lynch; Boselli/Faneca/Mawae; and perhaps even Law. I do not see both Owens/Moss-but one is possible, same for Dawkins/Lynch (one not two, especially considering how traditionally PFHOF voters view the Safety position). Based on how the OL fell in the finalist order in 2017 , it looks like voters prefer Boselli/Mawae (final 10) over Jacoby/Faneca. Since Law was also in final 10 for 2017 he could also be in the mix.
So that could leave it as Lewis, Dawkins/Lynch, Boselli, Mawae, and Owens/Moss/Law
I think you will see it go this way: Ray Lewis, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Alan Faneca and Brian Urlacher. I will be rooting for Joe Jacoby and Ty Law over Faneca and Urlacher though.
Other than the sheer numbers of Chiefs and Packers in the Hall I see no reason why Kramer and Robinson are not in there. They must have something on these guys preventing them from the HOF. The senior election committee has done a horrible job over the years by passing over guys I remember having an impact along with the stats.
I do not think voters will pick a 2nd LB in Urlacher, he is deserving but get sense they do not see him as 1st year eligible section. Faneca fell back into final 15 in 2017 while both Boselli and Mawae jumped ahead of him into final 10. Why one year later would they have him jump both Boselli and Mawae to election-I just don’t see it happening, perhaps both do not get in but at least one OL will be selected, likely between Boselli/Mawae.
Anquan Boldin just signed with the Bills. Assuming he makes the team, could this season be the year that really locks his HOF chances? He had 65 receptions for 584 yards, and 8 TDs last year. Not great, but productive. He is just 27 receptions away from being 4th all time(probably 5th due to the fact Witten is gonna play this year as well and still a solid TE) and he is 567 yards away from being in top 10 in receiving yards. I think those are easily HOF numbers. Not saying he is gonna be in right away. I think he is going to have to wait a long long time. Possibly 13-14 years or on his last couple ballots.
He may end up with the numbers (but by the time he is eligible for PFHOF may be passed by others), but his 0/3 profile is really weak, without any SBs, or all decade team, and no All Pro teams he is a very long shot to get elected.
Paul: Boldin won a Super Bowl with Baltimore and was the teams primary offensive weapon for the playoff run. Boldin has been criminally underappreciated as a player. He most resembles Art Monk (admittedly my childhood hero) in that he did whatever was called for on his team. He was/is a fantastic blocker. Runs any and all routes. He even kept playing after a broken face, which was the play that Kurt Warner cited for retiring. In other words, his QB retired after an injury Boldin suffered, even though Boldin kept on playing for another 8 years. Finally, Boldin is the anti-Moss / TO. Not only was he a Walter Payton man of the year, he always made his teams better, including help making Arizona a playoff team after being a long-standing laughingstock. Already mentioned Baltimore. He even helped give Detroit a surprising playoff season with 8 TDs (some in highly dramatic fashion). Can’t hold the SF years against him, as no one would have succeeded with a different coach each year.
Their are a lot of really good WR’s that will never sniff the HOF like. It’s just the nature of the position. A few WR’s I’d like to see in the Hall are Harold Jackson, Drew Pearson, Mark Clayton, Gary Clark, Isaac Bruce and Rod Smith.
If the new standard is the selection has to be a player necessary for the story of the NFL than how can you not pick the most successful WR for Dan Marino? You can’t talk about Marino without the Mark Brothers. Talent wise I think both deserve in. Marino threw deep a lot and wasn’t the most accurate QB. It made for a lot of sensational catches by the diminutive 5″9 Clayton and Duper.
Justin I agree, but PFHOF voters place plenty of wait on season and career awards (as well as pure numbers) and his 0/3 profile is really weak. And lets remember he will not only be up against other WRs on the ballot (also with comparable numbers but more awards), but also many players from other positions with better qualifications, and only 5 slots per year. He is facing a huge mountain to climb to get elected. Art Monk is an interesting comparison as it took him many years to get in and he retired as career receptions leader and he had 3 SB wins, 1(1)/3 and member of all decade team.
Am thinking that Anquan Bolden helped his HoF argument a decent bit this year. If he has another year or two like 2016, he’ll definitely get elected (though probably wait a bit). His argument will be as a compiler, similar to Charlie Joiner or Art Monk, and if he compiles enough, he”s in.
Faneca in my opinion has the best credentials of any OL currently eligible for the modern vote. He may not have the most current momentum, but the voters have been a bit all over the place with their support of OL candidates lately. It seemed like last year Joe Jacoby was a shoo-in for induction, but now it’s a near consensus that he’s headed to the Senior Pool. It wouldn’t surprise me a bit to see Faneca jump the rest of the pack and into the Hall in 2018, and I think it’s a real possibility that two linemen get in this year due to the lack of great QB, RB and TE’s along with a lack of consensus among the WR’s.
As for Boldin, I think he had a great career and I think he’s been very underrated for his overall ability at the position, but he just isn’t quite there for me. There isn’t enough elite production there with just 3 Pro Bowls, only one 2nd-team PFF All-Pro team, and only 3 finishes in the top 10 in receptions and receiving yards.
I don’t think a top 5 all-time finish in receptions is going to be enough for him to make it as a compiler either. Monk and Joiner are in the Hall primarily as compilers, but they also both spent time as the all-time receptions leader. He’ll have to compete with a lot of great WR’s as well during the modern era vote, which is a misfortune that Joiner and Monk didn’t really have. He’s got a career that reminds me a lot of Hines Ward, and as I’ve mentioned more than a couple of times, i don’t think Hines Ward is a HOFer.
Elliot Harrison of NFL.com has a column on who is hearing may be in the 2018 Class. Among the modern finalists he has Ray Lewis, Randy Moss, Brian Dawksins, Tony Boselli and Tony Boselli. The seniors he has Drew Pearson and Alex Karras. Contribuor he has Bobby Beathard. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000826587/article/predicting-the-pro-football-hall-of-fames-class-of-2018
Some of those writers that work for NFL.com who rank the top whatever players for each position have no clue what they are talking about. But that class prediction by Elliot could be realistic. Like I’ve said before, this class is going to be very hard to predict. And given voters name players as finalists in past years but not this past one, there will be surprises. As for Senior Nominees, I hope it’s Robinson, Howley, or Kramer. Some combination of those 3. But, I really think the ship has sailed for them, which is a shame.
On his MMQB mail story today, Peter King focused entirely on the PFHOF selection process and took time to answer 20 questions from fans, many were the same old questions about certain players and other criticisms, but although I do not agree with King or other voters on their views and decisions, I do think they put the effort in and attempt to make good decisions and I respect him for taking the questions and often the heat as many PFHOF voters will not say anything publicly about their views on candidates, outcomes and the process. I for one am not a believer in the mass conspiracy theory that the entire committee or large blocks of them are keeping certain players out-if for only one reason, with 48 members (and many changes to the committee in recent years) it only takes 9 NO votes to keep someone out, does not take much to do so and certainly not a widespread organized effort. When the committee was smaller, and voters served for decades, block voting certainly was more of an issue then it is today. I also do not think Peter King or any other single voter carries enough weight to sway entire elections.
Rob.
Elliot Harrison also had a series of articles last week where he shared who would be on his ballot. This is slightly different to your link which is more of a prediction after speaking to people during the HOF weekend.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000822664/article/who-should-be-in-the-hall-of-fame-picking-the-class-of-2018
Harrison said Howley and Robinson would be his personal choices for the 2018 Seniors. There’s also links to his 2019-22 ballots.
While we’re on the subject of good HoF type articles, here are several from John Turney. His website, Pro Football Journal, is very knowledgable and good, covering a good bit of HoF and non-HoF topics:
http://nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com/2017/08/corners-on-hall-of-fame-market.html
http://nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com/2017/08/the-safety-dance-look-at-some-of-better.html
http://nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com/2017/08/taking-closer-look-at-recent-wide.html
http://nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com/2017/08/running-backs-with-short-careers-with.html
Pearson and Karras would be underwhelming choices for me.
You have got to he kidding me on Pearson Corey why’s that or is Pearson not good enough for you
Every member of the 1st team of every all decade team should be in PFHOF. Period.
Pearson is well behind many on my senior list, including receivers.
I’m not saying Pearson is unworthy of Canton, just that I’m not passionate about his case the way I am for others and I think there are more glaring omissions.
I do believe there are more glaring omissions but I would not be terribly disappointed if Pearson got nominated. I still like some combination of Howley, Kramer and J.Roninson but Pearson and Karras belong in as well.
I am not so sure there are any more glaring omissions that a member of the 1st team of all decade team
Paul: Well, I suppose a 50th Anniversary team member (Kramer) is a bigger omission than an all decade team member. However, your point is still well taken.
In the end, Pearson would be a fine senior candidate. However, his nomination would continue a strange precedent. It seems that Pearson is gaining traction for two reasons: (1) his relatively positive comparison to TO, another former Cowboy WR and (2) his performance at this year’s draft. At this point, the Senior Pool is so deep that basically a player needs a “news hook” to get noticed. That could be his untimely death like Stabler/Stanfel or a memorable performance or mention at another league sponsored event (i.e. Rod Woodson forcefully calling for Dick LeBeau’s induction during his hall of fame speech weeks before he was nominated by the senior committee). Despite Peter King’s recent statements to the contrary, I still believe there is strong evidence that the best way to get in the HOF (particularly for the non-slam dunk candidates) is to stay in the public eye, typically as a member of the media. Warner and T. Davis are clearly border line candidates that eventually gained traction to move away from the pack. I’m sure it didn’t hurt that both are NFL Network contributors whose colleagues regularly touted their credentials on air (and surely off air). This isn’t necessarily a bad thing. All but the most obvious candidates do need sponsors.
I know that I need everything I could to get Peter King to reevaluate Art Monk’s candidacy. I’ll never know whether it had any impact on him, but I wrote a long comparison of Monk and Tedy Bruschi after King made a comment in his MMQB column about how under appreciated Bruschi was and how he hoped he would get an opportunity to discuss his HOF candidacy some day. A couple week’s later, King announced that he was going to re-investigate Monk during his training camp tour. After doing so, King publicly announced that he would switch his vote on Monk, and Monk was elected the next February. Did I help? Maybe. But what really helped was ghat Gibbs was coaching again (the hook) and King could sit down with him and discuss Monk while on his training camp tour. Without that, I am not at all sure that Monk would be in the HOF.
Regarding this year’s senior nominees, Rick Gosselin made a strong argument on the talk of fame podcast for candidates who have never been in the room before. Given that he is one of the five rotating senior committee members who will be involved in this year’s selection, I think that bodes poorly for guys like Kramer and Kuechenberg (and maybe Shell, Greenwood, and Marshall). In fact, the duo of Pearson and Karras has Gosselin’s finger prints all over it. He is a Detroit guy who has worked professionally in Dallas for the majority of his career. in the end, I’m torn. I do believe that new names should be brought up to the committee instead of repeats. But that also means that highly qualified candidates like Kramer are left outside. I guess we’ll know soon which way the committee votes.
What makes someone all decade worthy? Why Pearson and not a Jackson in the 1970s? Why Dave Robinson but not Baughan at linebacker in the 1960s?
Also, Del Shofner was first team All Decade for the 1960s and he has better profiles than Pearson to boot.
That’s a good point on pearson and Jackson and Robinson and baughan Corey also I’m a person who thinks in some years Senior nominees should be players who were never modern era nominees
Agreed, there are some oddities on the all decade teams. Either Harold Jackson or Cliff Branch would have been better choices than Lynn Swann. The first two are actually pretty similar statswise to Harold Carmichael and Drew Pearson.
And as weak as Dave Robinson is on the all 60s team, he looks terrific to Larry Morris. Maxie Baughan and Chuck Howley should both have been on that team instead.
Jackson led the 1970s in receptions, yards and touchdowns.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t those supposed to epitomize what an All Decade team is about?
I think so Corey
Del Shofner was a five time Pro Bowler, five time First Team All Pro and a first team member of the 1960s All Decade Team.
Drew Pearson was a three time Pro Bowler, three time First Team All Pro, was a first team 1970s All Decade selection, a team Harold Jackson was absent from even though Jackson led the decade in not one, not two, but three major receiving categories.
Yet people aren’t discussing Shofner. They’re not discussing Jackson. They’re discussing Pearson. It’s not Pearson himself I have a problem with, it’s the idea that he might leapfrog others at his position, much less at other positions, who are even more qualified.
It’s like Kenny Easley last year. I have said time and time again I think Kenny Easley was worthy of enshrinement and I’m glad it happened, but if I was on the Senior Committee and I was one of the rotating members in that room last year, there is no way I would have pushed for Easley with Johnny Robinson and Eddie Meador still in the pool.
As a Bears fan, I’m all for more Hall of Famers who played for the Monsters of the Midway. So, let’s say they nominated Fortunato. You’d get no complaint from me either as a Bears fan or me thinking he is unworthy of Canton, but the Senior Committee should take care of whom I perceive to be the big four of the Senior linebackers in the pool.
It’s all about priorities, and I think the committee could do a better job on that front.
Corey: I honestly can’t say whether Jackson or Pearson was better. I only saw the tail end of their careers. But I’m not convinced by looking exclusively at stats. For example, Herman Moore twice led the league in receptions. Michael Irvin never did. In fact, the only major category that Michael Irvin ever led was receiving yards in 1991. Yet, Michael Irvin was a *much* better receiver than Herman Moore. In regards to Jackson vs. Pearson, it is notable that in two of the three seasons that Jackson led the league in a major category, his teams were awful (4-9-1 in 1969 and 2-11-1 in 1972). This doesn’t necessarily diminish what Jackson accomplished. I think the HOF has a serious problem overlooking great players on bad teams (Leslie O’Neal, Mike Kenn, Joe Klecko) … even the fact it took Cortez Kennedy and Aeneas Williams years to make it. However, it does help explain that Jackson was likely on teams who needed to pass more and thus gave him greater opportunities to pad his stats. Just as anyone who watch 1990s football understood that Irvin was better than Moore, it certainly is possible that observes from the 1970s understood that Pearson was better than Jackson. Of course, this could still mean that both should be inducted. However, the electors need to start somewhere. I try to only criticize nominees or inductees when I believe the player may be truly unworthy (Warner and Bettis are two recent examples that I am very lukewarm on), even if other guys seem like better candidates.
Justin, Harold Jackson not only led the 1970s in receiving yards, he did so by a large margin. He had 7,724 yards that decade. Ken Burrough was second with 6,343. Pearson (5,713) was fourth behind Jackson, Burrough and Carmichael. You say you don’t look at only stats, but to me, that absolutely stands out. Jackson also has a profile of 1/5 in addition to be the leading receiver of the decade.
Pearson, if you ask me, can get in line behind Howton, Shofner, Branch, Jackson and Billy Wilson.
Not to mention if nominated he wouldn’t even be the most deserving Cowboy as Chuck Howley and Cliff Harris would both be better choices.
Corey I’m on your side I’d rather see howley Harris Jordan before Pearson would you agree
Maybe Jordan too, but he needs to wait as well because he’s behind a few other linebackers.
Well spoken Corey I agree
I just found out Dave Grayson died a few weeks back. Any chance they pull a Stanfel/Stabler with him?
Will they maybe I hope not
While I doubt that they will push him to the head of the line, I definitely think Dave Grayson (6/6/allAFL) has an excellent HoF argument. His profile is very good, he gets kick return credit, and he apparently looks good on film (John Turney over at the PFRA site says this about him “A guy who stands out on film due to his speed. He and Bobby Bell just look faster than everyone else.”) One might argue that Grayson and Cliff Branch are by far the two worst Raiders HoF snubs.
Not sure I’d put him above folks like Howley, Robinson, Dilweg, Jackson, Slater, or Howton, but I think he belongs in the discussion.
Although I do not believe that Drew Pearson is the most deserving senior candidate (and perhaps not even the most deserving WR) but his selection as a member of an all decade team makes him worth consideration, especially given that the majority of other all decade team members pre 1980 have been elected and PFHOF voters (who as a group selected all decade teams) have traditionally, and even more so lately, highly valued all decade team memberships. Yes we can debate whether he should have been selected, just like we could debate many MVP, All Pro and pro bowl selections, but fact remains he was selected and is deserving of consideration. If he is selected by the seniors committee this year or in future, I would support his case, but do agree that if given a choice there are other senior candidates (he is not even on my top 20 list) including WRs and Cowboys (Howley and Harris) who should be given a chance for election first.
With only 5 voters making the decision, the selection could go a number of ways, to date the “buzz” (if it is even accurate or meaningful) seems to be circulating around Anderson, Brazile, and Kelecko. Anyone hearing names circulating as favorites this year? Announcement should be next Monday (August 21st).
I’m not saying he belongs, but how come Bob DeMarco never gets mentioned as a potential nominee? His profiles are similar to some thrown around in the pool.
Bob DeMarco- 3 pro bowls is pretty weak, doubt that there are many serious contenders in the seniors pool or discussed here that have same profile and are seriously considered. I know my list of top 10 only consists of those with a 2/3 minimum profile (and most are also all decade team members). Plenty of names often thrown around here, but considering history of those seniors nominated, plus those elected, and depth of the pool with 2/3 profile, others are real long shots.
I know Ken Riley (0/4) has his supporters here and other places, but I am not one.
Bob DeMarco’s honors are 3/3/none, which unfortunately puts him in the almost-but-not-quite area of guys like Forrest Blue (3/4/none), Jay Hilgenberg (2/7/none), Kent Hull (3/3/none), Mark Stepnoski (1/5/90s), Matt Birk (1/6/none), Olin Kreutz (2/6/00s), Jeff Van Note (0/6/none), Len Hauss (1/5/none), Jon Morris (1/7/allAFL), Bart Oates (0/5/none), Bruce Bosley (0/4/none), and Rich Saul (0/6/none). Will be very surprised if any of these folks are ever inducted.
Definitely doesn’t help him that Mick Tingelhoff (7/6/none), easily the best Senior option at the time and a contemporary of his, waited forever before finally making it in.
Paul, I have Ken Riley’s honors as 1/0/none, but otherwise am in full agreement. The only reasons anyone’s even mentioning him as HoF worthy are his large number of career INTs (playing a long time tends to help that happen) and an odd Bengals-interests pecking order in some quarters that considers him ahead of Lemar Parrish and sometimes even Kenny Anderson.
Folks who whine that he belongs in ahead of Roger Wehrli (5/7/70s) are an especially, er, let’s be kind and say puzzling bunch.
If All Decade pushes someone to the front for consideration, does Larry Morris deserve to be considered?
Larry Morris? Nope, no more than John Anderson. Those all decade teams have some odd quirks.
To be clear it is just not all decade team alone, that is one factor, but also all pro, pro bowl, and other numbers and awards. Perhaps I should have been clearer with my earlier endorsement of all decade team members. I mention Drew Pearson because his profile 3(1)/3/all decade, warrants discussion and consideration, as to others with similar profiles. I would also agree that there are some oddities on the all decade teams especially pre 1960s and not all those will ever get in the PFHOF.
Again if he is selected I would support his deserving case, but if other WRs with equal or better qualifications, or all decade team members at other positions with that profile, are selected before Pearson I would be fine. But he does deserve consideration.
There are just so many pre-1980 deserving all decade team members that it would be shame to see them continue to be passed over for others. For example I just think as deserving Anderson and Klecko are, others on all decade teams who have never had their case made have earned a chance.
This might be an unpopular opinion, but I don’t see it with Joe Klecko, especially not with more deserving Seniors who have waited longer.
id have to agree with you on klecko corey
Here are my Senior rankings.
#1 Johnny Robinson- What more can I say about him that I haven’t already said? The fact that he was a First Team All Pro, Pro Bowler and led the NFL in interceptions his first year in the league after the merger shows he was no fluke in the AFL. While he was a finalist many times three decades ago, times have changed, and the culture of the voters is different.
#2 Chuck Howley – Whatever is keeping a 5/6 linebacker out of Canton, please let me know. If it’s because the Cowboys lost in Super Bowl V, that’s ridiculous. He checks off nearly every box.
#3 Jerry Kramer – Can we just get him in, already, please? If, for nothing else, I won’t have to see people inquire about his exclusion. 3/5, All Decade, 50th Anniversary and one of most iconic moments in NFL history.
#4 Billy Howton – How many can say they retired the all time leading receiver and aren’t in Canton? The answer is one. Billy Howton was first eligible in 1969 and should’ve been inducted back in 1969.
#5 Jim Tyrer – Arguing for him a lost cause, because there’s only one reason why he’s not in, and technically that’s against the rules if you’re a voter. Either change the rules or admit you’re cherry picking.
#6 Maxie Baughan – A 2/9 profile speaks for itself, and in case it doesn’t, he made an impact out of the gate and not only has he been snubbed out of Canton, he was snubbed from the 1960s All Decade Team.
#7 Randy Gradishar – With a 2/7 profile and Defensive Player of the Year, he is easily qualified. Linebacker has a massive logjam in this pool and I hope they will soon correct such an egregious error.
#8 Del Shofner – A dangerous weapon who has the profiles and the All Decade selection. Maybe it’s because the Giants didn’t win an NFL Championship when he was there, but that’s a lot he accomplished in a career shortened due to injuries.
#9 Al Wistert – I think he had the misfortune of playing most of his career prior to the inception of the Pro Bowl. He was still a four time First Team All Pro and one of the best players not in Canton.
#10 Robert Brazile – The man known as Dr. Doom racked up a 2/7 profile, won Defensive Player of the Year and was on the 1970s All Decade Team. If it’s true he’s seriously being considered then he would be the best nominee since Tingelhoff, assuming any of the nine ahead of him on my list are not nominated.
#11 Bobby Dillon – 4/4, somehow was not on the 1950s All Decade Team, grabbed 52 career interceptions and only had one eye on top of that. How is he not in?
#12 Eddie Meador – All Decade, 2/6, was a complete force on defense. He is one of many getting up there in years, and it’s time he got his due.
#13 Cliff Branch – Anybody possibly considering Drew Pearson should first know that there’s a wideout who wore silver and black his entire career and put up better numbers with a similar profile. They made an excellent choice nominating Ray Guy, not so much in nominating Ken Stabler. Cliff Branch would be more of a Ray Guy than a Ken Stabler in regards to selection quality.
#14 Harold Jackson – He’s really grown on me. This man was the leading receiver of the 1970s, yet was somehow excluded from the All Decade Team. 10,000 yards may be a common occurrence now. The same could not be said when Harold Jackson played. The fact Lynn Swann is in while Cliff Branch and Harold Jackson are on the outside looking in is an injustice.
#15 Cliff Harris – 3/6, All Decade, was a big part of the Cowboys success. If you’re trying to figure out why he is not yet in, so am I.
#16 Ed Budde – Despite a ton of Chiefs residing in Canton, Budde is one of the better offensive linemen not in. He’s another one with a nice profile, 2/7, who had been negated. Somehow Curley Culp got in while Johnny Robinson and Ed Budde are still waiting. It’s not right.
#17 Jimmy Patton – 5/5, 52 interceptions. This is one posthumous nomination that should happen. He’s one of many safeties overlooked by the committee.
#18 Walt Sweeney – Here’s another one punished for playing in the AFL. He had the equivalent of a 2/9 profile in between both leagues. He most likely would’ve been in had he spent his whole career in the NFL.
#19 Dick Schafrath – He was a 4/6 offensive lineman, arguably an All Decade snub and for all the woes the Browns have had, they’ve enjoyed some great offensive linemen. Schafrath was one of them. Mike McCormack is in. Gene Hickerson is in. Frank Gatski is in. Bill Willis is in. One day Joe Thomas will be in, and I’m hoping one day Dick Schafrath will also be in.
#20 Dave Grayson – It would be disrespectful to nominate him after he just passed away, but you can’t say he is unworthy with a 4/6 profile between the AFL and NFL. Safety is a deep position in the Senior pool. Grayson is one of many who is worthy.
#21 Deron Cherry – I’m not too fond of nominating newer Seniors, but at a 3/6 profile and All Decade selection, it’s tough to say Cherry doesn’t belong.
#22 Jim Bakken – If you make two All Decade Teams, you tend to be a lock for Canton, unless you’re a kicker. Stenerud, Guy and Andersen were all special team era who got elected. Bakken would be a worthy choice.
#23 Billy a Wilson – This man was an outstanding receiver in his day and was often a leading one, too. With a 1/6 profile, he could be more impressive on that front, but he was undoubtedly fantastic at what he did.
24 Charley Hennigan – He had a short, but impactful career. Only Billy Shaw can say he’s been inducted without playing a down in the NFL. Hennigan would be a nice second.
#25 George Kunz – With a 1/8 profile, he has slipped through the cracks. While he is not like Kramer, Tyrer or Wistert, he’s been overlooked and would make a fine addition to the Hall of Fame.
I could probably keep going. I’ll stop there
I would be pretty happy with Alex Karras as one of the nominees as I think he’s the top DT in the senior pool that isn’t in the Hall.
I would be okay with Drew Pearson getting nominated – he certainly belongs in the conversation, but it would be an underwhelming choice. I really think Del Shofner is the best WR in the Senior pool and would rather see him get recognized before anyone else at the position. Joe Klecko would probably elicit the same reaction from me as Pearson. He’s a top 5 “snub” at his position, but not a glaring omission in my opinion.
If the hall truly is locked in on all-decade team members that haven’t been “in the room” before, the likeliest candidates (in addition to Pearson and Karras) would probably be Robert Brazile, Eddie Meador and Tommy Nobis. I think any of those 3 would make a solid nomination, though I also wouldn’t mind fellow all-decade team members L.C. Greenwood, Lester Hayes or Jerry Kramer getting another look.
When all is said and done, my top 3 senior candidates remain Jerry Kramer, Johnny Robinson and Chuck Howley, but if I had to make a realistic prediction, I’d go with L.C. Greenwood and Tommy Nobis getting nominated this year.
agreed bslo i like the greenwood/nobis ticket
I have almost given up on L.C. Greenwood getting in because of the amount of Steelers from that era but I truly believe that you could put three more in with Donnie Shell and Andy Russell added to Greenwood. Also I do believe that you will see at least one defensive player of the two. I’m betting it will be either Johnny Robinson or Robert Brazille.
Decided to look again at was a “top 50 Seniors” list. Have expanded to a top 70 and tweaked it a little. Or at least that’s how I feel today about it:
1-10: Lavvie Dilweg, Al Wistert, Duke Slater, Johnny Robinson, Chuck Howley, Billy Howton, Maxie Baughan, Harold Jackson, Jerry Kramer, Ken Anderson.
11-20: Robert Brazile, Randy Gradishar, Verne Lewellen, Jim Tyrer, Lemar Parrish, Jimmy Patton, Walt Sweeney, Cliff Harris, Ox Emerson, Del Shofner.
21-30: Riley Matheson, Dick Barwegen, Alex Karras, Winston Hill, Jim Ray Smith, Mac Speedie, Dave Grayson, Cliff Branch, Tommy Davis, Drew Pearson.
31-40: Bobby Dillon, Gene Brito, Bobby Boyd, Billy Wilson, Eddie Meador, Harold Carmichael, Duane Putnam, Joe Fortunato, Deron Cherry, L.C. Greenwood.
41-50: Bill Forester, Joe Klecko, Ed Budde, Abe Woodson, Joey Browner, George Kunz, Larry Grantham, Tom Sestak, Mark Gastineau, Houston Antwine.
51-60: Earl Faison, Bill Bergey, Pete Retzlaff, Lester Hayes, Art Powell, George Christensen, Jerry Smith, Donnie Shell, Mike Stratton, Gene Lipscomb.
61-70: Ken Gray, Lionel Taylor, Gale Gillingham, Roger Brown, Louis Wright, Marvin Powell, John Niland, Todd Christensen, Tommy Nobis, Lee Roy Jordan.
Nobis was 1/5, Greenwood 2/6 profiles.
There are others out there was better profiles who were also All Decade and in the case of Gradishar, Defensive Player of the Year.
Nobis and Greenwood can wait. You cannot tell me Tommy Nobis would be a better choice than Chuck Howley or Maxie Baughan.
My predictions aren’t based on who is the most worthy – simply who I think the nominating committee might go for.
I don’t think that Nobis is the best choice at linebacker. He wouldn’t make my top 5 at the position. Greenwood is in my opinion the biggest snub at DE in the senior pool, but overall I would probably only out him around 20th.
Agreed, Tommy Nobis (2/5/60s) and Lee Roy Jordan (2/5/none) are well down on my LB list. In fact, I’d likely rank Bill Bergey (4/5/none) ahead of them for MLB types. Not to mention Karl Mecklenberg (4/6/none) when he likely drops into the Senior pool.
For Senior DEs, I’d probably rank Gene Brito (4/5/none) ahead of L.C. Greenwood (2/6/70s), Mark Gastineau (4/5/none), and Earl Faison (4/5/none).
Good discussion folks, I guess we will find out next Monday
It was nice to see some names up there Like Bill Bergey, Winston Hill, Lee Roy Jordan, Gene Brito and Houston Antwine. Mike Curtis should be added to those lists as well. I would put Mike Curtis in the top five Lb’s not yet inducted into the Hall of Fame
If Curtisis fifth, he’s a distant fifth, in my opinion.
id have to agree with corey once again my top lb seniors in no part order are howley baughan brazile nobis curtis Jordan russell what do you think og my list corey
I would ask you your reasoning behind Randy Gradishar not being top seven.
ok redo howley baughan gradishar brazile nobis curtis jordan russell and i had forgot about grad
#1 Howley
#2 Baughan
#3 Gradishar
#4 Brazile
#5 Russell
#6 Nobis
#7 Curtis
#8 Jordan
good solid list and a list i can agree with
Extracting LBs from my list above, I’d rank them:
Chuck Howley (5/6/none)
Maxie Baughan (5/9/none)
Robert Brazile (5/7/70s)
Randy Gradishar (4/7/none)
Joe Fortunato (3/5/50s)
Bill Forester (4/4/none)
Larry Grantham (5/5/allAFL)
Bill Bergey (4/5/none)
Mike Stratton (4/6/allAFL)
Tommy Nobis (2/5/60s)
Lee Roy Jordan (2/5/none)
Am assuming Karl Mecklenburg (4/6/none) will also fall into the Senior pool in two years, so he’d fit in here somewhere, likely someplace between Gradishar and Grantham.
That leaves Mike Curtis (2/4/none) and Andy Russell (1/7/none) after these folks for me. Fine players, though.
Man, talk about fierce competition….
That list just go’s to show you that their is an incredible amount of Hall of Fame worthy players still to be considered. Players Like Larry Grantham, Bill Bergey, George Kunz and Houston Antwine were great players in their era and they won’t even get a sniff any time soon of a nomination in my estimation.
Just somebody good, please. No underwhelming choices this year.
agreed with corey please no underwhelming choices this year please
I asked Clark Judge on twitter who could possibly be the senior finalists and he said Jerry Kramer, Johnny Robinson, Robert Brazile and Drew Pearson.
Any of those three, except Pearson, would be acceptable to me. However, Judge is not on the Senior Committee and merely a writer for Talk of Fame. I’m hoping this year will be the last I have to worry about Johnny Robinson, but Kramer and Brazile are also on my top 10
list of biggest Senior snubs from Canton. So I’d take it. We need more Hanburgers and Tingelhoffs with less Stablers and Dave Robinsons.
With only 4 voters in the room making the final selection it is hard to predict the outcome of the seniors selection, Clark Judge may not be a voter but he works closely with some who are and would at least have a pulse of buzz around certain candidates-at least that has been the case in recent years. I am not saying Kramer, Robinson, Brazile or Pearson are getting selected on Monday but they are all clearly in the mix and at least for Kramer, Robinson and Brazile there names have been floating as possibilities in recent years.
Sorry only 5 voters in the room…
Who is the most Underrated or Longshot senior nomination that would still make you happy if they were nominated. Mine would be Houston Antwine and Bob Kuenchenberg
Jerry Smith
Fortunato or Bakken
Larry Grantham
Jerrel Wilson and Jim bakken
Drew Pearson
I agree with all of the people saying Jim Bakken. I’d be thrilled to see him nominated as he was on 2 all-decade teams. Would also be beyond thrilled to see either Patton and DIllon nominated among the long tenured senior members.
Among newer entries to the senior pool, it pains me to say this as a Chiefs fan. but I would probably say Todd Christensen. I was always surprised he never made it to the semi-finalist list in the modern era vote.
I think we need a poll to decide the 2017 zoneblitz senior nominees
Todd Christensen would be a good nominee as a longshot. My final guess at who the 2017 senior nominees will be are: Drew Pearson and Alex Karras
if they went with alex karras as one of the nominees id be ok with it
I’m thinking Brazile and Klecko, though I hope I’m wrong on Klecko.
If a deceased person does get nominated, I’d rather it be Wister or Patton. Wister should’ve been inducted sometime in the ’60s or ’70s. Patton has been gone for more than 40 years, so that way you can’t say it’s a matter of somebody just getting it because they passed away.
So while Grayson has solid credentials, don’t spit on his grave by nominating him after he passed because you know very well he wouldn’t have gotten it if he was still alive.
Sometimes the Senior Committee frustrates as much, if not more than the BBWAA, and the Veterans’ Committee in baseball is a death sentence for all living players. At least the Senior Committee does correct some mistakes. That’s what I’m not as worried about the modern era. It’s a mess that will fix itself out over time. The Senior Committee has fewer slots, rotates every other year and has too many qualified candidates with many not having a ton of days ahead of them.
I feel like one of the two senior nominees might be deceased unfortunately just because it speeds up the actual ceremony. The Hall of Fame inductions take forever!
Wouldn’t that be terrible?
Isn’t today the big day?
yep my understanding is that the seniors selection committee is meeting at the PFHOF today, look for press release on their 2 recommended senior candidates sometime this afternoon. And I believe the contributors committee meeting is on Friday this week.
It’s on Thursday.
Clark Hudge says the PFHOF have discussed the possibility of an expanded Senior Class for the NFL centenary in 2020.
http://www.talkoffamenetwork.com/seniors-hall-nfls-100th-year-happen/
Rob is seniors selection meeting on Thursday?
*Judge
Rob is seniors selection meeting on Thursday?
I think the 100 yr idea for enshrinement of larger group of senior candidates is a great one (I made a similar suggestion a few years ago for the 50th anniversary of the PFHOF celebration). One from each decade would be fantastic, two even better.
@ Paul Yes
Not only is 10 seniors a great idea, I think it’s an absolute necessity.
agreed on that heres something to look at how would you rank art powell cliff branch preston pearson harold carmichael
I take it you mean Drew Pearson? Preston Pearson is nowhere near Canton.
#1 Branch
#2 Pearson
#3 Powell
#4 Carmichael
yes i mean drew pearson not preston or barry
I would go 1. Pearson 2. Branch 3. Carmichael 4. Powell I also like Morgan and Howton in this group as well
I think it would be a great idea to have a larger senior class for the 100th anniversary. I like Paul’s idea of 1 or 2 per decade.
On a side note. Anquan Boldin announced his retirement. I would say that that probably closes the book on his HOF chances, as he was going to need to pad his stats a bit more to be considered as a compiler.
BLSO, agreed re Anquan Boldin. Had he played two more mediocre seasons, he could have reasonably added 30 catches, 1300 yards, and 18 TDs to his compiling numbers, which would have moved him to 4th, 6th, and 9th respectively all time. As it is, he’s retiring 9th in catches, 14th in receiving yards, and 23rd in receiving TDs (and those numbers will probably drop over the next five years before he’s eligible). His honors of 0/3/none aren’t earth shattering either.
Definite HoVG type, but not likely HoF.
http://www.patriots.com/news/2017/08/21/robert-krafts-hall-fame-candidacy-what-will-happen-fridays-vote
Rob: thanks as story makes for an interesting read, I always thought Bowlen was a slam duck, but I can see the line of thinking that in recent elections owners have dominated the selection and can see a possible swing back to the GM types-seems if that was the case George Young is a strong contender. But as noted it only takes 3 out of 5 votes to make the selection so process and outcome on Friday could still be surprising. Also interesting to read that 2020 could be opened more for contributors as well as seniors, guessing that when the current PFHOF Board bylaw was changed to the 2-1 alternating slots for contributors and seniors which ends with 2019 election was intended to keep open other changes for 2020 and then beyond in terms of election slots.
I’m not sure how you have a special contributors if you fail to elect Gil Brandt and Bobby Beathard.
For me at least, there aren’t many must-induct owners in the Contributor pool. At present, I’d rank them more or less as follows:
Ralph Hay
Robert Kraft
Art Modell
Pat Bowlen
Bud Adams
Jack Kent Cooke
Clint Murchison
Carrol Rosenbloom
However, one could easily justify Hay and Kraft as the only two really significant snubs on this list. I can see arguments for Modell, Bowlen, and Adams, but it won’t bother me terribly if none of them get in. Not very taken with the other three.
But in terms of pecking order for Contributors, I’d probably rank them:
Bobby Beathard
George Young
Art McNally
Steve Sabol
Gil Brandt
Ralph Hay
Robert Kraft
Bucko Kilroy
Paul Tagliabue
Art Modell
Pat Bowlen
Bud Adams
The dividing line for “musts” for me is between Kraft and Kilroy. From Kilroy on down, these are folks I’m okay with electing but won’t consider it an injustice if they’re left out.
FWIW, I think Ron Wolf, Bill Polian, and Jerry Jones were all deserving, and Ed DeBartolo was not.
There is one contributor slot for 2018 and will be two more in 2019, and then open(??) in 2020, so looks like regardless of the order several contributors will be elected in next three years. Lets assume 2020 ends up being 5 contributors, the 2018-2020 total would be 8, and my list (in any order) would be:
Bobby Beathard
George Young
Art McNally
Steve Sabol
Gil Brandt
Robert Kraft
Paul Tagliabue
Pat Bowlen
I think they will pick an GM/Executive Guy in Bobby Beathard for Contributor’s. If it’s an owner it will be Pat Bowlen.
Beathard told Jack Kent Cooke he hired Joe Gibbs. Cooke asked who Joe Gibbs was. Cooke wanted to fire both after an 0-5 start.
Then Beathard wanted to draft Darrell Green, and did. Richie Petitbon told Beathard no one that small could play in the NFL.
Both Gibbs and Green have a gold jacket and a bust. It’s time to give both of those things to the man who brought them to Washington.
so who are our final picks for senior noms tomorrow
I’ll go Klecko and Pearson. I’m not going to get my hopes up for someone I really want.
id be ok with klecko and pearson id be even more happier if it was brazile and robinson
I’m guessing Alex Kerras and Drew Pearson although I want Jerry Kramer and Johnny Robinson.
I can’t hold out hope for Robinson anymore. It’s evident there are a lot of deserving players in the pool and many of whom I’d be very happy if they selected, but I am dead set in the belief not one Senior deserves it more than Johnny Robinson. Gosselin is a rotating member this year and hopes it’s Robinson’s year. Let’s hope he’s right.
Klecko and Kerras
I’m predicting Pearson and Karras but would love it if it were some combination of Howley, Kramer or Robinson. I believe those three are the biggest omissions.
Carl Ellet and Art Shell are the senior advisors
Since I never seem to predict seniors correctly, I am going to stick with a “pick two random guys” approach and go with L.C. Greenwood and Tommy Nobis
Pearson, Anderson and Karras can all wait. As far as I’m concerned, Kleckon can permanently wait. Somebody good, please.
While there is not a ton of evidence that I am aware of, one would assume that Carl Eller’s participation would assist Jim Marshall. Art Shell could help Cliff Branch. Besides teammates, you would think that the advisors help players that played the same position or directly opposed (OL help DL) because they can speak authoritatively on the subject. Specifically, we know that Jack Hamm greatly helped Chris Hanburger by telling the committee that his coaches recommended that he watch and imitate Hanburger’s play.
NFL Network has now ranked Jim Marshall second to Jerry Kramer on its top ten players not in Canton list, and that’s just wrong.
Agreed, Corey. Have seen that “top ten” show on the NFL Network before, and the list is laughable. Marshall’s appearance on their list, never mind at no. 2, is Exhibit A of their cluelessness.
Usually it has been a mix of recent eligibles who get in within a couple years of the show’s airing (Tim Brown, Andre Reed, Cris Carter, Derrick Thomas, etc. — hardly what I’d consider true snubs), a few decent Senior options like Kramer, Alex Karras, and Ken Anderson, and major head-scratchers like Marshall, Steve Tasker, and Rickey Watters. Ken Stabler was on this list also until he got in a couple years ago.
John Turney of PFRA said his best guess for the Seniors are Robert Brazile and Jerry Kramer.
I’d have no complaints if Brazile and Kramer were the nominees.
What time do they usually make the announcement?
I don’t know, and I’m waiting on pins and needles.
Corey,
I usually don’t for put any stock into the NFL Network’s top 10 lists for a couple reasons.
I think the nature of the top 10’s is based on shock value in some case or the popularity of the player in question.
Hopefully it’s in the next hour or two.
Jerry Kramer and Robert Brazile has been announced as the two senior committee candidates.
Great choices. A+ to both.
Wow. Two outstanding selections! This does seem to support the narrative that they are focusing on All-Decade members in the senior committee.
Yes both good solid choices and starts to clear the senior field in for 2020 and potential other multiple all decade team members
Kramer is a great choice and Brazille is really solid. Super psyched for both of these guys. Now they need to be voted in. the Bad news is that Howley and Robinson have to wait longer. Hopefully not too long!
At this point a large seniors nomination in 2020 is likely only way Howley and Robinson get in
Howley or Robinson might get it in 2019. I’m not worried. It seems inevitable, especially for the latter.
Fantastic job by the committee. Best choices since Tingelhoff and best duo since Hanburger/Richter. I was so worried about a whimper that I am pleasantly surprised.
Both are A+ choices in my book and helps with the linebacker logjam.
I concur with Corey excellent choices
Rasputin is not going to be happy Howley was passed up for Brazile. I’m not going to complain about either choice even if I had others higher on my list. There’s not many in the pool who were better than either, in my opinion.
Kramer will be 82 in 2018. May he finally be enshrined.
Now, if it was Klecko, Pearson, Karras, one of them, I’d have been disappointed. Since it’s Kramer and Brazile, I’m not.
Peter King is against Kramer. Let’s hope both crack 80% on February 3rd.
We know Rasputin is not happy about this, especially since Howley was passed over for another linebacker.
I won’t complain. Even if I had others higher on my list, both were in my top ten. Kramer will be 82 in 2018. May this finally be the year he cracks 80%.
Peter King is against Kramer. Hopefully he doesn’t have that much clout.
I’d have been disappointed if Klecko/Pearson/Karras/Anderson had been nominated today. These two are the complete opposite of a disappointment.
Yeah Corey he’s pitching a fit I imagine
Yup, Rasputin won’t be happy about Brazile over Howley. And in an absolute ranking of Senior OLBs, I’d have Howley no. 1 and Brazile no. 3 on the depth chart. Plus Howley is 81 and Brazile is 64, so time’s running shorter for the former. Rasputin has a point, and I get it.
But given the Senior committee track record, this is a fine pair of choices. We could have had Jim Marshall and Andy Russell nominated instead. I’m not complaining.
My ranking of the next ten that need to get in
1. Chuch Howley LB
2. Johnny Robinson S
3. Cliff Harris S
4. Randy Graishar LB
5. Eddie Meador S
6. Cliff Branch WR
7. L. C. Greenwood DE
8. Maxie Baughan LB
9. Lester Hayes CB
10 Walt Sweeney G
Can we start ranking the 2018 class? Here is my list of the 25 semifinalist.- This is the order in which I would rank them but it is not my prediction.
1. Ray Lewis LB
2. Randy Moss WR
3. Terrell Owens WR
4. Brian Urlacher LB
5. John Lynch S
6. Brian Dawkins S
7. Alan Faneca G
8. Joe Jacoby T
9. Ty Law CB
10. Steve Hutchinson G
11. Kevin Mawae C
12. Tony Boselli T
13. Roger Craig RB
14. Karl Mecklenburg LB
15. Isaac Bruce WR
16. Torry Holt WR
17. Edgerrin James RB
18 Richard Seymour DE
19. Darren Woodson S
20. Rhonde Barber CB
21. Mike Kenn T
22. Jimmy Johnson Coach
23. Steve Atwater S
24. Don Coryell Coach
25. Chris Hinton T
2018 modern candidate preliminary list released tonight at 8p
I really like seeing the list. It makes me feel old(I don’t like that part though). To think players are 5 years removed from playing and are now eligible for the HOF. I just like seeing borderline HOFers. I hope to see Corey Dillon someday on the list. It’s strange he has yet made the ballot. He was easily the 2nd most important offensive player on the Patriots 3rd title team. And his career stats were pretty good. Wonder why he has never made it.
Finally Corey made it! But, how is Steve Smith on the list? Unless it’s a typo.
I know a bunch of names will never get in and they are just filler names, but Ferrell Edmunds? 2x PBer, 148 receptions, 1,894 yards, and 12 TDs is ballot worthy? I wasn’t really alive when he played(born in 1991). Was he that great of a blocking TE?
What is Steve Smith doing on the list? He only retired a few months ago.
Pleased to see some names I’ve mentioned previously as snubs get their due. Corey Dillon, Richmond Webb, Leslie O’Neal, Simeon Rice, Neil Smith.
I had to laugh at the Edmunds nomination. That must be the worst I’ve ever seen.
There was a Steve Smith who played WR for the Giants after a career at USC. He played 6 seasons in the NFL and made one Pro Bowl in 2009. It must be him they’ve nominated as he retired following the 2012 season which would make him a first year eligible. The problem is he scored 12 TDs in his illustrious 6 season career. Seven of those scores came in his one season of note.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitSt02.htm
Apparently he deserves a nomination ahead of Irving Fryar, Derrick Mason, Keenan McCardell and Muhsin Mohammed, who are all in the Top 30 for career receptions. None of those four will get a sniff of Canton but at least had long and productive careers. The Smith nomination is a joke.
Yeah, I thought of him too. But, I hope it was just a mistake. But, with Edmunds on the ballot, won’t put it past them.
It is Steve Smith Giants. I looked at their Facebook video of all the players nominated and it was him. What a joke.
Someone can correct me if am wrong but it is my understanding that anyone can nominate a candidate for the preliminary modern candidate list (which is why it is often 100 names+), as long as they are eligible. PFHOF Board, staff or the selection committee do not review or refine that list. As a result every year there are odd surprises of who is listed, including those clearly not competitive or deserving for consideration, and often who is not on the list. I think if anyone wants to have Irving Fryar, Derrick Mason, Keenan McCardell or Muhsin Mohammed appear on the 2019 list they can simply write to the PFHOF with that nomination next year.
Paul: that’s true in theory, but from my experience doing such a nomination doesn’t always produce results. I wrote a few times several years ago with a nominee list, and some folks I listed simply didn’t show up on the preliminary list — so I gave up.
Bachs:
I seem to remember you mentioning here before you wrote in for Gastineau but he wasn’t listed.
I wrote in Stanley Morgan for years and he hardly ever showed up. Ironically I wrote in Richmond Webb four years in a row, he was not put on so I stopped. Then I saw his name this year….go figure.
Bachslunch, curious why Bud Adams is on your contibutor owners list but no Joe Robby who got an expansion team to the Playoffs in less than 5 years and to 3 straight SB’s and 5 overall winning 2 of them? Best move he ever did was getting Don Shula away from Baltimore. Owner of a “perfect season” and a beautiful stadium at the time that was all privately paid for which is unheard of today. You know I have to stick up for my Dolphins.
Robbie, I knew that! :)
I’d sooner have Bud Adams in the HoF instead of Joe Robbie because of his being a successful flagship AFL owner. Adams’s case is similar to Ralph Wilson’s in some ways, though h8s teams weren’t quite as good.
Robbie for me would be about level with folks like Jack Kent Cooke and Clint Murchison, though he has fewertitles than either.
But truth be told, I’m thinking both Robert Kraft and Ralph Hay are more deserving than any of them.
Was Weds Nov 16th last year, so we should look for PFHOF announcement of 2018 semi-finalists (25) around Nov 15th this year-next Weds? Nothing official in terms of dates listed on PFHOF website (they usually do not have dates in advance of any election news), but is a fair guess if only based on years past.
2018 PFHOF 25 semi-finalists to be announced on NFL Network show, Tuesday November 21st at 8pm.
My best “guess” as to 25 semi-finalists, every year including this one I fell pretty good about 20-22 of them, last few are always the hardest-trying to identify new additions who are not clearly 1st year candidates to replace 5 slots open following 2017 election.
Steve Atwater
Ronde Barber
Tony Boselli
Isaac Bruce
Don Coryell
Roger Craig
Brian Dawkins
Alan Faneca
Rodney Harrison
Torry Holt
Steve Hutchinson
Edgerrin James
Joe Jacoby
Jimmy Johnson
Ty Law
Ray Lewis
John Lynch
Clay Matthews
Kevin Mawae
Karl Mecklenburg
Randy Moss
Terrell Owens
Brian Urlacker
Hines Ward
Darren Woodson
No Zach Thomas? He is well overdue.
I would support (and not be surprised) if Zack Thomas appears in the semi-finalist list, he is deserving. Would be pretty easy of me to remove Matthews and replace with Thomas-although I doubt either get any further in the election process in 2018. The last 3-5 slots on this list are always a bit of a guess and really not significant since none are getting in.
Do you think Zach gets elected to the HOF on the modern ballot?
Yes I do and would not be surprised to start seeing him appear on the semi-finalist list and make moves up the election process in the next few years.
Larry Fitzgerald is expected to sign a contract extension for 1 year. He is under contract through 2018. If he plays through 2019 and retires he’ll be eligible for HOF in 2025. By then a ton of big names will be off and not a whole lot of big names will be on the ballot (Assuming guys like Brady, Brees, Eli , Big Ben, and Rivers are going to play through 2020). I think he gets in first ballot as is, but would not be surprised if waits a year because no other WR has been inducted into the HOF this century on first time around not named Jerry Rice. This also could bode well for those who are about to be off the ballot such as Steve Atwater and Darren Woodson. Larry is a sure shot finalist first time around and so this allows them to sneak in the HOF towards the end of their eligibility. Otherwise Larry would lock up one of the final spots. I honestly hope Larry plays for at least 3-4 more seasons. He’s on pace for over 100 receptions this year. Let’s say he gets 95 this year and then averages 85 for next 3 seasons, he’d be at 1,1475, which is close to Rice’s 1,549. He could get to Rice’s all time receptions mark if he can keep up this pace for next 3-4 seasons. We shall see how it plays out. But, this signing will help his case just from the stand point of padding his stats. And also helps out those who are getting close to the end of their time on the modern era ballot(That’s if he plays through his contract).
Here is my Best guess on the 25 players tomorrow night
1. Ray Lewis
2. Alan Faneca
3. Terrell Owens
4. Randy Moss
5. Roger Craig
6. Brian Urlacher
6. Brian Dawkins
7. Steve Atwater
8. Ty Law
9. Joe Jacoby
10. John Lynch
11. Zach Thomas
12. Don Coryell
13. Rhnode Barber
14. Isaac Bruce
15. Tony Boselli
16. Kevin Mawae
17. Torry Holt
18. Karl Mecklinburg
19. Steve Hutchinson
20 Jimmy Johnson
21 Hines Ward
22. Richard Seymour
23. Darren Woodson
24. Edgerrin James
25. Richmond Webb
Hi Bill
You have 26 players listed there. There are two number 6s on the list. Who do you drop and who just missed out?
Chris Hinton and Mike Kenn were semi finalists last time so I think the addition of Webb (finally) might cancel all three of them out. I agree with Thomas over Matthews. I also notice you had Seymour instead of Harrison from Paul’s list, two Patriots from the early years of their dynasty.
This is also Roger Craig’s last time on the modern era ballot so there should be at least six new spaces available next year for the Top 25 (assuming we get a full modern era class of 5 and Craig doesn’t get elected). Tony Gonzalez, Ed Reed and Champ Bailey will grab three of those spots so that could open the door for Z.Thomas and Webb in 2019.
I would take out Jimmy Johnson, Coryell, Webb, Z Thomas, Holt, Mecklinburg and Boselli. Add Neil Smith, LeRoy Butler and Corey Dillion.
you only replaced 3 tony p you need 3 more replacements other than that i agree with smith butler and dillon
Should say, that was a good list you came up with Bill. I can add Steve Wisniewski and Sterling Sharpe. Has their ever been a WR who didn’t have a full career make the HOF? I’ve got a soft spot Texas alum Casey Hampton who was a star NT on a Steelers SB team. He had the misfortune of having his career overlaping Vince Wilfork.
I think Curly Culp is the only NT in the HOF? I wish a couple more NT’s would make the HOF but it’s not a showy position with the stats but oh so important if you have a great one. A good question would be how many truly great 3-4 defenses have their been in the NFL. The Houston Oilers of the mid to late 70’s were really good with Culp, Bethea and Brazile. The Dolphins Killer B’s in the early 80’s with Baumhower, Betters, Bokamper, Brudzinski and the Blackwood brothers went to two Super Bowls. Didn’t the 49ers run a 3-4 with NT Jerry Ball?
I would probably guess the same players as Paul, but with Seymour instead of Harrison. Seymour is the best DL candidate in the modern pool even as a first-year eligible, and I would be surprised if he didn’t get included on the semi-finalist list.
I think that what Boknows34 said about Zach Thomas is bang on. His best chance to break through to the semis is next season, when there could be as many as 7 open slots (depending on the fate of Jacoby and Craig), and only 3 likely first-time candidates (Bailey, Reed and Gonzalez). With Mecklenberg and Kenn also falling off the year after that, there should be some openings for previously snubbed modern era players (or coaches) to make the jump to the semis list over the next 2 years.
The first-ballot class is stacked this year though with 6 great players, so opportunities will be limited this time around.
It seems as if Steve Tasker’s chances have been over for years. I consider him a HOFer. He is perhaps the best gunners ever. It’s a shame he will be thrown into the Senior Pool. Robert, I agree that Corey Dillon could make the list this year. Now, I wish Shaun Alexander would get some love. He is borderline HOF to me. Very disappointed he didn’t make the ballot this year.
You are right about my list having 26 players. As much as I feel Richmond Webb is a borderline hall of famer I would knock him off. it was hard leaving off Mike Kenn, Corey Dillon, Rodney Harrison and leslie O’Neal
I don’t think the majority of PFHOF voters would consider a full time special team player, keeping in mind to date there is only one pure punter and only two pure kickers in the PFHOF and no career leaders in punt or kickoff returns. I am not so sure Tasker will ever get elected, he is likely heading into the seniors pool where he will never get out in front of all decade, all pro, and SB winners in there in already.
Not sure why the love for Corey Dillon (0/4/SB), especially over Shaun Alexander (2/3/MVP/All Decade). I think both are in for a long wait due to low career rushing yards (Dillon 20th, Alexander 36th) but surely Alexanders season and career awards would place him before Dillon?
I like how incredibly hard Dillion ran for a bad team and than when he got his chance with New England he proved what a great player he was by having his best season at 30 years old and was a key member to winning a Super Bowl.
Dillon. :)
here we go with the nitpicking again paul why must you nitpick i hate that
Alexander had a great OL in Seattle for his whole career. His 27 tds in 2005 weren’t because he was the best RB ever. He was a great RB in space but wouldn’t of thrived in Cinncy like Dillon. I’d put both in the HOF.
Here is the list
Steve Atwater
Ronde Barber
Tony Boselli
Isaac Bruce
LeRoy Butler
Don Coryell
Roger Craig
Brian Dawkins
Alan Faneca
Torry Holt
Steve Hutchinson
Joe Jacoby
Edgerrin James
Jimmy Johnson
Ty Law
Ray Lewis
John Lynch
Kevin Mawae
Karl Mecklenburg
Randy Moss
Leslie O’Neal
Terrell Owens
Simeon Rice
Richard Seymour
Brian Urlacher
Everson Walls
Hines Ward
I actually like it. Disappointed Zach Thomas didn’t make it. Glad to see Simeon Rice on it. He was at the time the 2nd fastest to 100 career sacks, behind Reggie White. Looks like voters may pass up Darren Woodson for HOF enshrinement as a modern era candidate, which is a shame. Leslie O’Neal making it is good as well. He is definitely borderline HOF. His career sacks might get him in someday. I want to know everyone’s thoughts on the list.
I love the list. As Judge noted, this is the first time in years that the defensive players outnumber the offensive. In fact in recent years the numbers have been screwed heavily offensive. It is also nice to see guys like Rice and O’Neal get rewarded. In fact, I currently think the five moderns ultimately elected could include 3-4 defensive guys: Lewis is a lock, Dawkins has to be one of the strongest returning candidates, Law was a top ten guy last year, and Seymour could have strong support as well. That would be a fantastic modern class. I’ll also be pulling for Jacoby as a Redskins fan. But given the strength of the defensive guys plus the Moss / Owens issue, I tend to think Jacoby will miss out.
In sum, I think the committee did a great job with the semi-finalists. Look forward to the next cutdown.
Post up here, for what it’s worth: https://www.zoneblitz.com/2017/11/21/moss-lewis-urlacher-headline-hall-fame-semifinalist-candidates/
Solid list from my perspective. I don’t see anyone predicting Everson Walls — that’s the surprise to me.
I actually thought Walls was now part of the Seniors pool so had to double check and his final season was with the Browns in 1993, so this will be his final year on the ballot with Craig and Jacoby.
Walls is a three-time All Pro who led the NFL in interceptions three times, the only other player ever to achieve that is Ed Reed. His 11 picks in his rookie season of 1981 hasn’t been matched since and he finished with 57 career picks.
The DBs are really deep with Darren Woodson falling off from last year and LeRoy Butler taking the next step. We really need to start seeing one or two gain election each year to help clear the backlog as next year sees the addition of Reed and Bailey with Polamalu (2020), C.Woodson (2021) and Revis (2022) to follow.
Dawkins, Lynch, Law (2017) and Atwater (2016) have all been finalists previously.
Agree Brad, can’t see how Woodson’s greatness is being missed. He definitely passes the eye test and has an impressive record of accolades. I see that his tackles and int’s are somewhat low. Maybe playing for a great Defense is holding him back?
I agree Woodson should be a HOFer, but he has the same problem that Atwater and to a lesser extent Lynch have, they simply weren’t as good as the members of the golden era of safeties: Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu, Brian Dawkins, and Sean Taylor were all more impactful players than all of the safeties of the 1990s and early 2000s. Even Bob Sanders when healthy for that one glorious year was better. Part of this has nothing to do with either Atwater or Woodson’s ability. It is simply the difference in how the game was played. As passing attacks increased, safeties necessarily became more important players. Their impacts on the game were magnified. Personally, I think Woodson should get more credit for paving the way for those that immediately followed him. In fact, I think his best argument for the HOF is something like the following: Woodson is to Reed what Brazile was LT, However, it is clear that the shadow cast by Reed (especially), Polamalu, and Dawkins is long and dark.
Well this is what I said: lol
“Ray Lewis is a gimme along with Brian Urlacher IMO. Can’t wait to see Moss go in before Owens. LOL Great fodder for the sports shows. Maybe wishful thinking. lol Both will definitely go in by 2019 Lynch should finally be in this year. I loved watching him hit folks. Jacoby will probably be in too. Have to have more than one Hog in the HOF. I think Alan Faneca will make it. That’s five and as for the Seniors I don’t give a hoot because it will be the same old song with Kramer and Robinson getting snubbed.
Really glad for Kramer but my God it’s sad he’s in such bad shape. Could of let him in 10 years ago so he could of enjoyed more. I hope he makes it to the Induction. They’re going to do the same thing to Johnny Robinson. The clock is ticking. I have very little respect for the Senior selectors. Where the hell is Drew Pearson and Chuck Howley? I watched Brazile his whole career. He was sensational along with Culp and Bethea. Renfro made the catch and the Oilers should of been Super Bowl bound. It used to be hard to when in Pittsburgh. LOL Miami did it as a undefeated team. How screwed up was that? lol They won because of a fake punt called by Shula and they were able to concus Bradshaw. He did comeback to make it close. I love Terry but he needs to get over how much better he thought they were than Miami. As far as the Modern Day I’ll say they got it mostly right. They needed to get Moss and Owens off the table. My only criticisim is I thought John Lynch should of made it over Dawkins. He’s waited too long IMO. Was that Jacoby’s last shot at modern? Strange to not see any OL players.
Justin, it looks like Safties are finally going to get their due while the old timers Johnny Robinson, Dick Anderson, Jake Scott, Cliff Harris, Steve Atwater and Donnie Snell continue to eat dust. For too long the position has been considered inferior to CB. I guess it’s over now. I can’t name one Saftey in the HOF before Ronnie Lott. Is Dawkins the 2nd ?!! lol